Sorry more bird scarer help!

[FirstLight]

Hi,
My mum owns a riding school and yesterday a new bird scarer has been placed by the farmer not far from our outdoor arena in a field of rapeseed. There have been bird scarers there for the past month or so but further from the fence line and not as loud...This new one is SO loud, makes you feel like everything shakes and echos for a minute down the valley, it goes off around every 20 mins. The horses haven't been too fussed as of yet, but we have had comments from customers how it's making them feel nervous to ride...

I'm just wondering if there is some kind of ruling as to how close can they be to a property etc?
Thankyou in advance for any info!

 

[*hic*]

WHat did the farmer say when you asked him politely if he could move it as it was likely to cause him an expensive accident?

 

[canteron]

Google

NFU Bird Scarer Code of Practice.

The horses do get used to them, but i can understand your clients concerns.

I would talk to the farmer and if no joy talk to your local environmental officer ...... If they are outside the Code of Practice they can do something about it.

 

[FirstLight]

We spoke with the farmer today and all he kept saying is that he is losing crop...I understand that but this will lose us customers, the previous bird scarers and locations we had no issue with. He wasn't very willing to discuss the location and so on. I will take a look at the website, thankyou.

 

[PeterNatt]

http://www.nfuonline.com/assets/3390

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

It shows just how much these bird scarers work - the one in the field next to me has a flock of pigeons less than 20m away from it. When it goes off you are lucky if 2 or 3 fly up for 5m and back down again, the other 20 odd don't even flinch. The farmer drives the perimeter of his fields 4 or 5 times a day beeping his horn to remove pigeons and seagulls.

This farmer has now taken to using rockets ... That's going down like a lead baloon with my horses, even the placid old shetland runs for her life when they go off!

 

[FirstLight]

Rockets?! I'm unsure on all the different types of bird scarer but this is louder than any I have ever heard.
Since January they have had what looks to me as party bunting, scarecrows and what not all over the field along with going out in the early hours to shoot the pigeons none of that worked. The previous bird scarers have been there for just over a month with no luck, I can understand why as the top half of his field hasn't grown at all yet the bottom half is now all yellow. It's just this new bird scarer seems to close to our outdoor school and is putting customers off.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Rockets - bloody loud pieces of metal that go off louder than 6 birdscarers in a oner and produce a massive plume of smoke that it hurtles down the field producing! I did ask if they could set those off at the other end of the field but no - they need to set it off by the road so that it goes away from the road, not towards it! The next few weeks are going to be fun ...

 

[Dry Rot]

With all due respect, this is not the farmer's problem, but your problem. Farmers have a right to protect their crops and, if they didn't, there wouldn't be much on your plate at meal times! But this one seems to be going about it the wrong way as it clearly is not working and he is upsetting his neighbours!

Have you considered trying to help the farmer in his bird scaring efforts instead of just complaining? There are plenty more ideas for bird scaring than bangers (though admittedly a lot are rubbish!). This time of year is a very busy one for farmers and if your neighbour is anything like me he will be running around like a blue assed fly trying to catch up most of the time!

Here's one idea and they apparently work, at least short term. There are also balloons and kites. Any reasonably competent do-it-yourselfer with some imagination could surely come up with something similar.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/3009...f11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108&ff19=0

Bird scarers need to be changed and moved around regularly as the birds get used to them. Bangers work where there is also shooting. I'd be surprised if there was no one local who would be willing to do some free bird scaring. The farming forums always seem to be full of people looking for free shooting. Even super market carrier bags on posts that flutter in the wind will work for a while.

I de-sensitised ponies here to shooting by training them to come to hard feed at the sound of a shot. It really isn't difficult. I can't help with desensitising your mother's clients, though!

 

[canteron]

It shows just how much these bird scarers work - the one in the field next to me has a flock of pigeons less than 20m away from it. When it goes off you are lucky if 2 or 3 fly up for 5m and back down again, the other 20 odd don't even flinch. The farmer drives the perimeter of his fields 4 or 5 times a day beeping his horn to remove pigeons and seagulls.

This farmer has now taken to using rockets ... That's going down like a lead baloon with my horses, even the placid old shetland runs for her life when they go off!

I look out over a lot of farmland and the guns are pretty useless unless they are moved regularly the flying birds however do a much much better job.

There is some research that shows that in some areas the guns actually attract pigeons! Living proof maybe that some pigeons are cleverer than some farmers!

And Dry Rot, sorry there are a lot of farmers out there who don't give a monkeys about the local community. Especially now that the farms are getting bigger and there are a lot of contractors etc, they just don't have the connection and anyway lets be honest, most farmers have inherited their lands so to a certain extent are inordinately privileged lot. I know very few farmers who have ever planted a crop because it 'feeds the world' but many who do it because it is a 'profitable crop this year' and they are subsidised to a huge extent by us the taxpayer (and the EU) so surely an obligation to the surrounding community should be in there. This lovely idea that farmers are heroes who can do what they like or we all starve it a bit outdated, so I genuinely feel that the NFU needs to tighten their guidelines or they risk losing a lot of public support over gun scarers.

 

[Dry Rot]

I look out over a lot of farmland and the guns are pretty useless unless they are moved regularly the flying birds however do a much much better job.

There is some research that shows that in some areas the guns actually attract pigeons! Living proof maybe that some pigeons are cleverer than some farmers!

And Dry Rot, sorry there are a lot of farmers out there who don't give a monkeys about the local community. Especially now that the farms are getting bigger and there are a lot of contractors etc, they just don't have the connection and anyway lets be honest, most farmers have inherited their lands so to a certain extent are inordinately privileged lot. I know very few farmers who have ever planted a crop because it 'feeds the world' but many who do it because it is a 'profitable crop this year' and they are subsidised to a huge extent by us the taxpayer (and the EU) so surely an obligation to the surrounding community should be in there. This lovely idea that farmers are heroes who can do what they like or we all starve it a bit outdated, so I genuinely feel that the NFU needs to tighten their guidelines or they risk losing a lot of public support over gun scarers.

Well, if you look out over farmland, I can quite see that you will know all about farming, bird control, and the economics of crop production.

 

[RunToEarth]

Are you sure it is oil seed rape? I only ask because most is waist height now and absolutely should not need a gas gun anywhere near it.

 

[RunToEarth]

I look out over a lot of farmland and the guns are pretty useless unless they are moved regularly the flying birds however do a much much better job.

There is some research that shows that in some areas the guns actually attract pigeons! Living proof maybe that some pigeons are cleverer than some farmers!

And Dry Rot, sorry there are a lot of farmers out there who don't give a monkeys about the local community. Especially now that the farms are getting bigger and there are a lot of contractors etc, they just don't have the connection and anyway lets be honest, most farmers have inherited their lands so to a certain extent are inordinately privileged lot. I know very few farmers who have ever planted a crop because it 'feeds the world' but many who do it because it is a 'profitable crop this year' and they are subsidised to a huge extent by us the taxpayer (and the EU) so surely an obligation to the surrounding community should be in there. This lovely idea that farmers are heroes who can do what they like or we all starve it a bit outdated, so I genuinely feel that the NFU needs to tighten their guidelines or they risk losing a lot of public support over gun scarers.

Look forward to reading this compelling evidence regarding bird scarers attracting birds - can I have the link?

Sometimes I'm not sure whether it is ignorance or jealously but attitudes like yours really annoy me. Are you starving? Is your horse starving? Where are you riding? What are you bedding your horses on? Genuinely interested.

 

[FirstLight]

Definatly rapeseed the whole bottom half of the field by the road is now in full yellow bloom yet the top half of the field by the wood hasn't grown at all...

I'm guessing this new one must be the 'rocket' thing, sounds it. Farmer said he would call in to see us today to discuss it, never came.

This farmer has always been very awkward for us, we don't really have any neighbours just us in the middle of the country. We had issues a few years ago with his shoot, shot landing on the indoor school roof, customers cars, our horses and also hitting customers (an accident occurred with the Farrier and horse when shot fell on the horse while being shod). We would go and nicely talk with the shoot asking if they could not shoot our direction etc. Still happened, police went still happened only when we got solicitors involved did they stop. He has also barricaded off bridleways at the edge of his property so we can't use them.

 

[canteron]

Well, if you look out over farmland, I can quite see that you will know all about farming, bird control, and the economics of crop production.

Have land myself and have many friends with large estates. I also worked for a Land Agency for many years - which, trust me, showed me the realists of farming, so yup, I am pretty clued up.

 

[RunToEarth]

Have land myself and have many friends with large estates. I also worked for a Land Agency for many years - which, trust me, showed me the realists of farming, so yup, I am pretty clued up.

Having friends with large estates and working for a land agency firm doesn't qualify for knowledge - my secretary works for a land agency firm and she knows absolutely nothing about crop production.

 

[Goldenstar]

No business no matter want it is doing has the right to carelessly impact on others this sort of behaviour would not be allowed in a factory in a town .
Of course bird scarers have to be used but they must be carefully located .
The attitude of some farmers that "it's not their problem " if they impact in a negative way other peoples lives will come back and bite them on the bum one day.
It's amusing that some farmers still think they are heroes feeding the people when the day comes that I see them do it without public subsidy I 'll be happy to consider believing it .

 

[Patterdale]

WHat did the farmer say when you asked him politely if he could move it as it was likely to cause him an expensive accident?

This would have been my first port of call

There is some research that shows that in some areas the guns actually attract pigeons! Living proof maybe that some pigeons are cleverer than some farmers!
......... anyway lets be honest, most farmers have inherited their lands so to a certain extent are inordinately privileged lot.

Woah, chip on the shoulder much?

I would also be interested in your 'evidence' that bird scarers attract pigeons :rolleyes3:

Sometimes I'm not sure whether it is ignorance or jealously but attitudes like yours really annoy me. Are you starving? Is your horse starving? Where are you riding? What are you bedding your horses on? Genuinely interested.

Bit of both I think.

This farmer has always been very awkward for us, we don't really have any neighbours just us in the middle of the country. We had issues a few years ago with his shoot, shot landing on the indoor school roof, customers cars, our horses and also hitting customers (an accident occurred with the Farrier and horse when shot fell on the horse while being shod). We would go and nicely talk with the shoot asking if they could not shoot our direction etc. Still happened, police went still happened only when we got solicitors involved did they stop. He has also barricaded off bridleways at the edge of his property so we can't use them.

Sorry - do you mean the shot bird, or shot as in pellets? As I find either incredibly hard to believe. A farmer, whom we can assume to be an experienced gun, shooting directly over people, cars and buildings, where they can't even pick up?

My first thought on reading the first post, and seeing that the OP has very few posts, but seems to already know that this will be a contentious issue on the forum, was that it is an existing user stirring the pot.

The latest, patently untrue post, just confirms this for me.

*cue strenuous denial from OP*

:rolleyes3:

 

[PollyP99]

No business no matter want it is doing has the right to carelessly impact on others this sort of behaviour would not be allowed in a factory in a town .
Of course bird scarers have to be used but they must be carefully located .
The attitude of some farmers that "it's not their problem " if they impact in a negative way other peoples lives will come back and bite them on the bum one day.
It's amusing that some farmers still think they are heroes feeding the people when the day comes that I see them do it without public subsidy I 'll be happy to consider believing it .

This ^^ no other businesses get away with impacting others!

 

[canteron]

Look forward to reading this compelling evidence regarding bird scarers attracting birds - can I have the link?

Sometimes I'm not sure whether it is ignorance or jealously but attitudes like yours really annoy me. Are you starving? Is your horse starving? Where are you riding? What are you bedding your horses on? Genuinely interested.

And how much money do farmers/landowners get from the tax payer & EU every year (huge amounts)? It runs both ways.

I think that an industry this heavily subsidised owes some duty of consideration to the surrounding tax payers who subsidise them.

 

[Patterdale]

And how much money do farmers/landowners get from the tax payer & EU every year, it is a heavily subsidised industry? It runs both ways.

What do we get money for? Fancy holidays etc? Ha!

Subsidies are for caring for the land, for want of a better term. Planting hedgerows, leaving conservation strips for wildlife and wild flowers, resting certain fields certain years, planting trees. I could go on.
If your fields are poached or your boundaries not maintained, you lose subsidies.
For example, I'm not allowed ring feeders for the horses in most fields as they wreck the ground.

In return for these subsidies, the public has a beautiful countryside and wildlife population to enjoy, over public footpaths and bridle ways.

I can't really see the problem??

It certainly doesn't always benefit the farmer. For example, we are paid a subsidy to NOT graze certain areas. This is to encourage wild flora and fauna to flourish. The payment is less than what we would get for the animals that would graze it. But still, we're 'greedy farmers taking subsidies' :rolleyes3:

 

[Dry Rot]

Have land myself and have many friends with large estates. I also worked for a Land Agency for many years - which, trust me, showed me the realists of farming, so yup, I am pretty clued up.

And I was a land agent for many years (and a farmer now) so even more clued up!

 

[PollyP99]

Back to the op though and away from the normal cards played - feeding the world/good of the masses/rich/poor/ignorant farmers/ignorant public

- farmers do seem to think they can impact others in ways other businesses cannot

 

[RunToEarth]

Back to the op though and away from the normal cards played - feeding the world/good of the masses/rich/poor/ignorant farmers/ignorant public

- farmers do seem to think they can impact others in ways other businesses cannot

I'm a farmer and fwiw I think the farmer referred to in OP is wholly unreasonable. I just question what is actually happen though - it's mid way through April, rape is hip height and not vulnerable to pigeon damage at all - they won't land in crops this high - so if the farmer does have his gas gun out, it is solely to create a nuisance, I would be reporting it to environmental health.

 

[Patterdale]

Back to the op though and away from the normal cards played - feeding the world/good of the masses/rich/poor/ignorant farmers/ignorant public

- farmers do seem to think they can impact others in ways other businesses cannot

Most contradictory post of the year award??

 

[Wagtail]

Are you sure it is oil seed rape? I only ask because most is waist height now and absolutely should not need a gas gun anywhere near it.

They are still going off in the OSR fields around me.

I think the OP has every right to protect her business, just as the farmer has every right to protect his. But the farmer does not have the right to adversely affect the OP's business. He should move the bird scarer or use a different type of deterrent.

 

[RunToEarth]

They are still going off in the OSR fields around me.

I think the OP has every right to protect her business, just as the farmer has every right to protect his. But the farmer does not have the right to adversely affect the OP's business. He should move the bird scarer or use a different type of deterrent.

Is the crop tall and in flower? That is completely unacceptable and won't achieve anything (apart from annoying people) I would be complaining!

 

[Wagtail]

Is the crop tall and in flower? That is completely unacceptable and won't achieve anything (apart from annoying people) I would be complaining!

Yes, it is in flower. I have just learned to live with it. Doesn't mean I have to like it though.

 

[PollyP99]

I'm a farmer and fwiw I think the farmer referred to in OP is wholly unreasonable. I just question what is actually happen though - it's mid way through April, rape is hip height and not vulnerable to pigeon damage at all - they won't land in crops this high - so if the farmer does have his gas gun out, it is solely to create a nuisance, I would be reporting it to environmental health.

Just the kind of advice OP needs, does seem a weird time to place a scarer.

 

[Dry Rot]

They are still going off in the OSR fields around me.

I think the OP has every right to protect her business, just as the farmer has every right to protect his. But the farmer does not have the right to adversely affect the OP's business. He should move the bird scarer or use a different type of deterrent.

He does if the bird scaring has been carried out since before the OP arrived -- and I suspect the farmer was there first.

If you move to the countryside, you accept it as you find it -- stinking dung heaps, crowing cockerels, late night harvesting, and all!