Sore after trim for how long?

[Hormonal Filly]

Before you bag the EP and place the blame on them, you said your horse hadn’t been trimmed for 8 weeks? And the EP dealt with the flares and overgrown bars?

She had an operation so was on total box rest for 4 weeks of those and actually didn’t grow much foot at all because she did so much in hand walking after.

She was booked in originally for 6 weeks but EP was unable to get to us so pushed it back to 8 weeks, always saw her every 6-7 weeks because that’s what the EP recommended, although she has never grown foot massively quickly.

 

[Peglo]

Before you bag the EP and place the blame on them, you said your horse hadn’t been trimmed for 8 weeks? And the EP dealt with the flares and overgrown bars?

8 weeks is too long to go before trimming. The trimmer would have wanted to leave the hooves neat and tidy but probably had to change angles, bring the toe right back, bring the heels back as well as deal with flares and overgrown bars. This is a lot and will change the way the hoof lands significantly as well as most likely have compensatory changes right up the limb.

wether 8 weeks is too long or not, I don’t think the trimmer should be trying or doing major changes in one trim. They should’ve come back every week and gradually made small changes if need be. Maybe twice a week.
If the change is so much to make compensatory movements then they have done harm, not any good in trying to make so much changes in one trim.
If it’s going to make the horse lame they shouldn’t be doing it. IMO

 

[ycbm]

Also there's no suggestion that the bars were overgrown. Some horses need their bars taken down to sole level, some horses need the bracing they provide. There's no point in removing bars on a comfortable horse.
.

 

[Tiddlypom]

8 weeks is too long to go before trimming. The trimmer would have wanted to leave the hooves neat and tidy but probably had to change angles, bring the toe right back, bring the heels back as well as deal with flares and overgrown bars. This is a lot and will change the way the hoof lands significantly as well as most likely have compensatory changes right up the limb.

But any competent trimmer or farrier will know not to do a drastic trim on an overgrown foot . To do so would be incompetent. The trimmer could advise the owner to book the horse in more frequently in future, but to hack away at an overgrown foot to make it look 'neat and tidy' would not be the sign of a competent practioner.

It took my farrier 5 months to gradually restore the grossly overlong toe/low heel that my EPA trimmer (listed as a member above) had left my senior mare with. Trimmer had been trimming her every 4-6 weeks for more than a year, and he had inherited feet that were in good balance from my previous farrier.

 

[Arzada]

I’ll call him today, but he did visit us last week to sign her off. (All went well, but lunged on surface) Stupidly I forgot to mention it.. but I know he’ll most probably say (due to conversations before) she’s probably sore due to being trimmed, and to shoe her.

If the trim is the cause of this lameness then the vet is also someone (along with the EP) who would no longer be on Team Arzada. The lack of logic from both is astounding.

 

[Bellalily]

Thank you @Tiddlypom, the EP is on the list.



Spoke to my vet this morning, he said to start her on bute twice a day for 2 days then one a day.. and see if she improves. If no pulses he highly doubts laminitis having seen her last week. He suspects she is just sore after a trim and might need front shoes.

She just needs a trimmer who actually knows what they are doing and the appropriate diet (which I’m sure she’s on). I’d be looking for a new trimmer. The UKNHCP ones I’ve always found to be spot on and happy to discuss diet, grazing, videos before and after etc. I’ve had two EP’s leave mine footsore, I now do mine myself and after six years have never had them footsore.

 

[Bellalily]

Before you bag the EP and place the blame on them, you said your horse hadn’t been trimmed for 8 weeks? And the EP dealt with the flares and overgrown bars?

8 weeks is too long to go before trimming. The trimmer would have wanted to leave the hooves neat and tidy but probably had to change angles, bring the toe right back, bring the heels back as well as deal with flares and overgrown bars. This is a lot and will change the way the hoof lands significantly as well as most likely have compensatory changes right up the limb.

Trim every 3-4 weeks if you want to maintain quality barefoot hooves. Find out what is causing the flares. Do a course yourself so you at least have some knowledge. Maybe even get confident enough to rasp in between trims if you are having flare issues.

If nothing else - there is an excellent FB group named Hoof Rehabilitation that has EP and farriers that post great insights that you can learn from.

Agree 8 weeks is way too long. I do mine every fortnight, but that’s also because of my useless hands which can’t cope with doing much. I also do fronts one day and hinds the next. Makes it easier for all of us who don’t bend quite so easily now

 

[Bellalily]

So she definitely doesn’t need her feet ruined by shoes.

 

[exracehorse]

Yes. I had it once with a barefoot trimmer. He was so sore for nearly a month. After that I never had him trimmed. He used to self trim on rides. And although the hooves didn’t look pretty. He was sound.

 

[Bellalily]

Mine never look great, but if they are sound, that’s all that matters.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

My old farrier was at the yard today. He always trimmed her and shod my last horses. I only changed because the trimmer was able to fit boots and a few boot companies said she wasn’t being trimmed as good as she could have been.. but she was sound! Stupid me for changing.

I asked if he would have a look at her feet. He said her toes have really been rasped/she has no toe and that would make sense why she’s footy along with grass coming through.

Going to give her a couple of weeks and see how she is. We do have a long stone/tarmac track I ride up a lot. So potentially put a set of fronts on if she is wearing more than growing. I have some boots (Flex) to use for now, but found them really slippy in fields last time and we have a long track and then open fields.

Feel annoyed at using the trimmer because I saw her rasping her toes a lot.

 

[Gloi]

Has she got long toe , low heel feet they were trying to correct?
Not that they should have made her lame doing it.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Has she got long toe , low heel feet they were trying to correct?
Not that they should have made her lame doing it.

No.. if anything high heels. She has got really good shaped feet (apparently)

Only other thing is she wore a lot of foot doing the inhand road work and then the trimmer just took to much, causing her to go footy. I’ve noticed trimmers like the ‘mustang roll’

 

[Gloi]

No.. if anything high heels. She has got really good shaped feet (apparently)

Only other thing is she wore a lot of foot doing the inhand road work and then the trimmer just took to much, causing her to go footy. I’ve noticed trimmers like the ‘mustang roll’

So long as the trim is outside the white line it should be okay. She might be a candidate for hoof armour if the lameness is from being too short or thin soles.

 

[Bellalily]

If she’s gone from being perfectly happy on all surfaces to lame, then I’d be looking at her diet first, then her trim. Do you have any pictures of her feet. Please remember that shoes will not make her sound or take away the root of the problem, they will just cover it up and leave it to fester or do more damage. She’ll still be lame.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

If she’s gone from being perfectly happy on all surfaces to lame, then I’d be looking at her diet first, then her trim. Do you have any pictures of her feet. Please remember that shoes will not make her sound or take away the root of the problem, they will just cover it up and leave it to fester or do more damage. She’ll still be lame.

She went sore the morning after a trim though? Sorry, not sure how that can be diet related. She is on a really bland diet, chaff and powder balancer recommended for barefoot which she’s been on for almost 2 years. She is a lot better than she was, walking much better on hard surfaces now but he also noticed she’s had a lot taken from the backs.

I don’t want her to be uncomfortable in work, especially if she’s wearing more foot than growing it.

 

[ycbm]

If she’s gone from being perfectly happy on all surfaces to lame, then I’d be looking at her diet first, then her trim.

If the change happened suddenly the day after a trim, then it would be a monumental coincidence for it to be the diet.

I might, if things don't improve, suspect that a trim which was too drastic has allowed some very early signs of grass related sole sensitivity to be seen, but it still says the trim was wrong.
.

 

[Goldenstar]

This may be the box rest and the trim .
Box rest is not a good thing it’s a necessary evil .

 

[Hormonal Filly]

This may be the box rest and the trim .
Box rest is not a good thing it’s a necessary evil .

She has been turned out during the day for the last 3 weeks prior to the trim (was in at night) so I doubt it was the box rest. Although I agree it’s no good for them.

@ycbm Pleased to say she walked the best in hand today, didn’t look sore at all. So hoping she’s turned a corner.

 

[Bellalily]

If the change happened suddenly the day after a trim, then it would be a monumental coincidence for it to be the diet.

I might, if things don't improve, suspect that a trim which was too drastic has allowed some very early signs of grass related sole sensitivity to be seen, but it still says the trim was wrong.
.

Except that if the diet needs tweaking, then it’s entirely possible that a trim would exacerbate any issues, even a correct trim.

 

[Bellalily]

She went sore the morning after a trim though? Sorry, not sure how that can be diet related. She is on a really bland diet, chaff and powder balancer recommended for barefoot which she’s been on for almost 2 years. She is a lot better than she was, walking much better on hard surfaces now but he also noticed she’s had a lot taken from the backs.

I don’t want her to be uncomfortable in work, especially if she’s wearing more foot than growing it.

It’s extremely unlikely that she’s wearing more than she’s growing, it’s a common myth. The more miles she does, the more the foot will grow. Even our endurance boys need a trim when they are clocking up over 100 miles a week, and if you’ve ever seen wild horses’ feet, you’ll know it just doesn’t happen.
It could be the pasture, and have you checked every ingredient of her diet? It’s possible the increase in sugar in the grass plus maybe a slightly too high sugar content in her diet has combined to tip her over the edge. Many of these so called “molasses free” feeds are not low sugar or even molasses or barley free, it’s extraordinary how they manage to get away with it.
I’d be going through everything with a fine tooth comb since she was so comfortable. Have you had her tested for EMS or PPID? Is she IR?

 

[ycbm]

Except that if the diet needs tweaking, then it’s entirely possible that a trim would exacerbate any issues, even a correct trim.

I don't agree that a trim can be correct if the horse walked into it sound and walked away from it sore.
.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I don't agree that a trim can be correct if the horse walked into it sound and walked away from it sore.
.

Completely agree, but it’s a great ‘it’s not my fault it’s your horses diet’ cop out from a trimmer .

 

[Landcruiser]

If the EP is a member of the Equine Podiatry Association you *should* have some comeback and back up if you have issues that cannot satisfactorily be resolved with your EP.

No names, no pack drill, but this is a list of EPA members.

Our Members - The Equine Podiatry Association

Register of Members The Association maintains a list of all members. Members are recorded according to class of membership. The Association publishes the section of the register which lists full members - those that are qualified as Equine Podiatrists and have met the association's requirements...

www.epauk.org

Those using or intending to use an Equine Podiatrist are encouraged to check that their EP is listed in the published list. EPs listed here are backed by the association’s rules and will be subject to disciplinary action where those rules are broken. Professionals not listed here do not come with that backing.

I've used, and sacked, two of these people in the distant past. Both crippled the same horse, in completely different ways. Both times he needed heavy remedial intervention - this was a long time ago now, before I knew what healthy hooves should look like, and was trusting these people to know what they were doing. The horse was almost PTS after the second of these people, but was saved by Imprint shoes - and by then finally finding someone who understood how to trim him.
The list isn't up to date, one of my ex trimmers stopped due to ill health a long time ago but is still listed.
Said horse is currently ancient but happy and sound and remains barefoot despite technically challenging feet and many body issues. He's been trimmed for the last decade by first one, who retired a few years ago, and now another trimmer NOT on the EP list. They were/are both superb, holistic, and I trusted/trust them implicitly. Knowing what I know now, being on the EP list is no guarantee of good hoof care. The best guarantee is KNOWLEDGE and learning learning learning what good feet look like and how to get them that way and keep them that way.

 

[Gloi]

I've used, and sacked, two of these people in the distant past. Both crippled the same horse, in completely different ways. Both times he needed heavy remedial intervention - this was a long time ago now, before I knew what healthy hooves should look like, and was trusting these people to know what they were doing. The horse was almost PTS after the second of these people, but was saved by Imprint shoes - and by then finally finding someone who understood how to trim him.
The list isn't up to date, one of my ex trimmers stopped due to ill health a long time ago but is still listed.
Said horse is currently ancient but happy and sound and remains barefoot despite technically challenging feet and many body issues. He's been trimmed for the last decade by first one, who retired a few years ago, and now another trimmer NOT on the EP list. They were/are both superb, holistic, and I trusted/trust them implicitly. Knowing what I know now, being on the EP list is no guarantee of good hoof care. The best guarantee is KNOWLEDGE and learning learning learning what good feet look like and how to get them that way and keep them that way.

I say that so often owners know the horse best and know what they need. However to get a trimmer or farrier that actually takes heed of what the owner says is often very difficult.

 

[dominobrown]

I would be highly suspicious that its diet etc, and at worst a horse should be comfortable a few days after a trim.
I use the TACT method and had great results and their Facebook group, especially the founder is really helpful. I do all such of 'awful' things, like have my horses turned out on a massive field full of grass and and I defiantly don't trim mine every 8 weeks . One horse was trimmed 2 or 3 times in a year, sound on all surfaces and eventing, show jumping and intense hacking and was fine. Had perfect feet, in fact I have had a few, including that one that passed 5 stage vettings with a mention of 'exceptional' feet from the vet.