Sorry, how much? again...

[SatansLittleHelper]

Has he actually been tested for PSSM..?? It's a cheap and easy test to do and may help improve his work in the school if you know for sure x

 

[Red-1]

Actually nothing for an 11 yo horse that won't canter in the school after 18 months of retraining, because IME that is a veterinary issue that may be a biggie.

I'm afraid that, right or wrong (and of course no-one here has seen the horse), this is what most people would think.

If the horse were a really cheap one, I may have been tempted to have a sit to see what I could feel. I have untangled horses such as this before, but usually it is a vet issue.

 

[Goldenstar]

I wouldn't pay anything for an 11 year old that appears to only be able to hack on his own . Not a horse for me personally to have fun on .

I think this as well .
I also think it sounds like he’s not right , I would not touch him with a barge pole .

 

[Tardebigge]

I think you really need to ask this horse some questions before you consider putting him on the market, for the simple reason he might bounce back to you rather quickly if you haven't actually tested him yourself. 18 months of ridden work and not achieved canter in the school? It sounds almost as if you are letting him decide what he should and should not be doing. If you are not confident about jumping, can you get someone else to sit on? If I was viewing this horse I would expect to see him go through all the paces in a school, and if the vendor told me that cantering in the school was a no-no, I would walk away there and then.

 

[eahotson]

Perhaps look at this another way.What sort of home would you like for him?

 

[ycbm]

If this is the one with suspected PSSM then the resale value is zero. The canter may well improve over time, but they can deteriorate at any time. Its a degenerative condition and they dont make old bones with type 2. Most dont even stay sound and in a normal level of work sadly

I'm seeing this sort of thing stated about PSSM a lot these days. Can you tell me where you are getting the "most don't stay sound" from?

I suspect what people are talking about is "most that have been formally diagnosed" and I wonder if even that is true, and it isn't just "most whose problems are bad enough to seek help on social media". The condition is so rife that I'd bet there are plenty of horses trogging along out there with a milder or non- symptomatic version of it.

I had one a few years back, diagnosed on his response to treatment, and in the 3 years I had him he didn't degrade at all physically, quite the reverse, and he improved masses mentally.

There are records centuries back of "Monday morning disease" which seem to me to be clearly talking about PSSM.

I think there's a danger at the moment of statements like this becoming an accepted truth with no evidence and horses with easily managed PSSM becoming impossible to sell. Much like Professor Knottenbelt destroyed the value of horses with sarcoids by recording a video saying that a horse with sarcoids has no value.

PSSM is widespread, I would hate to see good horses written off wholesale when they are asymptomatic or at the lower end of what is a spectrum disease.
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[ycbm]

SE, sadly in the current market I've seen horses openly described as unable to canter in a school sell, so he has value.

But I am with everyone else who doesn't think you should sell this horse until you've got an answer as to whether he will or won't and can or can't canter in a school, and if he won't/can't, then why.
.

 

[Dexter]

Personally, while I wouldn’t choose to knowingly buy a horse with PSSM, as he seems like he is a happy hacker (should he have that), I don’t think it would put people off in the current market, as safe happy hackers aren’t very easily found.
if he doesn’t have PSSm, I think you would easily get £6500-£8000 in the current market.
with it, probably nearer £3500/£4000.

No one who knows anything about PSSM would take one on for free. Especially type 2.

 

[Dexter]

I'm seeing this sort of thing stated about PSSM a lot these days. Can you tell me where you are getting the "most don't stay sound" from?

I suspect what people are talking about is "most that have been formally diagnosed" and I wonder if even that is true, and it isn't just "most whose problems are bad enough to seek help on social media". The condition is so rife that I'd bet there are plenty of horses trogging along out there with a milder or non- symptomatic version of it.

I had one a few years back, diagnosed on his response to treatment, and in the 3 years I had him he didn't degrade at all physically, quite the reverse, and he improved masses mentally.

There are records centuries back of "Monday morning disease" which seem to me to be clearly talking about PSSM.

I think there's a danger at the moment of statements like this becoming an accepted truth with no evidence and horses with easily managed PSSM becoming impossible to sell. Much like Professor Knottenbelt destroyed the value of horses with sarcoids by recording a video saying that a horse with sarcoids has no value.

PSSM is widespread, I would hate to see good horses written off wholesale when they are asymptomatic or at the lower end of what is a spectrum disease.
.

Read the research. Type 2 is a degenerative disease. It can be nearly impossible to manage.

The coloured you had was sold due to his explosive behaviour and now you have lost track of him. Id imagine that means nothing good. Even if it does, he was symptomatic.

The common opinion on here is to give a PSSM horse some vitamin e and it will all be fine. For some type 1s that can be the case, although its certainly not best practice. It barely scratches the surface of type 2s.

If type 1 is picked up early and managed well then it usually prevents any associated issues, but often its not. Its starting to become clear just how much damage it does structurally if not managed, although this isnt published yet. Type 2 degenerates.

These horses dont have a resale value and shouldnt be getting sold on. It's difficult as the peer reviewed research isnt out there yet, but it is coming. Whether that will encourage wide spread testing and removal of all affected horses from the gene pool, I doubt it sadly. Its rife in warmbloods and TBs and its just accepted by people that some are difficult to ride and manage and that wastage is high.

 

[ycbm]

Read the research. Type 2 is a degenerative disease. It can be nearly impossible to manage.

Yes it "can" be. But I don't think we have any evidence to suggest anything other than that it's a spectrum disease. It's a disease very much in focus at the moment and all the information available is about the difficult cases, because those are the ones people are asking for help with.

There are thousands of horses out there whose owners probably don't even realise they have it, it can be completely asymptomatic, or very mild.

I think we need a lot more research before it's right to write off every horse with PSSM as having no value.

The coloured you had was sold due to his explosive behaviour and now you have lost track of him. Id imagine that means nothing good. Even if it does, he was symptomatic.

This isn't true. I would never sell an explosive horse, I would put it down if I didn't want to keep it. I despise people who sell unsafe horses.

He was sold because he was a horse who never relaxed and I didn't find him a pleasure to ride. In three years of ownership he bucked me off twice, once newly broken when I tried to make him go forward, before I adjusted his diet. The second time when he got his legs muddled up on a downward canter transition. He was not an explosive horse and his owner won dressage competitions with him after I sold him and wrote to me saying he was her horse of a lifetime.
.

 

[maya2008]

I have a pssm mare - I then chose the next two in part because they had been tested clear by the breeder. I love my pssm pony (and she does actually have huge value to us as a reliable first ridden for a nervous child) but one in a lifetime is enough!

Get yours tested - it isn’t that expensive for the type one test...

 

[Identityincrisis]

Why are people making assumptions on this horse's soundness/health/riding suitability based on very vague points.

Maybe the lack of school cantering is due to the op taking it very slowly on a horse who has had a couple of issues, i would commend her for that. She has said he is happily cantering out now, and is close to being ready to canter in an arena, maybe the horse's existing saddle caused poor muscle issues which take a long time to rectify.

Berating someone for selling a lame/pssm horse when there is little evidence other than a few very vague, typed words is not on!

 

[ihatework]

Why are people making assumptions on this horse's soundness/health/riding suitability based on very vague points.

Maybe the lack of school cantering is due to the op taking it very slowly on a horse who has had a couple of issues, i would commend her for that. She has said he is happily cantering out now, and is close to being ready to canter in an arena, maybe the horse's existing saddle caused poor muscle issues which take a long time to rectify.

Berating someone for selling a lame/pssm horse when there is little evidence other than a few very vague, typed words is not on!

Semi agree.

The question was how much would the horse fetch (which is a different question to what is it worth to ‘me’). Which is a really difficult question to answer given we only have the OPs description. From what they say and the posting history on the horse there are some really big red flags.

Honestly, you couldn’t pay me to take the horse as described. But that isn’t the question. I can only give benefit of the doubt and assume the horse will pass a vet (personally I doubt it, but that’s not my problem).

An 11yo horse that hasn’t succeeded in being retrained over a period of 18 months, and with a 2 year period prior of doing nothing is a very difficult horse to find a market for, especially for money. Which isn’t to say he won’t sell for money but I fear for the horse, buyer and seller. He is, to all intents and purpose, an unfinished project, and would only be sold to someone that knows what they are doing for meat money.

If OP can play to his strengths (which seem to be a nice person and enjoys hacking) then that is most likely to be the greatest chance of a successful sale.

 

[Identityincrisis]

Semi agree.

The question was how much would the horse fetch (which is a different question to what is it worth to ‘me’). Which is a really difficult question to answer given we only have the OPs description. From what they say and the posting history on the horse there are some really big red flags.

Honestly, you couldn’t pay me to take the horse as described. But that isn’t the question. I can only give benefit of the doubt and assume the horse will pass a vet (personally I doubt it, but that’s not my problem).

An 11yo horse that hasn’t succeeded in being retrained over a period of 18 months, and with a 2 year period prior of doing nothing is a very difficult horse to find a market for, especially for money. Which isn’t to say he won’t sell for money but I fear for the horse, buyer and seller. He is, to all intents and purpose, an unfinished project, and would only be sold to someone that knows what they are doing for meat money.

If OP can play to his strengths (which seem to be a nice person and enjoys hacking) then that is most likely to be the greatest chance of a successful sale.

Agreed, but that could be said of SO many horses. I bought a young Arab from a dealer, he was moved on as wouldn't hack, had a small rear but 18 months on he is my dream, some wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.

I didn't read past history on this horse, just basing it on this post. But not everyone wants/needs a competition record, most horses, given time will do a good enough prelim or jump 80cm. A lot of people want a sane hack who they can potter on with and love

 

[ihatework]

Agreed, but that could be said of SO many horses. I bought a young Arab from a dealer, he was moved on as wouldn't hack, had a small rear but 18 months on he is my dream, some wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.

I didn't read past history on this horse, just basing it on this post. But not everyone wants/needs a competition record, most horses, given time will do a good enough prelim or jump 80cm. A lot of people want a sane hack who they can potter on with and love

The key difference is young v 11

 

[Spottyappy]

No one who knows anything about PSSM would take one on for free. Especially type 2.

However, some people will. My late mil mare had it, and mil managed it fine.
Its not even known if the OPs horse has it, and tbh I have never vetted a horse, never mind run a blood test for it on a prospective purchase so if I were unlucky and ended up with a horse who had it, I would manage it,

 

[tristar]

Of course there is more to the story - I haven't given a blow-by-blow account of the past 18 months. There is nothing sinister though which is what seems to be being implied and is quite unpleasant. I'm actually really chuffed with what I've achieved with him - he used to be anxious and sometimes aggressive, now he is a happy chap with one remaining issue that feels close to being sorted. I didn't have any specific goal when I took him on and he's turned into something I'm proud of and I think would make the right person very happy. What I'm getting from this is that I need to get the canter going before I think about advertising which is helpful - I'm as certain as I can be that he's worried and there is no physical issue. He just thinks something is going to hurt because it did in the past and so he's not that keen to try. I wish I was more confident jumping because I think a jump might 'trick' him into canter and then he'd find it was comfy. I'm a total wuss at jumping though.

try some say two raised trotting poles, then a small cross pole to pop and circle round on both reins, kinda wakes em up

 

[tristar]

Why are people making assumptions on this horse's soundness/health/riding suitability based on very vague points.

Maybe the lack of school cantering is due to the op taking it very slowly on a horse who has had a couple of issues, i would commend her for that. She has said he is happily cantering out now, and is close to being ready to canter in an arena, maybe the horse's existing saddle caused poor muscle issues which take a long time to rectify.

Berating someone for selling a lame/pssm horse when there is little evidence other than a few very vague, typed words is not on!

we had and 11 year old in who had never been cantered under saddle, he had an injury as a seven year old, he is fine now, quite normal, took about 6 months


i also commend her, only the one sitting on the horse can feel what it needs

 

[WispyBegs]

I think it would be wise to have the PSSM test done before even trying to work out a value for your horse.

In my opinion it would be unfair to sell a horse on without having the vet work done on a horse you suspect may have something degenerative... as this could quite possibly lead to your horse being passed from pillar to post which I’m sure is the last thing you want.