Sorry long post - sweet itch AND mud fever, really?

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Micropony

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So, Micropony (16h WB, but a bit smaller when I got him, and considerably smaller than previous horse) is 4. Imported from Holland as a 2yo, and has been at the same yard ever since. Came in to be backed and started last October, but prior to that had lived out 24/7. Land round here is heavy clay, and being on the outskirts of London, expensive, so all local yards have lots of horses on not-very-much land and it’s MUDDY. The fields he lived out in as a youngster were muddy, and if I want him to have any turnout over the winter it will also be muddy.

This summer, he developed sweet itch for the first time. He never had it living out naked and un-fly-sprayed as a 2 or 3yo. I had thought, in my ignorance, that only natives got SI, but apparently not. It’s been pretty mild as sweet itch goes, and at first I thought he was just a bit of an itchy horse. But the vet says it is indeed SI, and gave me this spot-on stuff for cattle to put on his mane and from the point of his croup down his dock, and prescribed SI rug for turnout. Does seem to be better, but whether that’s because the treatment’s worked or just that the midge season is coming to a close, who knows. Next year I’m planning to start Cavalesse and whack a SI rug on in March and hope for the best.

Then yesterday, I spotted a bit of mud fever on both front pasterns. Only a tiny amount and it wasn’t there on Sunday so looks like I’ve caught it early, and hopefully will be able to get on top of it fairly quickly. Hibiscrubbed, got the scabs off, and now he’ll stay in and dry until it’s cleared up. I’m making free with the Keratex powder and have ordered some mud socks. He never had mud fever living out 24/7 (different fields but the same clay soil) as a 2 and 3 year-old.

So my question is, is the poor horse just unfortunate to be susceptible to both conditions and have got a touch of mud fever before the SI has completely cleared up, or is there something in his management I should be thinking about doing differently? Without having a clue what management factors might be relevant, here are a lot of things that are probably mostly not. He’s working five times a week and he has two days off. Feed-wise he’s eating lots of hay and he’s having a couple of scoops of Kenwood Old Forage mix split over 3 feeds. He’s also getting some Brewer’s Yeast, which I added in an attempt to manage the itching, not that it seems to have made much difference. No behavioural issues - he is not fizzy or sharp in any way, a happy little horse, very eager to please, sweet under saddle and in the stable. His coat is shiny and he’s not under or overweight. Bedded on rubber mats and a medium-sized shavings bed (i.e. not deep litter or anything), and the staff do keep the beds lovely and clean. Turnout-wise, he goes out most days for an hour and a half with my friend’s horse who he loves. I know an hour and a half turnout a day isn’t what a lot of people would choose to do with their horses, but he’s seemed happy enough with it for the last 11 months, and unless I am prepared to move to a yard without the facilities and support I’ve got where I am, I won’t get anything better around here. From what I’ve seen there are other local yards that offer more turnout, but their fields are even worse mudpits than ours. I wouldn’t have bought such a young horse without the ongoing support of my YOs, who imported and backed him, and who are teaching me on him and continuing to train him separately as well. So moving to somewhere with beautiful green mud-free fields he can frolic in throughout daylight hours all winter isn’t a realistic option.

I can just deal with the SI in summer, and the mud fever in the winter, but if there’s a root cause for the both issues then it would be good to find it, and I guess pretty irresponsible not to. I had wondered if it could be something in his diet that he’s intolerant to, and had thought of stopping all hard feed and than gradually reintroducing something low sugar/starch and forage-based (maybe Simple Systems) so I know exactly what’s in it. But then I’m going to need to start feeding a balancer, which could have allsorts in. Or could it be a nutritional deficiency of some kind? How would I find that out? Someone has suggested blood tests to see if he is allergic to something, but I didn’t think that was how allergy testing worked?

So, wise and experienced HHO-ers, before I call my vet out (which for two patches of mud fever the size of 20p pieces feels a bit extreme), any advice? And have a medal if you’ve made it to the end!
 
What are you feeding him?
I used to have a SI horse who when cereal and sugar was removed form the diet, was no longer a SI horse. My current riding horse (Westphalian) has pastern dermatitis which could be mistaken for MF but is actually caused by diet and managed by making sure that she has NO wheat in any form whatsoever.
 
Neem oil is excellent to treat both- Red has only rubbed this year because of a lapse in application on my part (thought I had another bottle but didn't). Haven't used it personally for mud fever, as I apply pig oil and brush off the next morning to prevent it, but I've been told it's good.

Read somewhere recently that hosing legs off it the worst thing for mud fever (something to do with the cold and the bacteria) and that actually letting it dry. Also with SI you want to prevent not just treat- get the rug on him before spring hits (I no longer us a rug unless it's very humid) and keep it on until well and truly out of the summer.
 
I'd be feeding a very low sugar diet with a balancer with no iron, but high levels of copper and zinc. 40gms of salt and up to 75gms of brewers yeast.

My old horse went from chronic sweet itch to being out naked and itch free with a radical diet overhaul :) Copper and zinc are implicated in all sorts of skin/feet issues, as is salt. Cavallese is basically just B vitamins so if the high dose brewers yeast doesnt work, then it probaby wont
 
High dose of Brewer's yeast actually caused my mare to have huge weeping sores all over her legs, that was how we identified that her dermatitis is diet related.

Sorry I got lost part way through OP, just realised you detailed his diet. My advice is to cut back to basic grass and hay for a couple of weeks and see if he improves.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
What are you feeding him?
I used to have a SI horse who when cereal and sugar was removed form the diet, was no longer a SI horse. My current riding horse (Westphalian) has pastern dermatitis which could be mistaken for MF but is actually caused by diet and managed by making sure that she has NO wheat in any form whatsoever.
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Hmmm, that's really interesting, thank you. He has hay and Kenwoods Old Forage Mix. Label doesn't specify sugar content, but there is quite a lot of cereal in it (inc. wheat), and the label does confess to molasses. So if he has the same things going on as your SI horse and your Westfalian, it really won't be helping him!

Now what is pastern dermatitis? I thought it was a more scientific name for mud fever, but sounds from your post as though it's a different thing altogether. And does it seem likely that he'd develop it after nearly a year on the same feed? I know very little about allergies and intolerances, as I've never had any, and I've never had a horse with those sorts of issues.
 
AmieeT said:
Neem oil is excellent to treat both- Red has only rubbed this year because of a lapse in application on my part (thought I had another bottle but didn't). Haven't used it personally for mud fever, as I apply pig oil and brush off the next morning to prevent it, but I've been told it's good.

Read somewhere recently that hosing legs off it the worst thing for mud fever (something to do with the cold and the bacteria) and that actually letting it dry. Also with SI you want to prevent not just treat- get the rug on him before spring hits (I no longer us a rug unless it's very humid) and keep it on until well and truly out of the summer.
Click to expand...

Thank you, have heard good things about neem oil but it's one of the things I haven't yet tried.

I know people on both sides of the "great hosing divide", and the yard hose as standard. I could try asking them not to, to see if it helps. Am hoping that with mud socks I might be able to avoid the issue altogether if his legs stay clean and dry underneath!
 
My mare had been having Brewer's yeast for about 4 yrs when we changed brands and accidentally increased the dose, which sparked off the huge reaction. Pastern dermatitis is a kind of exzema, sometimes called mallenders and sallenders in heavy horses (mine is Kaltblut) but can include practically any skin problem on the legs. She has old scarring and I and her previous owner thought she had feather mites which was causing the itching. My vet likened the reaction to candida caused by eating sugar in humans.

ETA, the massive problem occurred last Spring, we changed her diet completely over the summer to eliminate all wheat and her legs are just about scab/itch free now. I have been using silver ointment on them and unfortunately passersby do sometimes feed on her on most unsuitable thngs, which can set her skin off again.
 
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FrankieCob said:
I'd be feeding a very low sugar diet with a balancer with no iron, but high levels of copper and zinc. 40gms of salt and up to 75gms of brewers yeast.

My old horse went from chronic sweet itch to being out naked and itch free with a radical diet overhaul :) Copper and zinc are implicated in all sorts of skin/feet issues, as is salt. Cavallese is basically just B vitamins so if the high dose brewers yeast doesnt work, then it probaby wont
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Thank you, I might have thought of the low sugar, but wouldn't have known about the minerals - so zinc, copper and salt good, iron bad, yes?
 
Pearlsasinger said:
unfortunately passersby do sometimes feed on her on most unsuitable thngs, which can set her skin off again.
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God, that must drive you wild! Fortunately the horses aren't really near roads or footpaths, so I can pretty much control what he eats - the only peril is the occasional "oh I didn't think you'd mind if I gave him a treat" livery, which does irritate me as he's 4 and it makes him bitey. But if it actually damaged his health I'd be fit to be tied! I am feeling a change of diet and a little "don't feed the savage beast" sign coming on...

Thanks so much everyone for making the effort to hack all the way through that mammoth post and offer your advice - I really appreciate you taking the time to help the Micropony!
 
I hope that sorts it out. Just be aware that most commercial horse treats contain wheatfeed or alfalfa (which affects some horses) or both, my mare has carrot pieces as rewards. Best of luck!
 
I used to use neem oil on my mare who had mud fever and it was fantastic (the smell was gross though). I'd hose her legs first, dry off with a towel and then put thermatex leg wraps on for 30 minutes or so before applying the neem oil (drying the legs thoroughly is so important, and I found the leg wraps dried off what the towel couldn't). I tried field boots (equilibrium ones) but found them to be useless; the mud always seeped through and aggravated the mud fever further, and they were a nightmare to clean/dry.
 
I have a 16.3 hh TBxID who has sweet itch (didn't have it until she came to me 12 years ago), which I control with a SI rug and I have also found Naff D-Itch to be very helpful. She also gets mud fever, but not in the winter! We are on sandy soil that drains well but she seems to get a form of MF during the summer months when she is turned out 24/7. I have found pig oil & sulphur good for helping manage it. She gets very little feed during this period so I don't think it is diet related. She is a grey, and has very thin and delicate skin which can get rubbed raw very quickly so we have to get on top of anything skin-related very quickly.
 
I've never had first hand experience of sweet itch but have of mudfever.

The easiest and quickest treatment for that is Nizoral shampoo, you can buy it at the chemist and is a human anti-dandruff shampoo. The active ingredient is Ketaconisol which has anti fungal & anti bacterial properties.

Also to consider this time of year is the higher levels of clover in grazing, along with any lucerne products that are in his feed. Legumes can cause photosensitisation resulting in mud fever type symptoms. Removing these from the diet usually clears up the mudfever type symptom.
 
If your horse is an import then it's very likely that he has developed a sensitivity to not only midge bites (SI), but also the spores that cause mud fever. It generally takes up to 3 years for horses which have never encountered the midge to develop SI, so you can be lulled into thinking they don't/won't have it and then, bang! Full blown itching and rubbing. I have Spanish horses, which are notorious for SI and itching problems, so have first hand experience of this. The mud fever I don't know so much about, but it sounds like he's just a very sensitive horse (I have one also, he's always reacting to something).
 
Micropony said:
Thank you, I might have thought of the low sugar, but wouldn't have known about the minerals - so zinc, copper and salt good, iron bad, yes?
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Yes, zinc and copper are mostly good because iron is "bad" (or rather over-provided by most UK forage) : http://forageplustalk.co.uk/iron-overload-in-horses-by-dr-kellon/

ForagePlus Talk is a good site to read up on, even if you don't buy supplements from them. This is their page on sweet itch: http://forageplustalk.co.uk/sweet-itch-in-horses-by-dr-kellon/

Another possibility, given the lack of turnout and the fact he didn't have these problems when out 24/7, is a vitamin E deficiency. Vitamin E is high in growing grass, but not in hay. I feed mine vitamin E when they are penned on hay (for weight loss) and in the winter. http://forageplustalk.co.uk/vitamin-e-the-warrior-vitamin/
 
Thanks so much, some really good ideas here. Will check out those forage plus links right now.
And that's really interesting Cortez about it taking a while before imported horses develop reactions to things, makes perfect sense but I hadn't thought about it like that.
 
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