piebaldsparkle
Well-Known Member
English and Maths clearly an issue!!! LOL
Something Awful
- Thread starter Mollymillymoo
- Start date
Tia
Well-Known Member
Hey you're back! Me too...and I have eaten way too much....bleurgh!
You're right - I don't care whether Ladybug wears a hat or not. Not sure what she is going on about "defence"; I don't need to "defend" my actions PMSL! I don't wear a hat because I choose not to. Didn't I say that a few times or am I having Deja Vu?
You're right - I don't care whether Ladybug wears a hat or not. Not sure what she is going on about "defence"; I don't need to "defend" my actions PMSL! I don't wear a hat because I choose not to. Didn't I say that a few times or am I having Deja Vu?
piebaldsparkle
Well-Known Member
Never went.............Guess who's on the night shift????
Yes definately getting that Deja Vu feeling.........when you have no argument go back to your original point and repeat, only louder and slower!!!
Yes definately getting that Deja Vu feeling.........when you have no argument go back to your original point and repeat, only louder and slower!!!
Tia
Well-Known Member
So have you been on holiday or just not been on here recently at nights? Maybe I've just missed you; I've been going off to bed early for the first time in years.....seems to be giving me a bit more energy....what do you think?
gloster_image
Well-Known Member
I've skipped most of this post since my last one but Tia - yes you're clearly a very capable rider - but even the BEST rider in the world cannot prevent the possiblility of the horse tripping and falling over - no matter how sure footed and sensible your horse is there is always the possibility there. You've given good reasons in the past re weather where you live for not wearing a hat. However in the UK there is utterly NO good reason not to wear one other than VANITY. If someone can give me one then go ahead.....remember I said for the UK....
bensababy
Well-Known Member
I always wear one out hacking, but rarely wear one schooling.. i think its all about your own choice/chance.. you take risks everyday in life.
Solstar
Well-Known Member
i wear one when i ride solo- but for schooling red i dont bother. i dont wear a BP unless i have to- i.e for XC.
TarrSteps
Well-Known Member
It is a personal choice (although pretty much everyone here - even you, Tia
- lives in a country with Universal health care) and people are gonna do what they're gonna do. Arguing about it isn't going to change anyone's mind.
However I think it's very naive to assume injury is always directly related to incompetance. I agree that skill and education are AT LEAST as important as protective gear but I don't really see the argument for then assuming it's stupid to take precautions against chance. It's delusional to think one can control all the variables, especially if one is "pushing the envelope" by doing inherently dangerous things. I've had horses trip and fall under apparently safe circumstances, I've had horses stung by bugs, I've had other people put me in danger so quickly I could not react . . .why is it silly to want to mitigate the potential damage from such encounters? Last I checked I didn't control the universe.
Having had 2 major concussions (both wearing a helmet - one on a horse going x-c, one on a known "fruit loop" that bucked straight into a wall and stood on its head as well as mine) I have no desire to have another and I'm glad I'm not dead/disabled from the previous ones. I do dangerous things with dangerous horses and I can't make a living from a hospital bed. And it's my intelligence, skill, talent and knowledge that keeps me safe. Seems sensible to protect my investment.
Risk management has as much to do with, oh, managing risk as it does with skill and of course that's on a sliding scale. And greater risk = less ability to control variables, by definition. OBVIOUSLY, if one cares about being safe - and doing a good job - it makes sense to manage as many variables as possible. If one knowingly takes risks in the pursuit of what one wants then is seems TO ME to control the ones one can. Other people feel differently. Obviously for many people the comfort factor of not wearing a hat is worth it (although mine is very comfortable) although I strongly suspect there is usually something else in play.
I'm always interested in ego with regard to riding. I think competition riders need a vast amount of ego and to a great extent that is demonstrated by the willingness to take risks in pursuit of an end. But I don't think it works the other way 'round - "superiority" is not demonstrated by taken risks that aren't essential to the end result. It LOOKS like that sometimes, especially if one is trying to impress the uneducated, but I can assure you the people whose opinions count never judge someone's ability on their choice to take UNECESSARY risks. Courage is facing risks and overcoming them with effort and understanding, not denying they exist.
Of course, one of the easiest - and most sensible - ways to manage risks is to stay within one's comfort zone. Don't ride at speed, jump big jumps, ride athletic, extravagent horses etc. etc., especially if your skills aren't up to it. The really dangerous stuff - jumping at speed, riding "difficult" horses etc. WILL often end in bumps and bangs, even when done well, so it makes sense to manage EVERYTHING one can - training, suitability, knowledge AND protection. Good instruction, self-knowledge, honesty and good sense are, in my opinion, more important than wearing a helmet. But NOT wearing a helmet doesn't mean one has those things, it may only mean one is deluded. (Nothing personal but unawareness of the risks involved in horses IS often part of ignorance.) Wearing a helmet is so easy and a PROVEN way to lessen risk, why would one not do it? Isn't having safe, effective standard equipment part of what makes a good horseman?
But again, if one has never felt the hand of fate, one has been lucky not just smart. All sorts of people die everyday from risks they could have avoided but far more often it's a combination of factors, more not taking precautions against the things in life we cannot control. To make an extreme - obscene - comparison, does someone who dies of an illness that could have been cured if they went to a doctor die of the illness or on their own actions?
However I think it's very naive to assume injury is always directly related to incompetance. I agree that skill and education are AT LEAST as important as protective gear but I don't really see the argument for then assuming it's stupid to take precautions against chance. It's delusional to think one can control all the variables, especially if one is "pushing the envelope" by doing inherently dangerous things. I've had horses trip and fall under apparently safe circumstances, I've had horses stung by bugs, I've had other people put me in danger so quickly I could not react . . .why is it silly to want to mitigate the potential damage from such encounters? Last I checked I didn't control the universe.
Having had 2 major concussions (both wearing a helmet - one on a horse going x-c, one on a known "fruit loop" that bucked straight into a wall and stood on its head as well as mine) I have no desire to have another and I'm glad I'm not dead/disabled from the previous ones. I do dangerous things with dangerous horses and I can't make a living from a hospital bed. And it's my intelligence, skill, talent and knowledge that keeps me safe. Seems sensible to protect my investment.
Risk management has as much to do with, oh, managing risk as it does with skill and of course that's on a sliding scale. And greater risk = less ability to control variables, by definition. OBVIOUSLY, if one cares about being safe - and doing a good job - it makes sense to manage as many variables as possible. If one knowingly takes risks in the pursuit of what one wants then is seems TO ME to control the ones one can. Other people feel differently. Obviously for many people the comfort factor of not wearing a hat is worth it (although mine is very comfortable) although I strongly suspect there is usually something else in play.
I'm always interested in ego with regard to riding. I think competition riders need a vast amount of ego and to a great extent that is demonstrated by the willingness to take risks in pursuit of an end. But I don't think it works the other way 'round - "superiority" is not demonstrated by taken risks that aren't essential to the end result. It LOOKS like that sometimes, especially if one is trying to impress the uneducated, but I can assure you the people whose opinions count never judge someone's ability on their choice to take UNECESSARY risks. Courage is facing risks and overcoming them with effort and understanding, not denying they exist.
Of course, one of the easiest - and most sensible - ways to manage risks is to stay within one's comfort zone. Don't ride at speed, jump big jumps, ride athletic, extravagent horses etc. etc., especially if your skills aren't up to it. The really dangerous stuff - jumping at speed, riding "difficult" horses etc. WILL often end in bumps and bangs, even when done well, so it makes sense to manage EVERYTHING one can - training, suitability, knowledge AND protection. Good instruction, self-knowledge, honesty and good sense are, in my opinion, more important than wearing a helmet. But NOT wearing a helmet doesn't mean one has those things, it may only mean one is deluded. (Nothing personal but unawareness of the risks involved in horses IS often part of ignorance.) Wearing a helmet is so easy and a PROVEN way to lessen risk, why would one not do it? Isn't having safe, effective standard equipment part of what makes a good horseman?
But again, if one has never felt the hand of fate, one has been lucky not just smart. All sorts of people die everyday from risks they could have avoided but far more often it's a combination of factors, more not taking precautions against the things in life we cannot control. To make an extreme - obscene - comparison, does someone who dies of an illness that could have been cured if they went to a doctor die of the illness or on their own actions?
aimeerose
Well-Known Member
WOW *speechless*
toddles of to school mare .................. with a hat on (woolly) .... its cold today
sorry, couldnt resist
*runs and hides*
toddles of to school mare .................. with a hat on (woolly) .... its cold today
sorry, couldnt resist
*runs and hides*
gloster_image
Well-Known Member
Cruiser - WOW well said even if it did take a lot of reading!
Capriole
Well-Known Member
yes, i always wear a hat. it gives me an excuse for having crap hair most of the time.
Tempi
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I answered no, although I nearly always wear a hat, there are times when I choose not to, just as there will be times when I choose to wear a hat that is not approved. I don't need to explain why.
I never wear a body protector, I don't have one (but I don't do jumping either)
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly the same answer from me.....
I havent read the rest of the post, but no doubt it goes on and on (as always) about why people should wear hats.........
I answered no, although I nearly always wear a hat, there are times when I choose not to, just as there will be times when I choose to wear a hat that is not approved. I don't need to explain why.
I never wear a body protector, I don't have one (but I don't do jumping either)
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly the same answer from me.....
I havent read the rest of the post, but no doubt it goes on and on (as always) about why people should wear hats.........
jesterfaerie
Well-Known Member
Yes I always ride with a hat on!
When I was 13ish I had a pony who was the most stubborn pony in the world, seriously. You had to really get after him to get him to do anything other than walk he was that bad!
I rode him up the field one day no hat, no saddle, just a headcollar - because he was the safest pony in the world, and for some reason he bucked me off (just before i was about to get off him to let him out of the field!) thankfully I landed on my arse and not my head.
That little pony didn't put any effort into anything, he was predictable, reliable and totaly bomproof but for some reason that day he had a funny turn, before going back to his usual self.
I do think many people know their horses inside out but there is nothing stopping the horse from having a out of character moment which could result in injury/death if the rider doesn't wear a hat.
I don't know about anyone else but if I chose not to wear a hat because 'MY head MY choice' and something happened to me and I became paralysed and had to have 24 hour care then I would DEFINATLY regret it.............would YOU regret it?
Surley if you feel you would regret not wearing a hat if something happened then that is a good enough reason to wear one in the first place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When I was 13ish I had a pony who was the most stubborn pony in the world, seriously. You had to really get after him to get him to do anything other than walk he was that bad!
I rode him up the field one day no hat, no saddle, just a headcollar - because he was the safest pony in the world, and for some reason he bucked me off (just before i was about to get off him to let him out of the field!) thankfully I landed on my arse and not my head.
That little pony didn't put any effort into anything, he was predictable, reliable and totaly bomproof but for some reason that day he had a funny turn, before going back to his usual self.
I do think many people know their horses inside out but there is nothing stopping the horse from having a out of character moment which could result in injury/death if the rider doesn't wear a hat.
I don't know about anyone else but if I chose not to wear a hat because 'MY head MY choice' and something happened to me and I became paralysed and had to have 24 hour care then I would DEFINATLY regret it.............would YOU regret it?
Surley if you feel you would regret not wearing a hat if something happened then that is a good enough reason to wear one in the first place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Capriole
Well-Known Member
plus, if i got damaged id have no-one to care for my gees
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
Well said Cruiser.
I just think its a bit selfish of those who choose NOT to wear a hat. It's NOT just them it would affect if they do sustain a bad head injury when they fall off! I say "when" because everybody falls off sometimes, even the very best. Get on 1/2 a tonne of animal and its sort of guaranteed! The family and friends of the injured person would be deeply affected as well. Why put them through that? It would make them feel so much worse if the doctor says "well had she been wearing a hat, her injuries would not have been so bad" - they'll then feel crap for not encouraging you to use one!
Agree Spangle - that's my excuse too
I just think its a bit selfish of those who choose NOT to wear a hat. It's NOT just them it would affect if they do sustain a bad head injury when they fall off! I say "when" because everybody falls off sometimes, even the very best. Get on 1/2 a tonne of animal and its sort of guaranteed! The family and friends of the injured person would be deeply affected as well. Why put them through that? It would make them feel so much worse if the doctor says "well had she been wearing a hat, her injuries would not have been so bad" - they'll then feel crap for not encouraging you to use one!
Agree Spangle - that's my excuse too
susan_w
Well-Known Member
Ha ha Tia. How refreshing.
I must say, that the only person who's head I care about is my daughters. I tell her to wear a hat all the time, and we are liveried at a big BHS EC, so the rules are that you have to wear a hat. But, my daughter is nearly 18, and I can only insist as much as I can. It is absolutely peoples choice to wear a hat when riding - personally, and IMO, it's foolish not to wear a hat, but surely people are free to decide themselves, and not be ridiculed for not doing it.
As far as I can remember on this forum, this has always been an emotive subject, and caused big differences of opinion, which I hope will continue.
I must say, that the only person who's head I care about is my daughters. I tell her to wear a hat all the time, and we are liveried at a big BHS EC, so the rules are that you have to wear a hat. But, my daughter is nearly 18, and I can only insist as much as I can. It is absolutely peoples choice to wear a hat when riding - personally, and IMO, it's foolish not to wear a hat, but surely people are free to decide themselves, and not be ridiculed for not doing it.
As far as I can remember on this forum, this has always been an emotive subject, and caused big differences of opinion, which I hope will continue.
vivhewe
Well-Known Member
If it's raining I wear my hat to poo-pick though
Lol! That wheelbarrow's a b*gger
Zebedee
Well-Known Member
QR.
I've skipped through this. Personally I couldn't give a toss who wears a hat & who doesn't. Its the friends & families left wiping the bums of the idiots who were selfish enough to put them in that position that I feel sorry for................
I've skipped through this. Personally I couldn't give a toss who wears a hat & who doesn't. Its the friends & families left wiping the bums of the idiots who were selfish enough to put them in that position that I feel sorry for................
TarrSteps
Well-Known Member
Hey, people can do what they like, I was merely defending MY opinion.
And, as I said, wearing a hat is NO defence for doing all sorts of other dumb, dangerous things, ESPECIALLY if the horse is put at risk as well. I'm personally amazed at the number of people who don't seem to consider good instruction/education from an experienced, knoweldgeable, successful horseman an essential part of riding. Knowing what you're doing and getting help when you don't is far more likely to mean never having to "use" your hat . . . now THAT'S a minority view here apparently.
And, as I said, wearing a hat is NO defence for doing all sorts of other dumb, dangerous things, ESPECIALLY if the horse is put at risk as well. I'm personally amazed at the number of people who don't seem to consider good instruction/education from an experienced, knoweldgeable, successful horseman an essential part of riding. Knowing what you're doing and getting help when you don't is far more likely to mean never having to "use" your hat . . . now THAT'S a minority view here apparently.
Tia
Well-Known Member
As always Cruiser, excellent and well written posts
.
I completely agree with you, and if everyone wrote with the same clarity and inoffensive manner as you, then this thread would be about 3 pages long
.
Of course wearing a hat is good sense, of course making risk assessements and taking sensible precautions is paramount in a sport such as horse-riding; that isn't in question. Both yours and Dreckly's comments were worthy of a cheer.....I've just been here too long, seen this conversation go round and round and round.....and it always ends up the same way; most of the hatters can't help themselves but to make snide remarks about the non-hatters - I felt it was time to even things up.....to see how they like being called names. It can get a bit tedious on here sometimes; see I really don't care what folks think of me (sticks and stones and all that) but I do have to chuckle when you see the reactions in response to the minority retaliating.
I completely agree with you, and if everyone wrote with the same clarity and inoffensive manner as you, then this thread would be about 3 pages long
Of course wearing a hat is good sense, of course making risk assessements and taking sensible precautions is paramount in a sport such as horse-riding; that isn't in question. Both yours and Dreckly's comments were worthy of a cheer.....I've just been here too long, seen this conversation go round and round and round.....and it always ends up the same way; most of the hatters can't help themselves but to make snide remarks about the non-hatters - I felt it was time to even things up.....to see how they like being called names. It can get a bit tedious on here sometimes; see I really don't care what folks think of me (sticks and stones and all that) but I do have to chuckle when you see the reactions in response to the minority retaliating.
vivhewe
Well-Known Member
Well written
Tia
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
so come on then, who was the one person that said "too good at riding to not need a hat" i am dying to know, im sure we all have our suspicions...............
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL!! You might find, if you add up all the votes that only 23 people voted "no" however there are an extra 2 votes in the reasons why not - hence that implies that perhaps a couple of the people who voted "yes" may just have been larking around?
You seem to have an incredibly suspicious mind - this is about the 10th time you've made comments about how "we all have our suspicions" LOL!!
Well "we all" don't, because "we" are not all remotely interested in what others do.....but if you wish to share your own suspicions with us, it might be entertaining.....at least for perhaps a nanosecond.
so come on then, who was the one person that said "too good at riding to not need a hat" i am dying to know, im sure we all have our suspicions...............
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL!! You might find, if you add up all the votes that only 23 people voted "no" however there are an extra 2 votes in the reasons why not - hence that implies that perhaps a couple of the people who voted "yes" may just have been larking around?
You seem to have an incredibly suspicious mind - this is about the 10th time you've made comments about how "we all have our suspicions" LOL!!
Well "we all" don't, because "we" are not all remotely interested in what others do.....but if you wish to share your own suspicions with us, it might be entertaining.....at least for perhaps a nanosecond.
charlie76
Well-Known Member
Its the rule on our yard that everyone has to wear a hat when riding and since the sueing incident where the young girl got kicked in the field we also insist that any helper on junior livery wears one when catching, leading and turning out.
Liveries and staff over the age of 18 yrs are asked to sign a disclaimer if they do not wish to wear one. This has been done on the advice of our insurance company.
I always where a hat when riding,lunging and long reining and I wear a beagler when competing BD( although it does feel wierd)
I personally cannot see a reason not to wear one, it takes 2 secs to put it on and once you are riding you forget you are wearing it.
I agree, if you get hot and sweaty then you have hat hair but so what , put a baseball cap on.
Can anyone who doesn't wear one( and thats up to you) please give reasons why? Its it the look, the heat, the inconvience?
I also have a friend who was kicked in the head, she lost her eye- very attractive.
I also know a teenager, experienced rider, who was hacking her VERY quiet horse in a field in a quiet canter, she had owned the horse for years. It tripped in a rabbit hole and fell over onto her, she wasn't wearing a hat, she was killed instantly from a head injury, her father never forgave himself.
Also, it might not worry people being killed by a head injury but just imagine being in a wheelchair for the rest of your life watching some one else do what you loved doing but no longer can- thats what I worry about.
Liveries and staff over the age of 18 yrs are asked to sign a disclaimer if they do not wish to wear one. This has been done on the advice of our insurance company.
I always where a hat when riding,lunging and long reining and I wear a beagler when competing BD( although it does feel wierd)
I personally cannot see a reason not to wear one, it takes 2 secs to put it on and once you are riding you forget you are wearing it.
I agree, if you get hot and sweaty then you have hat hair but so what , put a baseball cap on.
Can anyone who doesn't wear one( and thats up to you) please give reasons why? Its it the look, the heat, the inconvience?
I also have a friend who was kicked in the head, she lost her eye- very attractive.
I also know a teenager, experienced rider, who was hacking her VERY quiet horse in a field in a quiet canter, she had owned the horse for years. It tripped in a rabbit hole and fell over onto her, she wasn't wearing a hat, she was killed instantly from a head injury, her father never forgave himself.
Also, it might not worry people being killed by a head injury but just imagine being in a wheelchair for the rest of your life watching some one else do what you loved doing but no longer can- thats what I worry about.
harrihjc
Well-Known Member
I always wear a hat, but only wear a BP for XC, I find them uncomfortable and I tense up, not good for SJ or flatwork!
FRESHMAN
Well-Known Member
Very well said. Like others I also dont mind when people state with clarity why they feel another person should do something, especially regarding safety. I do object to slanging matches & name calling. At no stage have I suggested not to wear a hat. I dont even ride much these days. With regards to my son I made it a rule that he did not ride without one up to the age of 18. But from that point on I can not force him to. Fortunately 99% of the time he puts it on. Always when riding a young or difficult horse. I do understand that when riding up to 10 horses a day in hot weather it can be uncomfortable. My point is. I actually agree that you should wear a hat with harness at all times. BUT I firmly believe that everyone is allowed freedom of choice, without facing a slanging match.
spaniel
Well-Known Member
QR whilst I agree totally that its down to personal choice I would always urge someone deciding whether or not to wear a hat to do so having seen a number of very nasty accidents in both hat wearers and non wearers.
Theres nothing wrong with healthy debate what I am finding distasteful about this particular thread is the obvious goading thats being used to give some people some sort of perverse pleasure.
Had the sarcastic and snipey posts been made by a newbie they would have been pilloried and hounded away from here very quickly.
Double standards. Safety is something that many of us take very seriously, some of us taking more steps to protect that than others. The fact that those who choose to wear hats are basically being told we have crap horses and are crap riders because of that is really taking things too far.
Bear in mind also that what is said on these open forums 'may' influence some people to discard their hats as well as those who would make a decision to wear one.
Theres nothing wrong with healthy debate what I am finding distasteful about this particular thread is the obvious goading thats being used to give some people some sort of perverse pleasure.
Had the sarcastic and snipey posts been made by a newbie they would have been pilloried and hounded away from here very quickly.
Double standards. Safety is something that many of us take very seriously, some of us taking more steps to protect that than others. The fact that those who choose to wear hats are basically being told we have crap horses and are crap riders because of that is really taking things too far.
Bear in mind also that what is said on these open forums 'may' influence some people to discard their hats as well as those who would make a decision to wear one.
LusoLover
Well-Known Member
I know I'm getting boring as I put this on everytime this subject comes up. But a fatal accident happened on our yard a little while back and continues to affect all of us terribly, particularly the person who was with my friend when the accident happened. Freak accidents can happen and I'm afraid I don't buy the whole my horse is so safe arguement. My old pony was absolutley bombproof, as any horse ever can be, yet when a farmer decided to suddenly put up electric fencing on a bridleway and my pony got caught up in it, funnily enough he had a fruit loop and I ended up getting my fot caught in the stirrup and dragged. Luckily all I ended up with was a fractured foot and bruises, it could have been a lot worse. Since then I always use safety stirrups as well as wearing a hat.
I am a big believer in informed and logical personal choice. Whilst you may not consider your own safety then please bear in mind the impact on those around you.
I am a big believer in informed and logical personal choice. Whilst you may not consider your own safety then please bear in mind the impact on those around you.
Tia
Well-Known Member
There was NO healthy debate going on......hatters were blatently telling non-hatters that they were clearly idiots, had no brain cells and were stupid fools.... I think you'll find that was the initial goading.....
. Quite simply, I retaliated and yep you're absolutely spot-on, I did enjoy it.
PS. If you read my posts again, I actually said that some people are just incapable of riding......whether they wear hats or not!
PS. If you read my posts again, I actually said that some people are just incapable of riding......whether they wear hats or not!
grandmaweloveyou
Well-Known Member
god this has brightened my day, but tia, one question: did you fall off since last week because in a poll and a post last week you clearly stated "ive only fallen off twice in 40 years" (probably as per another post of yours, you dont tolerate bucking/rearing or naughty behaviour as all your horses are so well trained by you and respect you and perfect etc) and in this thread i note that youve stated that youve "fallen off three times in 40 years"? hope it wasnt too bad a fall, especially without a hat on
.....just had to get my ten cents in.
.....just had to get my ten cents in.Tia
Well-Known Member
I've jumped off .... never too sure whether that counts off as falling or baling out. What do you think? How would you class it?
Thank you so much for your kindness - you'll be pleased to know that no I've never hurt myself
.
Thank you so much for your kindness - you'll be pleased to know that no I've never hurt myself