Sore feet, no obvs cause

[Jambarissa]

Big cob has never worn shoes, has fabulous tough feet according to farrier (10 days ago), no history of lameness or lami. Follows a barefoot appropriate diet.

Our farm track is very stoney and none of the horses is really happy but Big Cob always struggles for a couple of weeks after a trim and wears boots.

He's looking more uncomfortable on his feet over the rough parts of the yard these last few days (hard core at gate and crappy broken bits of yard) . Trotted up fine on smooth concrete, worked fine in the school and happily belting round the field.

Any thoughts? Is there any truth in thinking that spring grass= high sugar = sore feet? Or that it could be a lack of magnesium?

My biggest worry is lami, I am keeping an eye out but doesn't suggest it.

 

[MuddyMonster]

I would suspect low grade laminitis that isn't yet showing clinical signs, personally.

I would take him off/significantly reduce time off grass and soak hay to see if there is any improvement, if he was mine.

Being sore for a few weeks after a trim would be a huge red flag for me too. What does the farrier say about the increased sensitivity after a trim?

 

[meleeka]

Have you checked digital pulses? It’s a good idea to know what’s normal for him
anyway. Normally, if you can feel them it means they are up. In my (vast ) experience with laminitis, the easiest way to see if laminitis is brewing is to turn on a really tight circle on concrete. If he looks uncomfy or reluctant I’d suspect low grade laminitis.

 

[Honey08]

What’s your land like? Ours is especially wet this year and my horse is a little sore. The barefoot trimmer says his feet are a little soft and he has a tiny bit of thrush, which he’s never had before.

 

[ester]

For some it can definitely be a bit seasonal if it’s post trim though I’d be considering that, for instance if I trimmed franks bars he’d be sore for 10 days and they’d grow back quickly, so stopped trimming them

 

[Jambarissa]

He's been sore on our stone track after every trim for 10 years so I'm not really concerned about that. It's just him. Also stood fine for the farrier, no signs of discomfort there.

I have never been able to find a noticeable pulse on him and still can't.

He's currently out during the day on giant, hilly field with more mud than grass. Waiting near the gate from 3pm (comes in 6/7) so def still hungry. In overnight on 5kg of soaked hay which he finishes but doesn't hoover up the remains like he would in the winter (bodyweight nearly 600kg).

I've had several people observe him trotting up on hard grounds with no one noticing issues. I will try a tight circle. No issue with bringing the vet in but I know she will look for the same as me and can't imagine I'd get any diagnosis past 'maybe' so wanting some additional ideas to discuss.

I do not want to bring him in off the grass because he has moderate cpl and it's possibly more of a risk to his health than potential low grade lami. Also no one else in during the day so far chance he'll hurt himself. I could muzzle but the youngster takes them off the other horses and there are a lot of potential catching hazards on our pastures

 

[Highmileagecob]

Take a good hard look at the soles of the feet after the farrier has trimmed. Check if the hoof wall has been taken down to sole level all the way round the hoof. If it has, it is likely that your boy is bruising the frog every time he lands. Have a look at the Cavallo Barefoot trim video on line, which explains that you should leave a shallow collar of hoof wall around the back third of the foot to prevent this happening.

 

[Gloi]

You might find it beneficial to try Hoof Armour if you are sure it isn't laminitis but sole sensitivity.

 

[Jambarissa]

I'm stressing over potential lami now despite not having seen him since this morning when actually he was pretty normal.

First half of winter I was tearing my hair out over FWS, second half over mud/cpl issues on keeping in or turning out.

Honestly, why do we do this??

 

[Jambarissa]

Thank you everyone for replies. Thinking of looking for a proper barefoot trimmer to see if they have a view.

And I do have some hoof armour somewhere after seeing it recommend. Forgot I had it, worth a go.

 

[ycbm]

He's been sore on our stone track after every trim for 10 years

This really isn't right for any horse. The farrier should stop trimming the bit that's making him sore. There really is no excuse for a horse walking out of a trim less capable than it walked into it unless a medically supervised remedial trim is taking place. As Ester says, the most likely thing here is that he's taking off the bars, cutting back the frog or trimming the sole callous, and then it regrows and he's fine again.
.

 

[ester]

I think there’s a point you have to know to trust your horse/what’s normal for them re sore vs loss lami. Though I did once take my trimmer for a ride as that was the easiest day for her to see how he actually was (and she enjoyed the hack as we had v good hacking at the time )

 

[ester]

This really isn't right for any horse. The farrier should stop trimming the bit that's making him sore. There really is no excuse for a horse walking out of a trim less capable than it walked into it unless a medically supervised remedial trim is taking place. As Ester says, the most likely thing here is that he's taking off the bars, cutting back the frog or trimming the sole callous, and then it regrows and he's fine again.
.

Trying to slightly rock his heels back did it too , when he went back to mums for semi retirement I went through a long list of don’ts with the farrier….

 

[MuddyMonster]

I can only go by my own experiences but when my native is showing first signs of grass sensitivity, there's no heat/digital pulses, lameness or trouble turning it's literally 'just' finding rough or stony ground more difficult

I only say this, not to scare you, but because for mine, these are all pre-signs. When I've ignored them, we've had a lami flare up to some degree or other.

What's his weight like? Any fat pads? Puffiness above the eyes? Enlarged sheath? I'd be keeping a close eye on those too.

 

[Jambarissa]

This really isn't right for any horse. The farrier should stop trimming the bit that's making him sore. There really is no excuse for a horse walking out of a trim less capable than it walked into it unless a medically supervised remedial trim is taking place. As Ester says, the most likely thing here is that he's taking off the bars, cutting back the frog or trimming the sole callous, and then it regrows and he's fine again.
.

You are right. I knew him for years before I bought him and he's always been this way and have just always thought that's him, stick boots on for a week or 2 if we ride out.

My farrier is considered the best in the area but that's about his shoeing. I'll see about at least a consultation with a barefoot trimmer, will have to research.

 

[Jambarissa]

I can only go by my own experiences but when my native is showing first signs of grass sensitivity, there's no heat/digital pulses, lameness or trouble turning it's literally 'just' finding rough or stony ground more difficult

I only say this, not to scare you, but because for mine, these are all pre-signs. When I've ignored them, we've had a lami flare up to some degree or other.

What's his weight like? Any fat pads? Puffiness above the eyes? Enlarged sheath? I'd be keeping a close eye on those too.

I will take this inboard, thank you.

Weight wise he's the top of the heavyweight shape so is never going to lose the apple bum or flat back but he went into winter ok and has lost weight over winter, I was pleased with his weight going into spring. Could def be thinner but never any crest, eyes not filled, has defined hips and no obvious fat pads.

He has lost a lot of fitness because it's done nothing but rain for months! Can see his belly has dropped but he's a forward ride so should come back once I can get him out.

 

[Jambarissa]

I am going to work on the assumption it may well be early lami sign. I'll assess his cpl tonight alongside his movement and try to decide which is more of a risk.

 

[Fransurrey]

Worth treating for thrush, too. It certainly won't hurt. My horse has been sensitive recently on stony tracks. I checked sensitivity of frogs and they're sore, so he has deep seated thrush again (the frogs look ok until you trim them, when you uncover pockets of thrush). We're going in aggressive this time, with iodine stuffed into the central sulcus. It's already starting to open out after a week. Mine lives out, so we're constantly fighting the wet - not helped by him visiting the shelter to take a pee, then stand in it...

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Because of the wet weather then dry alot of horses are growing a false sole which can make them sore, as potentially they are walking on the sole that is sticking out so worth having a proper look for that.

 

[Snow Falcon]

My previous barefoot mare had suspected lymes last year. She was seen by a vet several times and I had a lameness up after treatment. The weather and the lymes had affected her soles which were soft and soggy. I ended up putting shoes on her as we have very stony tracks and she was struggling, this was vets advice. I also used keratex to help harden the soles.

Personally, I think we may have to alter our opinions on horse care due to climate change. How many people have had their horses suffer with abscesses the past two years?

 

[Highmileagecob]

Abscesses - yep, tick. Just had one burst out at the back of the frog, and all four frogs are looking cracked and fissured. Stuffed with Field Paste tonight, and have been soaking all feet in dilute iodine all last week. Now the fields are drying to concrete. We just can't win can we?

 

[SilverLinings]

You are right. I knew him for years before I bought him and he's always been this way and have just always thought that's him, stick boots on for a week or 2 if we ride out.

My farrier is considered the best in the area but that's about his shoeing. I'll see about at least a consultation with a barefoot trimmer, will have to research.

It is hard when someone comes highly recommended but turns out not to be great (or just not right for you/your horse). When I moved here I got recommendations and chose the farrier who local people were waxing lyrical about. I had one shod horse at the time, who had never been footsore in the 6yrs I'd owned him. I put up with the farrier for two shoeings and both times the horse was footsore for a week, the second time I had to give him bute for 4 days and he was miserable. The farrier had all sorts of 'reasons' for this (basically it was somehow the fault of the horse and my management regime). I changed farriers, and since then I've spoken to a couple of the old one's clients about what happened and they said their horses are always footy after he's been, but it's ok because it's caused by [insert farrier's waffly excuses], and after all he's AMAZING. In >30yrs of horse owning and using a range of different farriers he was the only one who caused pain.

It can be difficult to see when someone who is supposed to be a qualified professional isn't doing a great job, or to question what they are doing. It is great that you are going to look for an alternative now that you know that what your current farrier has been doing isn't acceptable, I hope you manage to find someone who is able to keep your horse comfortable.

Regarding the current foot sore issue, I agree with the other posters that my prime suspect would be laminitis. The good thing is that if it is only showing on stony ground you have caught it early so it should be relatively easy to fix.

 

[I'm Dun]

I wouldnt bother assessing the risk of CPL vs lammi. Lammi kills. If they recover they take months to come right. Then they are always prone to it. CPL isn't going to go away, but keeping in to avoid lammi is by far the lesser of two evils

The grass that is growing is luminous green round here and I'd be worried about any good doer out on grass even if the fields look bare.

 

[Jambarissa]

I wouldnt bother assessing the risk of CPL vs lammi. Lammi kills. If they recover they take months to come right. Then they are always prone to it. CPL isn't going to go away, but keeping in to avoid lammi is by far the lesser of two evils

The grass that is growing is luminous green round here and I'd be worried about any good doer out on grass even if the fields look bare.

I don't agree here, he has moderate cpl with nodules. His legs are compromised and it's taken nearly 2 years for a biopsy site to heal which included a maggot infestation. [Note do not let a vet do a biopsy on cpl legs without a very good reason]. I've seen a difference in his legs even just this past fortnight with him being out more.

Of course if I was sure it was lami he'd be in and id get the vet to bandage. It just doesn't really look like lami.

 

[Jambarissa]

As an update, he came belting up the rough hardcore path in the field yesterday when I went to bring in. But then looked uncomfortable on the slightly rougher gateway hardcore.

I'm changing his management round, in during day on soaked hay out during the night on sparse grazing which should reduce grass sugar intake a little.

I would actually agree that it looks more like frog related soreness but i did mention that when he was trimmed and farrier said nothing wrong. It won't do any harm to treat for it so I will.

I texted my vet and she's on the next yard on Friday anyway so is going to come over for a look.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

My Arabi went really foot sore once my field started to dry up and his feet were so soft from the wet i think they were just sensitive, I kept him in with short periods of turnout for a while and then I used some hoof armour on the fronts, he was so much better the following day and has been fine since was back out as normal.

 

[Lois Lame]

It is hard when someone comes highly recommended but turns out not to be great (or just not right for you/your horse). When I moved here I got recommendations and chose the farrier who local people were waxing lyrical about. I had one shod horse at the time, who had never been footsore in the 6yrs I'd owned him. I put up with the farrier for two shoeings and both times the horse was footsore for a week, the second time I had to give him bute for 4 days and he was miserable. The farrier had all sorts of 'reasons' for this (basically it was somehow the fault of the horse and my management regime). I changed farriers, and since then I've spoken to a couple of the old one's clients about what happened and they said their horses are always footy after he's been, but it's ok because it's caused by [insert farrier's waffly excuses], and after all he's AMAZING. In >30yrs of horse owning and using a range of different farriers he was the only one who caused pain.

Love it

 

[Highmileagecob]

Would you like to post a photo of the soles of his feet?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

We have had one horse with recurrent abscesses in the last 2 years, while the other had a long-lasting, difficult to clear up skin issue. They were both resolved when we put up extra secure fencing so that passers-by couldn't feed them! The difference is almost unbelievable.

OP we once had 2 different horses go very footy when we fed NAF PinkPowder/Haylage Balancer. That took quite a bit of detective work, as the grass was very unlikely to be the cause, it was December.

 

[Jambarissa]

Would you like to post a photo of the soles of his feet?

I have been trying to take pics, much harder than you'd think!

I will get someone to help me. Vet was clear that she could look for signs of thrush, abcesses and soft/sore patches but beyond that she wouldn't be commenting much on feet.