sorry - controversial post - hunting and the welfare of the horse.

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moneypit1

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TBH i have not hunted before. Not that I was against it particulaly just haven't really had the horses to do it on. Even so, If a fox went to ground my 'sporting' instnict would be to leave it there, job done.

I have been twice (cubbing) in the last couple of weeks, with a frsh open mind.

It is definately NOT FOR ME judging on what I have witnessed by two separeate hunts in as many weeks. The first was uneventful. Lots of standing around and the frantic activiity which must be be bad for the horses. I witnessed the hunt master whipping his horse around the head because "it would not ride" up a steep bank. Not nice.

A week later and a different hunt. Heaps of pounding it along the tarmac road and then nothing for 15 mins. Suddenly a flat out gallop from cold, then nothing for another 5 mins. I took my leave and went home.

So, what is the attraction? Perhaps I missed something but I seriously went in with an open mind. Oh yes, a youngster kicked out at a hound. The hunt masters insisted the "horse was tought a lesson" and a vicious whipping ensued. Now I do not wish to appear controversial but what am I missing? A genuine enquiry. x
 
I have mixed feeling here. I have hunted "since the ban" as I didn't want to be chasing foxes. I have had a couple of really enjoyable hunts, but most were just as you described. "A lot of hanging round and then hell for leather" I was also a little worried about the ground we covered, sometimes very boggy and other times very hard and rutted and because of the "excitement" you can't really ask your horse to take it easy as you would out on a hack. Anyway, neither of my horses are up to hunting anymore, so for the time being I won't be going. Can't say I won't miss it at all as I did have a couple of very enjoyable days.
 
I've never hunted before either, but the excessive whipping doesn't sound good! That could well be down to those particular individuals though - having seen the vicious punishments some showjumpers give their horses on a refusal, I think it's safe to say that you get violent twonks in every discipline - I suppose hunting is no different.
 
How soon after the horse kicked a hound did it get a whipping, did it actually know why it was being whipped ? all sounds a bit unpleasant
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My horse kicked the horse behind when I was on a hunt. The horse she kicked had a red ribbon (As did mine) and had been up my mares bum for ages. I wasn't carrying a whip and was passed one by one of the huntsmen and told to give her a good thrashing. I refused as this was several minutes later. I explained that she wouldn't know why she was being hit now and was told that "She should have thought of that before she kicked"
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I felt quite uncomfortable after that!
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I think it depends on the hunt. Iv only ever been out with one pack in the 4 seasons iv been hunting. Iv never seen anything like that and i hav always enjoyed myself. I do believe that wat day of the week and wher the meet is dos make a difference to the people who com out and wher the hunt takes u. I pick which meets i go to wisely as i no some will envolve alot of road work and other will envolve alot of standing around. Cubbing is good to introduce horses to hunting, its not good to throw them straight in to the hunting field but i wod say that all the standing aroudn comes from it being cubbing. actual hunting ther is less standing around.
 
QR - I have only started this season and my impressions have been nothing like what has been described. I have not seen anyone being harsh with their horses - in fact I would say that the majority of those who hunt, maybe 95%, do so because they love to ride, i.e not ride to hunt like some of the hunt staff.

There is a lot of stop/starting but not like 0-60. The last one I went to I did not even get out of trot, mind you that was because I was helping to babysit a youngster.

I think a good hunting horse is priceless and a lot of time and care goes into their training to make them so. If you had to constantly beat a horse to get it to go, you would not have a good horse, simple. Equally if you were to gallop constantly on hard ground and tarmac, you would have no legs left on your horse.

In my very limited experience, a lot of horses love it. Some don't of course and just don't settle. The one's that do love it though are cherished by their riders. My horse who was previously in hunt service had not been for 2 years and took me out for my first ever time this year. Every part of him was telling me how much he was loving it. He constantly watched the hounds and wanted to be right up with the action. His ears were pricked and he was forward going the whole time (maybe a bit too much so!)

In relation to whipping a horse if it kicked a hound - I was not there so cannot comment if it was excessive. A horse must have manners though and kicking out at a hound could kill them. It is also very bad manners. They need to be told that it is unacceptable. it is no different to disciplining them that biting, rearing etc is unacceptable.

The attraction for me is watching hounds work, getting the opportunity to see parts of the countyside that I wouldn't ordinarily have access to and giving my horse a lovely time. I would not want to do it if my horse didn't like it.

Sorry you didn't enjoy it OP.
 
i dont hunt and dont like a lot of what i hear from those that do but tend to keep my thoughts to myself generally as im in the minority. not for me either
 
I have to agree moneypit - my sister and I went to a newcomers day after the ban. It was much as you said, stopping and standing around then off galloping. Had to say we got bored and left. Plus we saw some examples of the most hideous riding ever and this was by who I can only assume were 'seasoned hunters'. It was quite shocking. They certainly could have done with some lessons in how to jump a x-country obstacle!!! lol

Wouldn't bother going again.
 
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My horse kicked the horse behind when I was on a hunt. The horse she kicked had a red ribbon (As did mine) and had been up my mares bum for ages. I wasn't carrying a whip and was passed one by one of the huntsmen and told to give her a good thrashing. I refused as this was several minutes later. I explained that she wouldn't know why she was being hit now and was told that "She should have thought of that before she kicked"
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I felt quite uncomfortable after that!
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This is awful!! How can these be 'horsemen'??
 
Shoot me down now, but if a horse I was sat on kicked out at a hound then it would get a wallop. Same as if it kicked out at anything when I was sat on it or handling it.

Hunting normally involves quick runs and lots of standing around, unless you're out with draghounds.

The 'attraction' that you're missing out on is getting to see hounds work, riding across stunning countryside, being part of a community and having fun with your horses. Fit horses can cope with the changes in activity, provided they are well-looked after.

If you enjoyed some parts of it, then I'd keep going for another couple of days at least in full season, as the day you have is hugely dependent upon the country you're hunting that day so you may find meets where you don't have much standing around.
 
As said in the posts further up than mine, a lot of the standing round comes from it being cubbing season, once the open meet starts there is a lot less standing around.

People beating a horse excessively is unacceptable, but as also stated above, that depends on the person and the rider, its not just a hunting thing, happens in all sorts of discplines. However if a horse has kicked a hound or misbehaved in anyway it does need to be told no. Its unsafe to have a naughty horse out hunting.
 
To be fair, a good friend of mine who hunts twice a week asked me when i whinged about my experiences..."do you hunt just for the riding or for the experience of seeing the hounds work" and i had to answer "for the riding". I do see what you are saying but guess that I am not of the hunting 'ilk' as it was the riding experience I was after. I suppose drag hunting would be my 'thing', unfortunately there is no such thing in Devon.
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Yes, I guess it's a very different experience to what many people expect, as the common perception is that it's galloping and jumping all day but as you found out there's lot of standing around freezing your bits out!

How deep into Devon are you? If you fancy a day with more proper jumping, then one of the Somerset/Dorset packs might be worth looking in to.
 
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To be fair, a good friend of mine who hunts twice a week asked me when i whinged about my experiences..."do you hunt just for the riding or for the experience of seeing the hounds work" and i had to answer "for the riding". I do see what you are saying but guess that I am not of the hunting 'ilk' as it was the riding experience I was after. I suppose drag hunting would be my 'thing', unfortunately there is no such thing in Devon.
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Never really thought that some people like to watch the hounds work.
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I really wanted to go for the riding and I certainly would have enjoyed it more without all the standing around.
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I don't know of any drag hunts near us either
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I can cope with the standing around, then a gallop, and have a good horse that can cope with hunting style road work! I can even tolerate 'some' disciplin (SP!!) that people give to their horses, but it has to be given when needed, short and to the point. Then end of.
I respect horses with red ribbon and if they kicked out, it the other person for getting to closes' fault.
I rarely go out hunting, simple fact is its way too expensive! I know the rules and to be polite to others. But what really gets me, is the fact that it is so money orientated. I ride a small 15hh, she may only have a trace clip, I don't plait her mane I ride in a tweed and if iam lucky to go out, then I hack to the meet. I say good morning to everyone, and yet I still get looked at as if I shouldn't be there! Rarely will anyone come over to talk to me, unless my horse is one of the few that has jumped that huge ditch or taken on the hedge as supposed to using the gate!! Then they take a second look!! lol
However, if I had money, I would go - both me and the horse love it! - its a thrill.
 
QR Popsicle near you is probably Readyfield - depending where you are in Lincolnshire.

Nice lot, and I haven't seen any horse thrashed at any time.
 
Horses don't warm up with a quiet trot round their field and some carrot stretches before they decide to have a hooly! If something gets their wind up they are off from a standstill.

Most horses you see out hunting love it - those that don't, don't get taken, simple!

My boy has been once so far, and he had a grin on his face for days after! We'll be going again as soon as I get my box. But I can see that it isn't everyone's cup of tea, you do need a fit horse and to be prepared to go at the speed of everyone else.

I have never been draghunting but the main criticism I have heard is that it is done at a blistering pace with much less resting in between, and the jumps can be huge. I suppose maybe the ground is better as the trail is chosen, but I have encountered a fair few people who didn't like draghunting as it is so full on.
 
Maybe I've just been lucky, but I've never seen a horse beaten while out hunting.
Its hard to describe what I get out of it. I think its partly the unpredicability of it - you don't know where you're going or what's in the way. I've certainly jumped things out hunting I never would have in cold blood.
I don't do it any more, partly because of the cost and partly because my horse leaves his brain in the lorry - he really loves it but is a complete liability.

ETA - the stop start has never been a problem, but then my horse never stood still when we had a break anyway!
 
I wouldn't be too hasty to give up hunting after going out cubbing just twice. There will inevitably be a certain amount of standing around followed by more frenetic activity. The horses love it and it is a great way to fitten them and get them to think for themselves. I just love to see the hounds work and to be close to nature and I also like to social aspect of hunting.

With regard to the youngster that kicked out at a hound, it happens from time to time but it really is a big no-no and the horse did need to be taught that it is unacceptable or it could become a habit. The rider would be expected to discipline their horse in these circumstances, but the hiding does need does to be more or less immediate - no time to go off looking for a whip as one of the other posters described.

Sarah
 
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Shoot me down now, but if a horse I was sat on kicked out at a hound then it would get a wallop. Same as if it kicked out at anything when I was sat on it or handling it.



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I agree - my mare backed into a friends TB today and got a crack on the arse....she didn't do it again.
 
Hi Moneypit- Im sorry that you did not have such a great outing. Hunting can be a bit like that (stopping and starting) but remember that you dont have to follow in exactly the same way, (although I do appreciate that there is pressure to keep up especially if you dont know the area that well). Me and my mum never hammer around and if the rest of the field take off- we follow at a pace that we are happy with. This does usually mean that we are at the back but we are never far away from the action, we see the hounds working and we usually keep moving constantly more or less. On Saturday the field started to bomb off down a grassy slope. Neither of us wanted to gallop our horses down a bank
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, so we walked at out own speed (along with a few others), we caught up with the rest of the field 5 mins later when they had ground to a halt!
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Strange. I'm a showjumper and I'm actually sending one of my horses to a hunting home in the Borders on loan for the winter, to freshen her up and because she enjoys it so much and it will be good for her. She's a valuable horse and I would not be sending her away if I was worred about the way she will be treated. I've never seen this horse so happy as when she hunts, when I load her in the trailer at the end, she turns her head round in the direction of the hunt and gazes wisfully.

Your horse should be capeable of standing patiently in a group without kicking, fidgeting, barging, etc - if properly schooled. Likewise, a fit horse should be capable of a shorter or longer gallop. I find a particular benefit is teaching a horse to be more adaptable with its take off for a jump as out hunting they often have to jump from poor ground.

Last winter, I hunted with 4 different hunts to see what one I liked best and I never saw any of the actions you mention. Perhaps because its in Scotland. I would be mortified if my horse kicked, even if a horse was behind her, and would give her a couple of smacks. I also hunted in Ireland last winter and again saw none of the bad behaviour you described. I think you have just gone with bad packs. And I honestly think I might have been in danger of giving the huntsmand a row for whipping his horse around the head!

I think its a shame so many people have lost the great British tradition of being adaptable, brave riders with well mannered horses who can be relied upon to be well behaved in all situations. If you persevered, I think you would gain quite a lot from it as it develops certain skills which you don't develop in more contained settings.

Mind you, I could say much the same about my recent experience of a dressage test. Bored me to tears, loads of people scared of their horses, so many naughty horses, refusing to load, etc.. People scared to canter in the warm up arena etc.. Not my cup of tea.

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Lots of standing around and the frantic activiity which must be be bad for the horses.

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Why would that be bad for a horse? As opposed to being dragged round the BSJA or BE circuits week after week, being "schooled" endlessly by a novie but never hacked, etc, etc, etc? And hunting would be awful if you didn't get the standing around - the horses would be worn out!
 
QR

Really interesting post!

Like you I started hunting this season. If I'd seen anything like you've described, I would have hated it too and not gone back.

Perhaps hunts vary, but the one I have been out with has been fantastic to us. Mind you, I have only been out on queter weekdays, to meets chosen for me by the secretary. I've seen an awful lot of excellent horsemanship that I aspire to; and many of these people have been extremely welcoming, kind and moreover helpful - plentiful free advice from fantastic horsepeople!

They've also been great in allowing me to return until my horse has quietened down, and noone has had a go at me for "getting things wrong" which I obviously have. They have been lovely.

I know what you mean about some of the ground you cover at speed and otherwise, but to be honest my horse just loves it SO much, I figure that I could wrap him up in cotton wool, but that he wouldn't thank me for it.

I suppose too that if I think about it, the horsemanship I've seen on the hunting field has been spot on. Whereas I dislike going to shows (and even dislike livery yards!) for the vast amount of nasty treatment I seem to always see.
 
Very interesting post! Personally I would never hunt as I think its far too dangerous for both horse + rider (have known too many riders and horses that have had nasty accidents). As for mistreating horses, I think this goes on in any discipline, does it happen more in hunting? Maybe, they are a pretty tough crowd but I wouldnt like to put it on par with anything else. I wonder how many people that show in "hunter" classes have acutally hunted their horses....
 
A few top show hunters do hunt - you read about in H&H occasionally. Don't most of Louise Bell's working hunters hunt though?

Its very good for horses that are sensible enough to benefit from it - can get sticky horses going forwards and learning to enjoy themselves under saddle, and teaches them to think for themselves.

OP - you should have tried a couple of the hunts near me - they have to be the most over-cautious, careful, slow hunts around - gallops are rare and slow, the field is generally miles behind the huntsman and they hardly ever jump because its too hard/soft/frosty...
 
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