Sore after trim

scats

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Polly was trimmed a couple of days ago and went immediately sore afterwards.
I took her shoes off (only had fronts) 2 years ago when she was going to be out of action for at least 12 months. She has coped well without, albeit she struggled on the stony part of the yard. Fortunately this is only a small area to cross every day so we have persisted.
She was trimmed 7 weeks ago and was a little bit worse over the stones for about a week, but fine on hard ground, no heat or pulses etc. This has been quite normal since the shoes came off.

She was trimmed a couple of days ago. Marched out fine to have her feet done, was trimmed and then put back in. I kick myself now because she didn’t want to move at first when I went to put her back, but as it was turnout time, I assumed she was being nappy (she does do this occasionally if she thinks it’s time to go out and not back in). Got her moving and she was a little hesitant walking back up the aisle, but again, thought not much of it. Rode other pony and then came to turn them both out and alarm bells as soon as Polly came out- very footy on the hard ground and crippled on stones.
Straight back into stable and onto a deep bed. Next day, raised pulse in 1 front and mildly felt in 1 hind. Can’t detect in other two legs. Standing and moving fine in stable, she can back up and turn etc.
Yesterday I noticed bruising has appeared in the front foot that has the raised pulse. Bruising is around the very end of toe on hoof wall. This morning, only a detectable pulse in that one front with the bruising.

Continuing to stay in on a deep bed. Thoughts? I have toyed over the last few months with the idea of putting fronts back on her (obviously won’t do this until we are past this blip and there’s a bit of growth).
Feedwise she has a small cup of fast fibre and a tiny handful of Mollichaff calmer to mix her vitamin supplement in. Normally at grass overnight and in during the day with hay. Wears a muzzle if she moves to new grass. Not overweight, but don’t want her to gain anymore.
 
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Green Bean

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Have you tried changing farriers? Or accepting that she is just more comfortable in shoes? Or shoes could be hiding an issue that is only exposed when shoes come off?
 

scats

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Thanks. Farrier is brilliant to be honest, done our horses for over 25 years and never previously had an issue with any horse, so I am wondering whether pony might not be the type to cope without fronts on. I’m quite happy to pop them back on, I have no real desire to keep her barefoot.
 

WandaMare

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Do you think the trimming might have bought out some laminitis, it can do that and the grass is so rich at the moment
 

Lindylouanne

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This would be ringing alarm bells if it were my barefoot pony as he is ultra sensitive to everything but has never gone footy after a trim. I would keep her on a deep bed with soaked hay, salt and magnesium and treat as though she has laminitis even if she doesn’t have it. Raised pulses are the response to an event and I would be concerned she is so sore after a routine trim especially as your Farrier has been with you for so long.

Edit to add as Wanda says the grass is rich and like rocket fuel at the moment and it doesn’t take much to tip them over into laminitis.
 

jnb

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Try not to put shoes back on....root of many evils! Can you boot her up & see if that stop the footiness? With pads?
If she's sore after a trim, IMO that points to an over zealous trim or the wrong type of trim for her, did farrier bevel the edges?
Ruari's feet are almost self trimming during summer (found that out in May!) as I'm doing more miles. I bought Scoot boots just in case I need them, he's comfortable and confident on 99.5% of surfaces (and the0.5% he's not, are enormous sharp rocks or stones and shod horses would be worse!)
 

scats

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Yep, I’ve been treating as laminitis and will continue to do so. If it is, it does seems to have been triggered by the trim.
 

Pearlsasinger

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It does sound like an over-zealous trim but I would keep her in until she is more comfortable and probably ring the vet, who may say that you are doing all you need to do, for advice.
 

Reacher

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I’d say even a farrier you know well COULD have trimmed her too short. Maybe thinking it may be more than normal wait between visits in current covid climate? Or she has low grade laminitis which the trim has exacerbated.

I had similar issue at my last trim (though not as extreme as you describe.). I’ve sent some pics to discuss with a vet who is hoof expert and waiting for his advice.
PS in my case I think the trimmer takes too much off the sole. Ycbm pointed in out in a thread I started. When I measure the depth of the collateral groove at the apex of the toe it looks very shallow. I therefore stopped hacking barefoot and wear hoof boots. Don’t know if this is helpful but I empathise!
 

Arzada

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Polly was trimmed a couple of days ago and went immediately sore afterwards.
She was trimmed 7 weeks ago and was a little bit worse over the stones for about a week, but fine on hard ground, no heat or pulses etc. This has been quite normal since the shoes came off.
What does your farrier say about her being worse over stones for about a week after the every trim?
 

Reacher

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Reacher no bf horse should have the sole trimmed or the frog for that matter. I really would be sacking the Farrier if that’s what he has been doing.
LL thanks I do take your point. I think the reason was to reduce leverage on the laminae. I am awaiting feedback from the vet then will discuss with the trimmer saying I don’t want the soles trimmed and see what response is. (I appreciate the feedback! - If you are curious the after trim photos are here
https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/barefoot-hoof-pictures-concerns.790911/#post-14320224 )
 

scats

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What does your farrier say about her being worse over stones for about a week after the every trim?
Because she’s very flat footed but absolutely fine on the hard ground, he’s not too concerned. I tend to just avoid the stony part of the yard for a week or so.
 

tallyho!

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"Flat-footed" is definitely a sign of low-grade laminitis or as vets call it sub-clinical. It does exist... it's the trim that brings it "out" thats impossible, but the trim can alter balance or expose pressure to the foot where it wasn't before. Especially if the sole was trimmed or the toe not trimmed enough. So many factors... personally I think your farrier is taking way too much off and no horse should be sore after a trim. Mine never are in fact they are usually better.

However, I think perhaps in this case the trim has shown you that there is some sub-clinical lami there and you're doing the right thing. Soaked hay but make sure you're adding in good minerals and protein some other way. Iron doesn't help so if what you're feeding now has iron in, don't feed it.
 

Tiddlypom

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One of my horses (with the flat Tb type feet) did this last year after the barefoot trimmer took too much foot off. She could hardly walk. He blamed the horse...

I did like the OP is doing now. Keep in, treat as lami. I have Cavallo boots which are invaluable in getting moving again once the initial soreness has worn off.

Do mention it to the farrier so that he is aware for next time.
 

Nari

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I'd ask the farrier to come back out and have a look. No he can't put back what's been trimmed off - if that's the problem - but I'd want his opinion that it is or isn't something else. Also it may alter his view on how she's trimmed next time, or he nay say that he'd rather she had front shoes on since you don't feel strongly either way.
 
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The horse has been sore after every trim for two years and the farrier doesn't have appeared to alter anything. Now the horse has had a trim and is even sorer than normal. I wouldn't use this farrier again even if there was another underlying issue going on. Just accepting that a horse is sore after a trim is wrong for any hoof care professional. Terribly wrong.
 

scats

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The horse has been sore after every trim for two years and the farrier doesn't have appeared to alter anything. Now the horse has had a trim and is even sorer than normal. I wouldn't use this farrier again even if there was another underlying issue going on. Just accepting that a horse is sore after a trim is wrong for any hoof care professional. Terribly wrong.
I don’t think I’ve explained it properly. Shes absolutely sound on hard ground after her trims (until this one) but we have an area on the yard that is really large stones/small rocks and uneven ground that we have to go across to get to one of the riding tracks. This is the only place she is a bit sensitive over after a trim. We don’t go that way often coz it involves going past a big pile of rubbish and a bonfire, but when we do, that’s where I’ll notice she’s a bit sensitive

Got her out tonight and she’s absolutely fine on the hard ground. Can turn no problem and striding out. Barely detectable pulse in that one front now. Didn’t venture to the stones. She’s back in the box again on a deep bed.

Cheers everyone. Missed call from farrier so hopefully catch him later for a chat.
 

Arzada

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I am a bit puzzled as to why everyone seems to think all horses should be able to cope with ANYTHING underfoot. If they can, why do we shoe at all?
Clearly if people are shoeing then not 'everyone seems to think all horses should be able to cope with anything underfoot'.
 
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I think that shoeing ridden horses is still the most common thing (at least in my area), going by the number of shod V unshod horses that I see out on the roads.
 

Gloi

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What is the farrier taking off the feet? I must admit that after my farrier left my pony sore after a trim several years ago I never let him do them again and have done my own since, without any problems.

I would treat her as low level laminitis though especially with the flat soles.
 
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