Sorry me again!

[sam72431]

Just to say thanks for everyones help, I have spoken to Theresa Holland at D&H and she has given me a tailored diet, puts my mind at rest! He is now to have pasture mix, alfafa and sugar beet.

I also now have the results in front of me from his blood test, the enzymes which are raised are AST @ 717, GGT @ 88 and LDH @ 819 everything else including bile acids are within the normal limits but apparently all of these are only mildly elevated. Not sure if anyone else has seen this before? He is bright and happy in himself and eating well, we went for a ride today and he was absolutely full of himself not sure if this is the antibiotics?! Thanks

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

gr8 good on you. I phoned her today but she hasn't got back to me. left a message but i will phone again tomorrow.

 

[Maisy]

My horse has liver 'issues' (currently awaiting the results of a biopsy), but when they first found that his liver enzymes were raised my vet advised that I should steer clear of alfalfa??

 

[sam72431]

She said that although it is slightly higher in protein it produces less acid in the hind gut than other oat straw based chaffs as its more easily digested and as the the rest of his diet is low in protein it will be fine, i thought the same as well!

 

[Maisy]

She said that although it is slightly higher in protein it produces less acid in the hind gut than other oat straw based chaffs as its more easily digested and as the the rest of his diet is low in protein it will be fine, i thought the same as well!

It's a minefield isn't it!!?? I have just removed chaff of any kind from his diet, and am feeding fast fibre, cracked maize and sugar beet, along with the milk thistle....

 

[sam72431]

Yes!!!!! So so so confusing, but Theresa Holland at d&h has helped alot! She is really easy to speak to, try giving her a ring?!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

It's a minefield isn't it!!?? I have just removed chaff of any kind from his diet, and am feeding fast fibre, cracked maize and sugar beet, along with the milk thistle....

ahhhhhhhhhhh nooooooo fast fibre isnt good for liver. Its straw based, it produces to much ammonia and can make jaundice worst. teresa Holland said stay clear of all straw based chaff and that includes fast fibre. She told me to use 2 1/2 kilos of alfafa per day that was 25g of it each of her 10 feeds 25 g of nuts and 700grms of sugar beet in each feed.

my mare went really strange in behaviour after the fast fibre like brain fog but then her liver was prob worst than yours straw based is hard for the liver.

Stay clear of oils too. My mare ( who i lost last monday : improved when she came off fast fibre
lemon is good as is licorice for the liver

 

[Maisy]

Yes!!!!! So so so confusing, but Theresa Holland at d&h has helped alot! She is really easy to speak to, try giving her a ring?!

I probably will when I get the results of the biopsy so I know what I am actually dealing with....I don't know which 'enzyme' was high, but the numbers I was given was 400 about 2 months ago, 360 5 days later and 287 on 20th November....so they appear to be going in the right direction, although the 'normal' level is 80 I think....(for whichever enzyme it is!!)....

He seems ok without the chaff, and that was the only thing I had to change, as I feed fast fibre by the bucket load to all of mine anyway....

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

My horse has liver 'issues' (currently awaiting the results of a biopsy), but when they first found that his liver enzymes were raised my vet advised that I should steer clear of alfalfa??

With due respect teressa Holland works hand in glove with the worlds leadin Liver disease expert


The "no oil" rule comes straight from Professor Derek Knottenbelt at Liverpool University - he's a world expert on liver damage in horses and he works closely with D&H Chief Nutritionist Dr.Teresa Holland, who also said no oil

Teresa Holland and basically was as follows: Low protein but all animals need some protein so what you do feed should be the highest quality you can afford; no oils or conditioning feeds EVER; milk thistle; Yea Sac; feed little and often, keep out of the sun in summer. That's it!

Ok up to you but my mare was on fast fibre each meal 5 times a day due to her laminitis i used it, gradually the liver could not cope with the straw based fast fibre and i noticed behavious changes,


standing in different positions along the wall under hay rack , across the middle all positions she never stood in before and she looked dazed too and her gums went paler and paler. I saw it all first hand as i have cctv on 24 7 before she was PTS last week. So I could see changes first hand but when i took her off it she seemed brighter and ther were no more odemas either

 

[Maisy]

With due respect teressa Holland works hand in glove with the worlds leadin Liver disease expert


The "no oil" rule comes straight from Professor Derek Knottenbelt at Liverpool University - he's a world expert on liver damage in horses and he works closely with D&H Chief Nutritionist Dr.Teresa Holland, who also said no oil

Teresa Holland and basically was as follows: Low protein but all animals need some protein so what you do feed should be the highest quality you can afford; no oils or conditioning feeds EVER; milk thistle; Yea Sac; feed little and often, keep out of the sun in summer. That's it!

Ok up to you but my mare was on fast fibre each meal 5 times a day due to her laminitis i used it, gradually the liver could not cope with the straw based fast fibre and i noticed behavious changes,


standing in different positions along the wall under hay rack , across the middle all positions she never stood in before and she looked dazed too and her gums went paler and paler. I saw it all first hand as i have cctv on 24 7 before she was PTS last week. So I could see changes first hand but when i took her off it she seemed brighter and ther were no more odemas either

I wasn't questioning what D&H had said, I was just questioning fullstop.... I know very little about feed, and take a stab in the dark to do my best for my lot!! As I said, I am waiting for the results of the biopsy (which I am hoping will be back tomorrow or the next day), and then I can go from there....

I don't really know *what* could be causing his problems, as when I look on the internet, I feel like booking his cremation, so I think its best that I wait to be told whats what!!!

I did say, earlier in this thread, that I will give D&H a call when I know what I am looking at....I am very interested in reading all advice, and honestly wasn't trying to say I knew better

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I feel like booking his cremation, so I think its best that I wait to be told whats what!!!

i know your not questioning
sorry if I seem pushy, this is what i have just had to do book my mare of a life time 23 years her cremation I am waiting for her ashes , crying as i write

 

[Maisy]

i know your not questioning
sorry if I seem pushy, this is what i have just had to do book my mare of a life time 23 years her cremation I am waiting for her ashes , crying as i write

...I am very sorry....in the circumstances, my reply wasn't very tactful...:-(

 

[Maisy]

...and I'm glad for you being pushy...!!! I WILL ring D&H once I get the results....My vet just said steer clear of alfalfa, but said fast fibre was fine....

Expect many questions....!!!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

my vet said give her soya oil to improve her condition Teressa said no so its mix advice. personaly i went with Teressa and dropped the oil then told my vet i had


ok my heart is breaking had this on my sad day thread
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=575357.

love more than life nursing her 24.7 for the liver and the other problem.

My brave brave girl have to go now wetting my keyboard with tears , good luck with your horse .