sorry question about sweet itch

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welshies

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Sorry i know this has been done 100 times over but i live in hope i might find someting that helps one day! My poor 4 year old shire has suffered from sweet itch for 2.5 years now and this year he seems to be gettin worse. He wears a demaulenkamp rug 24/7 (like boett) he's trashed it after 2 years and keeps being patched so might go the extra cost to a boett next time? I believe i have tried pretty much eveything but nothing seems to work enough to make enough of a difference to keep using it. I am a firm believer in treating the cause not just the symptoms which is why i use a rug to try and stop him being bitten in the first place. I have tried all sorts of lotions and potions, shop bought and home made, the best being 'stop itch' so far but it's so expensive to keep buying these things if they don't really work, plus he really really hates having any creams put on. He is also really really sensitive to anthing touching him, sweet itch aside i think he would have to wear a fly rug anyway, he's more like a thin skinned thoroughbred! Homeopathic sulphur 30c literally cured my section D of SI and he only rubs a little when the midges and flies are really bad like most horses would, but unfortunatley haven't worked on the shire. The only route i haven't gone down in the past is feeding these supplements such as global herbs skratch, or the feedmark one, i feed feedmark supplements for vit and mins etc with great success. Does anyone use any of the suppelements for severe switch itch, not just a little itch? Or any other ideas? I don't expenct to cure it but some relief would be amazing, especially as i want to start breaking him, i can't do this at the moment as the flies and midge annoy him too much!

thanks for reading
 
Poor horse, what a nightmare.

Is yours out all the time, or stabled? Mine copes better being in from 4-5pm until 8am. He has an indoor stable and I have taped up the gap round the outside window frame and I am thinking of buying some midge netting to put up over the other window. That seems to help him, he hasn't rubbed his tail or mane yet this year, except for the bit where the neck slips back.

I have a boett which he wears 24/7 but I don't think there is much of a difference - mine has lasted 2 years quite well but that's more likely because he is in so much and not rubbing madly - the boetts do rip if they rub on fencing.

A friend of mine has tried Cavalesse (sp?) which you add to their feed - might be worth a try although it's expensive and you have to remember to do it!
 
Mine won't wear anything on his ears like the boetts with masks but have found rugs with a 'hood' to be very effective, like the rambo sweetitch hoody (I got a cheaper version). I also use killitch with success, a friend of mine said the active ingredient (sorry can't remember its name) is excellent. With this we've never had it bad enough to try supplements, but have been researching them for my other boy who has a mystery allergy, and have heard good things about skratch (apart from the taste apparently!)
 
Do you restrict his grazing, in the summer, OP? Often sweet itch is as much dietary as it is the flies. Reaction to bites is just a symptom. Chloe came with severe sweet itch (and open wounds) and I managed it like lami, she's on a bare paddock during most of the summer and autumn, with hay, rather than ad-lib grass (they live out, with shelter).

For lotions and potions, I only use Neem Oil and Benzyl Benzoate, 100ml N.O, about 500ml BB and the topped up to 1L with water, shaking well before every use. Chloe hates it being applied, too, but it's worth it.

For food, she now gets oat chaff, with haylage balancer (despite not being on haylage, but it's to reduce acidity in the gut), micronised linseed, extra brewer's yeast, epsom salts (MgSO4) and nothing more! When the BY runs out, I'll be switching to Yeasacc, as my source is of variable quality and brewing method.

Rugwise, she now has the Rambo Sweet Itch Hoody. Bloody useless for going over the ears (they come out straight away), but the hood sits right up behind her ears, so the neck is completely protected. I've noticed that this rug keeps her mane lovely and flat, which means the scurf is SO much easier to manage. She had a bald lower half of mane and bald dock in 2009. Managed almost without rugs in 2010 (potions only), but got caught out in Autumn 2011 a bit, when she rubbed. She's been rugged since Feb and and half confident she'll keep her mane and tail completely, this year. You'd never think to look at her she was a sweet itch pony - I had to tell the vet last month!

I still use potions with the rug, on her head, ears and legs, plus the belly and udders and even around her botty hole. Every few days I go over her completely with it, but otherwise it's just the regions above, every 2-3 days.

Now I've found out how easy she is to manage under a thicker rug, I'm actually waiting on a lightweight amigo (with larger neck than is normal for her size), for the very wet autumn days. She seems much less scurfy with a rug on. Like you, I compare mine to a TB (she's exmoor!). She's even flippin built like one and I've never come across a native with such sensitive skin to the elements!
 
This condition drives my 3 year old demented too! He only started suffering with it last year as a 2 year old and I didn't know he had a problem until too late when I found him in his stable with a large chunk of mane missing. I immediately bought a boett which did help him greatly but didn't wipe the SI out and the bottom half of his mane was completely gone before the end of the summer as was the hair from the top of his tail.

I find I cannot have him in the stables at all unless I am supervising as he just rubs and rubs until he's sore so he is currently living out on fairly poor grazing (he's a good doer anyway) and his paddock is completely surrounded by electric fencing so that he has nowhere to really scratch on.

I have also been feeding him a supplement since February called Hippo Excema - it is fairly expensive but I think it's really helping him. His skin in general holds a lot more moisture and there is hardly any flaking whereas last year he had constant dandruff all over his neck and the top of his tail. He is currently a little itchy but really nowhere near as bad as last year so I'm hopefull that the supplement is working well. Time will tell I suppose as the summer goes on but so far I am happy with his treatment.

Things I am now avoiding are - I'm trying not to use his Boett too much, he gets static shocks from it and is really scared of me putting it on and taking it off no matter how much desensitising I do so it only goes on for really 'bad' midge days + I think that rugs can sometimes make them more itchy...

I am also avoiding benzyl benzoate based creams as I used one at the start of the spring and my poor wee man had a large bald patch and sore skin where he had some kind of reaction to the cream.

Good luck and please come back to us if you find something that works as I am always looking for ways to alleviate stress on my poor youngster
 
Thank you for the replies I have found your comment really helpful, kind of cemented a few things i had been thinking, the reason i posted was he has definatly seemed worse in the last few weeks (especially this last 2 weeks) than before and wanted to see if any little changes have made a difference. Such as i fact i have taken him off the feedmark 'original balancer' that i had him on to aid condition as he's also really hard to keep weight on plus suffers with his guts a little and have been giving him the feedmark 'benevit advance' simply because it's i feed my others on the benevit advance and they do really well on it and it's half the price plus didn't think, now he is 4 and the grass is pretty good this year, he would need the extra conditioning but it was only a trial and think it may have something to do with it. the original balancer contains yea-sacc which sorted his guts out amazingly (he had got to the point where he had starting wind sucking) but also has conditioning ingredient one of which i beleive is linseed!!!! Really didn't think it would make that much difference but may if has.....? I'll have a look at the brewers yeast again, i did feed it at one point but couldn't tell if there was a difference, also never tried DEET just because my other horse reacted to it, but it may suit him.

stabling him isn't an option, and i read with interest the bit about ristricting grazing as i've always wondered about laminitis being a link, doesn't the SI injection increase the risk of lami? Maybe it's just the sugar content of spring grass? Thinking about it my sec D developed SI when he was in livery where they had lush grass, never had it before and cured with sulphur once i moved him and never had it since.....interesting. But with my shire he is still a baby in the shire world and is really hard to keep weight on and he stresses really badly, which is made worse by the stress of the flies!

I have been looking for secong spare rug and was thinking of a sweet itch hoody but didn't want to spend another £100 if it didn't fit, although he is 18.2hh he's not filled out yet so only takes a 7'3 but he has the neck of a giraffe so didn't know if the proportions would be ok and last think we need if rug rubs too!

It's just not knowing what to do for the best isn't it! but it's so horrible to see, which is made worse becasue he is just sooooo bloody sensitive to everything!

I need to win the lottery and make 20acrea barn with industrial size fans!!!
thanks again!
 
Global Herbs Skratch products are effective, IF you can get them to eat it! I tried it on my SI pony but could only get her to eat half the recommended amount, which did improve things a bit. It's very bitter and you have to introduce it very slowly, a pinch at a time.

Benzyl-benzoate is cheap and effective in a lot of horses.

There is a new fly spray Tri-tech 14 which I have started using and seems, so far. to be very effective. You have to soak them in it first time, then reapply every few days, then once a week.
 
I have two cobs that have had sweetitch for over 15 years. I dare not think how much I have spent on rugs over the years especially when they were having a new Boett every year. Stabling was no help at all as they just rubbed none stop.

Our regime for the last few years has been rambo sweet itch hoodies, never use the ear holes either as the neck seems to sit just right anyway. They also wear boett hoods.

Unless its very windy their underbits are sprayed with midge repellant or skin so soft and any sore patches that occur are covered in sudocreme. They have nothing to scratch on as they are behind electric fencing.
 
welshies said:
stabling him isn't an option, and i read with interest the bit about ristricting grazing as i've always wondered about laminitis being a link, doesn't the SI injection increase the risk of lami? Maybe it's just the sugar content of spring grass? Thinking about it my sec D developed SI when he was in livery where they had lush grass, never had it before and cured with sulphur once i moved him and never had it since.....interesting. But with my shire he is still a baby in the shire world and is really hard to keep weight on and he stresses really badly, which is made worse by the stress of the flies!
I need to win the lottery and make 20acrea barn with industrial size fans!!!
thanks again!
Click to expand...

The condition itself is not linked to laminitis, but may be caused by the same thing. Think of it like IBS. If you've ever had a dog/cat that has squitty shitties when fed dry food or commercial pet foods high in grain, you'll know how important diet is. Lots of sugar in the hind gut will lead to a massive increase in bacteria, there (regardless of species!). This leads to inflammation and an immune response. For more sensitive horses, this response will be systemic and will affect the skin, looking like eczema or dandruff. Different species, but one of my cats cannot eat even the 'better' dry foods and many wet ones, due to IBS issues. He gets diarrhoea, itchy skin and drives himself to distraction. When I took him in from a rescue place he had bald patches inside his legs and a deep cut under his jaw from scratching so hard - feline sweet itch, if you like!

So, with an immune system permanently on the defensive, those horses react to bites more strongly. Genetic make up will determine just how the gut copes with contunuous assault. Some, like Henry, are more lami prone, but don't seem affected by fly bites. Chloe on the other hand, sheesh! :D

Check out this link, which has an abstract relating to research done with s.boulardii (another Saccharomyces variant). They showed that extract was just as effective at reducing inflammation, but the yeast itself acts by binding to pathogenic organisms (which means that organism can't bind to the gut wall - the first step of infection) and lowers the pro-inflammatory cytokines (chemical messengers!). A bit sci-speak, so ask if you want anything explaining. For info, Caco-2 is a cell line derived from the intestine. :)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20629753
 
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I have a 9 year old welsh cob that I have owned for 5 years, he only devoloped sweetitch last year and he rubbed himself raw on his neck and tail. I treated this succesfully with sudacrem. I have bought a rambo fly rug this year but he has started rubbing already, I have tried all sorts of fly repellants but they don't seem to work. Any suggestions why he should only have developed it last year and any help on what repellants are successful would be greatly appreciaited.
 
My horse suffers from sweet itch and was getting worse year by year. I decided on a radical change to how I treated it.

Firstly I have removed sugar from the diet, I feed her as though she is a lamanitic. I have noticed that when she is in an adjacent field to the neighbours horses, they are plagued by flies but she is not. They are fed conventionally with quite a high amount of sugar and starch.
In addition to altering her feed I have increased the level of linseed in her diet. I notice that the oil content of her skin and coat has increased and I feel that it may offer more effective protection than Lotions and potions, as we are treating from the inside out.
Overall, the sweet itch is not as bad as it was and appears to be improving year on year, which is opposite to the usual scenario.
I feel that diet has a major role to play in the control of this.
 
Pale Rider said:
I feel that diet has a major role to play in the control of this.
Click to expand...

Completely agree, Pale Rider. I cringe when I read so-called veterinary articles talking about the best 'fly protection' and not a hint of dietary advice (with the appalling exception sometimes of 'feed garlic', one of the most documented gut irritants!).
 
Hi, i already only feed high fibre/fat low sugar diet as heavies are suseptable to EPSM, but also because i just think horses should eat as natural as possible. My sec D and dartmoor also have the same just less! and less grass and less hay! My sec D turned 15 last week and no one can believe it, he looks like a spring chicken! They have HIFI, kwikbeet and feedmark benevit advance. Have been looking for a long time for a chaff without alfalfa but don't seem to be able to find one apart from the grass ones and my shire really doesn't like it, he's quite fussy and easily upset!! He really is more like a thoroughbred belss him, properly high maintenance!

I'm going to look at adding the probitic back ino his diet, just not sure which on, i did see when googling the day one that was brewers yeast and yea-sacc but didn't write it down and can't find it again now, how annoying. Also looking at the neem leaf / oil. Still thinking of the skratch but a bit lost in it all again, i don't want to change everything at once but want to help him asap but also don't want to spend loads on something that does work (again!) I'm sure it's like anyone else, you'll buy what ever they need it you know it works!

He also didn't really stop scratching all winter (to a lesser degree) and as the rug isn't really possible all year round (he doesn' where turnouts in winter as he looks like a wooly mamoth) Would really like to find a way to treat him form the inside.

also can't decide what rug to get next.
 
welshies said:
Sorry i know this has been done 100 times over but i live in hope i might find someting that helps one day! My poor 4 year old shire has suffered from sweet itch for 2.5 years now and this year he seems to be gettin worse. He wears a demaulenkamp rug 24/7 (like boett) he's trashed it after 2 years and keeps being patched so might go the extra cost to a boett next time? I believe i have tried pretty much eveything but nothing seems to work enough to make enough of a difference to keep using it. I am a firm believer in treating the cause not just the symptoms which is why i use a rug to try and stop him being bitten in the first place. I have tried all sorts of lotions and potions, shop bought and home made, the best being 'stop itch' so far but it's so expensive to keep buying these things if they don't really work, plus he really really hates having any creams put on. He is also really really sensitive to anthing touching him, sweet itch aside i think he would have to wear a fly rug anyway, he's more like a thin skinned thoroughbred! Homeopathic sulphur 30c literally cured my section D of SI and he only rubs a little when the midges and flies are really bad like most horses would, but unfortunatley haven't worked on the shire. The only route i haven't gone down in the past is feeding these supplements such as global herbs skratch, or the feedmark one, i feed feedmark supplements for vit and mins etc with great success. Does anyone use any of the suppelements for severe switch itch, not just a little itch? Or any other ideas? I don't expenct to cure it but some relief would be amazing, especially as i want to start breaking him, i can't do this at the moment as the flies and midge annoy him too much!

thanks for reading
Click to expand...

I have one who tears herself up, hates sprays etc and has rubbed her tail raw.

She isn't a fan of contact so all I do is heap a handful of sudocreme on her tail (without her seeing - hoodies are hot in this weather!) and hold it against her tail for a long while, she loves the cooling effect.

I have spray but would end up on the floor with no horse if I attempted to spray it or even let her see it. She absolutely hates the bottle :rolleyes: So I pour it on my hand and rub it down her spine, neck and around her tail.

The spray I use is the Avon one... no other fly spray would make any odds (home made or purpose bought and we tried plenty!), the Avon one truly works (though the horse now costs more in bl**dy beauty products than me!). Always thought that it was a bit of a joke to be honest but the stuff has made a real difference.

I give her a tiny feed each morning (very tiny as she's not skinny!) and heap it full of garlic, this is meant to help too.

Between the Avon spray, sudocreme and garlic feed she's completely stopped scratching her tail and her skin seems to have settled in the main.

She has had SI badly for a number of years and takes out posts within seconds when it's bad. So Avon will keep their business as it's seemingly working!

Pan
 
Fransurrey said:
Completely agree, Pale Rider. I cringe when I read so-called veterinary articles talking about the best 'fly protection' and not a hint of dietary advice (with the appalling exception sometimes of 'feed garlic', one of the most documented gut irritants!).
Click to expand...

Do you have any 'proof' of this? I'd be very interested if there are any trusted sources that could back it up as I've been recommended by several people including vets and have found it actually makes a difference to our SI mare. If I had trusted evidence of any ill effects it would definitely make me think twice about using it. I've done a (very) quick google but only found personal sites saying anything negative not anything official.

Edit: Edit to say that said mare was on no feed for several years and I have just started a very tiny one with garlic in the last few weeks or so and seems to have helped recently.

Pan
 
You may have already tried, or had it suggested, but lots of people find feeding Brewers Yeast effective :) I know of someone who used to give her horse a Marmite sandwich everyday (well, I say sandwich. She put it on bread to help get it in him), then applied cold strong black tea to his crest and dock and kept him rugged up with plenty of fly repellent. Didn't feed garlic or molasses as apparently these can often stimulate itching, despite garlic apparently being a good fly repellent. Often turned out at night, or in the middle of the day avoiding dusk and dawn as midges are bad then. Sorry, some of this may seem pretty basic, but often it can help. Haven't had experience of it with my horse, but used to work at a place with a Welsh who had it badly :o
Forgot to add - Avon Skin So Soft is a very good midge repellent, as is Coopers for general flies, and I believe it helps with the symptoms of SI too? I do stand to be corrected on that! Net tex advanced fly spray is also good, though can feel sticky. Have also heard good things about the Carr Day and Martin sweet itch lotion stuff that comes in a blue bottle, think it's called KillItch? Not entirely sure! xx
 
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Ive not quite read all of this but ive got a sweet itchy mare and im always trying to find new things to help, i use is it NAF D-Itch as a supplement, doesnt seem to be doing an awful lot however, but the fly spray i use (for all of mine) is Effol Hors Fly Blocker, it smells dreadful and practically chokes me but nothing will go near the horses!
 
JellyBen said:
Ive not quite read all of this but ive got a sweet itchy mare and im always trying to find new things to help, i use is it NAF D-Itch as a supplement, doesnt seem to be doing an awful lot however, but the fly spray i use (for all of mine) is Effol Hors Fly Blocker, it smells dreadful and practically chokes me but nothing will go near the horses!
Click to expand...

I have just started using Effol too and it is working, he has stopped rubbing his tail off!
 
horsemadelsie said:
I also use killitch with success, a friend of mine said the active ingredient (sorry can't remember its name)
Click to expand...

Active ingredient is Benzyl Benzoate.

Mine has mild to moderate sweet itch: I feed one scoop of Brewers Yeast & 1 scoop of linseed per feed. Is fed 2X daily.

Wears a sweet itch hoody; had a disaster with the Pagony (supposed to be cheaper version of Boett, but quality is cr@p & wouldn't buy it again!!) - they've got to be put on over the head and also they've got these strap things which keep the head/neck bit on, well somehow my boy got a hind foot around this bit....... result, if you try to get it on him he just won't have it. So we use a hoody all-in-one instead, seems to do the job.

At the moment: for the first time since I've had him I'm experimenting with keeping him out 24/7. We're quite high up here so that should help; plus he's got little mare who is good at keeping him busy (he'll scratch if he's bored sometimes IMO). He has rubbed himself under one eye so at night I'll probably put on his fly mask to cover the "dawn to dusk" period.

In previous years he's been in at night and so I'm into new territory in leaving him out.

IMO you can throw good money after bad re. manufactered supplements which are supposed to be a cure-all for sweet itch. Linseed and Brewers Yeast is mega cheap. Brewers Yeast has same ingredient as Marmite by the way - my boy adores his marmite sandwiches!!

Worth a look: the National Sweet Itch Centre. They've got a lot of good advice and links. Also they're pioneering something called "BioEos" - not marketed as a "cure" for SI BUT apparently they've had some encouraging results from it. Haven't tried it but might be worth a try??

Sorry meant to add as well that (refer a previous post) I've completely cut out sugar from his diet as much as possible. He eats Dengie Hi Fi Mollasses Free. If feeding sugar beet (I don't as a rule only in the winter) its the unmollassed version, and I try to avoid garlic as that isn't good for SI as it stimulates the immune system, which is what you DON'T want as SI is a immunosupressant disorder (got that word from my vet!!!).
 
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