Sorry, this is an old one but... * sarcoids *

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sanjo

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Found and tried a fabulous SJ 11 year old schoolmaster. Passed the 5* vetting but found a small sarcoid on hind inner thigh. Vet was happy to pass it through but obviously this leads us back to the old sarcoid conundrum.
The horse is £8350, its a seasoned showjumper, and a proper schoolmaster. The sarcoid has reduced the price to 8k.

I would be really grateful for your thoughts?
 
I’d speak to your vet, and the owner (if you trust them) and ask whether it has been stable. If it has, and if it’s in an area that doesn’t affect his ability to work, I’d go for it. I’d maybe try and get a wee bit off the price. But it sounds like the horse could be fab.
My boy had sarcoids, and he’s well into his 20’s and still in full work.
 
I would buy, but I would ask the sellers to have it removed by laser first, so they pay for it. If they refuse and the horse is everything you want, one small one on an inner thigh would not worry me.
 
meleeka said:
Treatment is likely to cost around £500 so I’d want that knocked off the price as a minimum.
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Depends on the treatment, my horse’s cost £1500 to be lasered off. So I would ask the vet that vetted on how he/she would treat then ask for the cost of that treatment off the price.

The sarcoid itself wouldn’t worth but it won’t be covered under insurance
 
sanjo said:
Found and tried a fabulous SJ 11 year old schoolmaster. Passed the 5* vetting but found a small sarcoid on hind inner thigh. Vet was happy to pass it through but obviously this leads us back to the old sarcoid conundrum.
The horse is £8350, its a seasoned showjumper, and a proper schoolmaster. The sarcoid has reduced the price to 8k.

I would be really grateful for your thoughts?
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My mare hada one when vetted but overlooked by vet, 5 more popped up with one on face whcih was hardest to treat but after treatment and a couple needing a few more liverpool cream. They have All gone nothing left and the worse one on her face, the vet did vaccinations on Thursday last week said it looks brilliant, all done on insurance though but still all gone.

Br guided by vets - would not stop me buying unless in awkward places, to add the one overlooked by vet was on inner thigh and just needed two applications to rid
 
ILuvCowparsely said:
My mare had one when vetted .......... all done on insurance though but still all gone.
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You claimed on the insurance when you knew it was a pre-existing condition?

A key reason why horses with them are worth less is because they can develop more and they are not covered by insurance if they do.
 
I would ask if the removal by laser would involve GA as this is risky in horses. Also expensive and won't be covered by insurance.
Also consider the time off after removal.
 
ycbm said:
You claimed on the insurance when you knew it was a pre-existing condition?

A key reason why horses with them are worth less is because they can develop more and they are not covered by insurance if they do.
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H&H Hits the mark again I really need to not assume anything but explain in full




NO It was found 5 months later when she was insured when the face one started then the others round girth and boobies then this one on upper thigh was found as I asked for a complete body check . The old owner admitted she had a small lump high up when I told her the vet's findings but she did not know what it was and thought unimportant to mention.

In other words it was not found on the vetting................................... Hence I said she was vetted with one and said up above it was overlooked when vetted. So it was not pre existing to my knowledge.

ANY horse can develop a Sarcoid at any age, and in my experience with BOTH my mares the first mare developed them nearly a year after I got her and both mares became free of them and never grew them again.
 
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sanjo said:
Found and tried a fabulous SJ 11 year old schoolmaster. Passed the 5* vetting but found a small sarcoid on hind inner thigh. Vet was happy to pass it through but obviously this leads us back to the old sarcoid conundrum.
The horse is £8350, its a seasoned showjumper, and a proper schoolmaster. The sarcoid has reduced the price to 8k.

I would be really grateful for your thoughts?
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With this one I would as your vet or the vet you use to tell you if this is a simple banding of the scarcoid or more extensive treatment need
 
lamlyn2012 said:
I would ask if the removal by laser would involve GA as this is risky in horses. Also expensive and won't be covered by insurance.
Also consider the time off after removal.
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I've not known them need a GA, just heavy standing sedation?

If the horse is fabulous, and a proper schoolmaster, and I had funds to treat it if/when required I would purchase.
 
My horse had one. It did not bother him or bother me. Not one person ever knew he had it. Only as it started to get slightly bigger I got it removed. It was a nodular one took him to the vets to have it removed incase he needed surgery. It cost me £26 in the end the vet did not charge me for removal of it was just the bute and bit of sedation (as was near sheath) I did say he wouldn't bother but I said I don't mind either way not me that would be out of work if he did react. Needless to say the sedation had not even kicked in and a senior vet come and removed it within 5 seconds. Cheapest vet bill I have had.

Depending on where it was and the type of sarcoid would make me think twice but only to have price knocked down that is all.
 
I bought my lad two years ago. Vetting found a small sarcoid on inner hind thigh. It had been previously lasered. Two years on it has tripled in size
 
I bought my lovely mare six and a half years ago, with three. one under chest area but not in way of girth, and two inner thighs. Sarcoids were excluded on the insurance after the vetting, but I still went ahead.... she was the one for me! After four years they had increased and we now had six, one which got really big, about the size of large plum right up between udders and thigh. I paid £1500 to have them all lasered under gen anaesthetic. They have all gone but it was a horrible 4 - 6 weeks for her. That was 2 years ago. She now has a very small one on the front of her chest, but at the moment it is the least of my problems as she is 11 weeks into box rest following a badly torn tendon. Playing in the field! Her recovery, even retired is not looking great for my girl, but I don’t regret buying her ....sarcoids and all!
 
Horse developed one not long after purchase. Multiple others popped up over the following few months. Treatment initially looked successful, but long story short, he was pts 18 months after purchase ��
Would never knowingly buy a horse with sarcoids
 
Vintagehacker said:
How depressing for you, so sorry to hear that. I wish there was a vaccination they could have to stop this virus taking hold. May be one day......!
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I'm copying this so not my own words, I should imagine any type of vaccine is a long way off

Copied:
The exact cause has never conclusively proven but it is strongly believed that the bovine papillomavirus (BPV) plays a role in the development of sarcoids. BVP-like genetic material has been found in a high proportion of sarcoids but no actual virus particle has yet been found
 
I think that's probably a bit out of date


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3557224/


Says this:


It is now well established that equine sarcoids are caused by infection with Bovine Papillomaviruses (BPV) types 1 and 2 [18]. BPV-1/2 are non-enveloped double stranded DNA viruses with a genome of approximately 8kbp that infect their natural host, cattle, causing papillomas of skin or mucosa which generally regress without eliciting any serious clinical problems in the host [19]. None of the treatment strategies for sarcoids directly target the viral infection, although vaccine studies in vivo have been successful [20] and in vitro studies to knock down viral DNA expression are very effective in preventing growth of sarcoid fibroblast


And incidentally, so is canker in the foot, and my horse with sarcoids had both.
 
ycbm said:
I think that's probably a bit out of date


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3557224/


Says this:


It is now well established that equine sarcoids are caused by infection with Bovine Papillomaviruses (BPV) types 1 and 2 [18]. BPV-1/2 are non-enveloped double stranded DNA viruses with a genome of approximately 8kbp that infect their natural host, cattle, causing papillomas of skin or mucosa which generally regress without eliciting any serious clinical problems in the host [19]. None of the treatment strategies for sarcoids directly target the viral infection, although vaccine studies in vivo have been successful [20] and in vitro studies to knock down viral DNA expression are very effective in preventing growth of sarcoid fibroblast


And incidentally, so is canker in the foot, and my horse with sarcoids had both.
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Well that is interesting and a bit more meaty to read
Only thing I didn't quite understand was sarcoids effect all breeds/ages etc of equids

In this short article I have it says and I wondered what follow up studies if any have ever been done <article was published in Dec 2017>
again copied
Interestingly, the gene responsible for the susceptibility to sarcoids is not present in Lipizzaner horses and so the breed appears to be totally resistant
 
Wow! Zebras get them, and one inbred herd has massive rates of them. But Lippizaners have lower risk due to their genes. How incredibly interesting.
 
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Thanks for the link (I wish I was better at biological whatnots and could properly understand all of it though) - I've been convinced that there is some sort of genetic predisposition element to them for ages. The amount of them I've seen on PREs and IDs just seemed too high to be coincidence
 
ester said:
I've not known them need a GA, just heavy standing sedation?
.
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Yes sometimes they do depending where they are.
I know this as my horse developed something strange last year.( Don't want to say too much as it really upset me. )
Vet wanted to laser under GA.
Fortunatley it turned out not to be anything to worry about.
 
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