Spain or France advice please!

[Tonks]

No sure if this is in the correct area on forum... but calling all horse owners who live in Spain or France please.....

My family and I would like to move to either France or Spain and need some advice please from all of those peeps who live there or who have lived there please with their horses. We are both teachers and are considering a move abroad to an International school (weather, son learning new language etc). My husband is a language teacher (German, French, Spanish & English) so any of those languages is not an issue for him. I can speak a bit of Spanish to get by, but my French is non existent.

We own a small DIY livery here in the UK, so would either sell (but ideally rent out initially, to see if we like living abroad). I would like to know however, which areas of France or Spain are the most 'horsey'. I do compete BE eventing, but understand that this is non existent in Spain, but they are into SJ and DR. But, which are the good ideas for competitions and generally doing all things horsey?

However, I understand that they do have 'eventing' in France? France looks much greener that Spain, so what could be some of the issues with keeping horses in France / Spain (enough hay - feed all year round etc - heat?). Also would love to know where some of the best trainers are please.

Property in France looks better - cheaper, more green grass, more space. Any information welcome. Thank you!

 

[Keith_Beef]

The equivalent of eventing over here would be CCE: concours complet d'équitation. I know that a number of people train for that at the centre where I ride.

I don't know other "horsey" towns in Europe, but it would be hard to find anywhere more horsey than Maisons-Laffitte, where I live. Within easy commuting distance for Paris, and with several of those "international schools" dotted around (British School of Paris, American School of Paris, Lycée Internationale de Saint-Germain, Ermitage).

I've never heard anybody complain about feed being unavailable, but I don't talk finance with yard owners. Most horses on the yard are fed pellets, a few are on hay, nowhere in town has pasture (but people lead their horses out to graze under the trees), but you could find pasture if you looked further away (Vexin is a popular area for owners).

 

[Molasses]

Given Theresa May's new immigration rules announcements today I hope you have an EU passport and not just a British passport as this will be very difficult from March 19 for British citizens to do sadly. Ending Freedom of Movement means that you'll be subject to 3rd country rules to move to France or Spain which comes with limitations. Not impossible. But much more difficult and expensive.

 

[Tonks]

Yes it is uncertain but how the EU will respond to the UK's immigration policy is yet to be determined. Seems like there may be US-style visas to visit and work in Europe. However, i do hope that there will be 'mobility concessions' (I'm hoping) for jobs such as teaching [in International schools].

I'm sure the process will be more difficult but no more difficult than applying for a teaching job in Asia or elsewehere internationally. I feel that schools, although having to prove no other EU candidate can fulfill the role, will still choose to prioritise UK staff - especially those that teach the British Curriculum. Fingers crossed anyway......

However, that's why we're job hunting now.

Could anyone please give me some idea about keeping horses in France or Spain please?

Thank you.

 

[Tonks]

The equivalent of eventing over here would be CCE: concours complet d'équitation. I know that a number of people train for that at the centre where I ride.

I don't know other "horsey" towns in Europe, but it would be hard to find anywhere more horsey than Maisons-Laffitte, where I live. Within easy commuting distance for Paris, and with several of those "international schools" dotted around (British School of Paris, American School of Paris, Lycée Internationale de Saint-Germain, Ermitage).

I've never heard anybody complain about feed being unavailable, but I don't talk finance with yard owners. Most horses on the yard are fed pellets, a few are on hay, nowhere in town has pasture (but people lead their horses out to graze under the trees), but you could find pasture if you looked further away (Vexin is a popular area for owners).

Gosh....looks amazing....thanks for your information....I checking out those schools now!

 

[Casey76]

I live in Alsace, and have kept horses on livery here for more than 10 years.

It’s difficult and frustrating

As for eventing, unless you compete at a high level (FEI competitions), the cross country phase is usually restricted to fixed jumps in one or two adjoining paddocks, with the optimum time being around 3-4 minutes.

You will need an FFE license (club, amateur or pro) and French Galop exams to enter any competition; however as an adult, you can start your Galop at any level, without having to do them all sequentially.

I only have experience of horse keeping in Alsace, so in other regions things may be different.

• Feed is cereal based, with horses getting 2-4L three times a day. There is no French branded feed without maize in it
• Hay is often rationed very strictly, with only one or two flakes given twice day
• Boxes may only be mucked out once or twice a week
• Boxes are very small - 3x3m is considered large
• Fields are often closed completely from Oct to April
• On “competition” yards, no turnout at all is normal
• Vet care is at least 20 years behind the UK
• Horse insurance usually only covers basics, no diagnostics, and often only 50% of surgery fees.
• Farriery is almost universally appalling

You may wonder how I’ve managed to keep horses for 10 years lol, but my yard was set up by an English lady, and is run in a more “English” way than most yards in my area. We have turnout every day, the boxes are mucked out every day, I choose to feed my own forage based food. It isn’t ideal, and if you can find any of my threads on here,you’ll see I moan often enough... but my yard, despite it’s foibles, is exponentially better than most yards in my area.

 

[SpringArising]

I only have experience of horse keeping in Alsace, so in other regions things may be different.

• Feed is cereal based, with horses getting 2-4L three times a day. There is no French branded feed without maize in it
• Hay is often rationed very strictly, with only one or two flakes given twice day
• Boxes may only be mucked out once or twice a week
• Boxes are very small - 3x3m is considered large
• Fields are often closed completely from Oct to April
• On “competition” yards, no turnout at all is normal
• Vet care is at least 20 years behind the UK
• Horse insurance usually only covers basics, no diagnostics, and often only 50% of surgery fees.
• Farriery is almost universally appalling

Can confirm this is also true down South...

 

[Tonks]

I live in Alsace, and have kept horses on livery here for more than 10 years.

It’s difficult and frustrating

As for eventing, unless you compete at a high level (FEI competitions), the cross country phase is usually restricted to fixed jumps in one or two adjoining paddocks, with the optimum time being around 3-4 minutes.

You will need an FFE license (club, amateur or pro) and French Galop exams to enter any competition; however as an adult, you can start your Galop at any level, without having to do them all sequentially.

I only have experience of horse keeping in Alsace, so in other regions things may be different.

• Feed is cereal based, with horses getting 2-4L three times a day. There is no French branded feed without maize in it
• Hay is often rationed very strictly, with only one or two flakes given twice day
• Boxes may only be mucked out once or twice a week
• Boxes are very small - 3x3m is considered large
• Fields are often closed completely from Oct to April
• On “competition” yards, no turnout at all is normal
• Vet care is at least 20 years behind the UK
• Horse insurance usually only covers basics, no diagnostics, and often only 50% of surgery fees.
• Farriery is almost universally appalling

You may wonder how I’ve managed to keep horses for 10 years lol, but my yard was set up by an English lady, and is run in a more “English” way than most yards in my area. We have turnout every day, the boxes are mucked out every day, I choose to feed my own forage based food. It isn’t ideal, and if you can find any of my threads on here,you’ll see I moan often enough... but my yard, despite it’s foibles, is exponentially better than most yards in my area.

Sounds complicated regarding competition (and everything else Lol) ......I don't mind swapping to SJ or DR. Is that possible....given my total lack of French.

What about buying property with land??

How about all you Spanish horse owners??...........................

 

[Keith_Beef]

Take a look at "Loger mon Cheval" for Maisons-Laffitte, for example. This gives you an idea of facilities and price.

DIY ("box nu") is typically around €130 (example here, a yard I sometimes ride from) to €160 (example here seems to include straw bedding) per month, often there's an additional annual fee of around €50 .

Stable sizes vary quite a lot, as do presence or not of outdoor arena, covered manège, treadmills, space for gigs or sulkies (these are quite rare, now)... I know of one yard that I imagine was used in the past by a breeder, because there are double-sized stables that I was told were "poulinières", which is normally the term used for a broodmare.

Google Maps satellite view makes it so easy to check the layout of a yard and see the arena.

The best way to find a good farrier (maréchal ferrant) is to go to a yard and ask for recommendations, and to turn up on the day the farrier comes round to watch him work.

I don't know much about feed, but it is possible to get pellets without maize, soy, rapeseed, but it seems to always have an English or a German name. Look here and here for examples.

Showjumping and dressage without knowing much French shouldn't be a problem; you'll need a bit of vocabulary for classes, maybe, but filling out forms to get your Federation licence and for entering competitions shouldn't be a problem if your husband (or Google translate) is to hand; it'll just take a few minutes longer.

As for buying property, it's like the UK in that properties are vastly more expensive when you get closer to the capital, but also as you get to secondary cities like Bordeaux, Lille, Strasbourg, Marseille, Nice.

 

[Tonks]

Take a look at "Loger mon Cheval" for Maisons-Laffitte, for example. This gives you an idea of facilities and price.

DIY ("box nu") is typically around €130 (example here, a yard I sometimes ride from) to €160 (example here seems to include straw bedding) per month, often there's an additional annual fee of around €50 .

Stable sizes vary quite a lot, as do presence or not of outdoor arena, covered manège, treadmills, space for gigs or sulkies (these are quite rare, now)... I know of one yard that I imagine was used in the past by a breeder, because there are double-sized stables that I was told were "poulinières", which is normally the term used for a broodmare.

Google Maps satellite view makes it so easy to check the layout of a yard and see the arena.

The best way to find a good farrier (maréchal ferrant) is to go to a yard and ask for recommendations, and to turn up on the day the farrier comes round to watch him work.

Thank you again, how easy is it to buy your own house/farm with land? Looks reasonably cheap compared to UK prices.

 

[Tonks]

Thank you again, how easy is it to buy your own house/farm with land? Looks reasonably cheap compared to UK prices.

The prices quoted were quite reasonable, I thought. Spain looks much more expensive for livery and to buy.

 

[Shady]

Thank you again, how easy is it to buy your own house/farm with land? Looks reasonably cheap compared to UK prices.

I'm down in South East France , about 120k from Toulouse, there is an international school there.
It is very easy to find a house / farm with land but you need to do your homework on area's and climate, also transport links back to England if you need them
. It is very hot in my area( Midi Pyrenees) and you need to consider how you feel about long summers of 30-40 degree's heat. I can tell you that working in it day after day is exhausting and the only people who benefit from it are retired !
Look on Greenacres for houses with land, just pick an area and search, it will give you an idea but is not necessarily the cheapest way and never offer the asking price if the house is french owned, it will have many things wrong with it, most where you can't see them( i renovate them, have done for 13 years now )
I can't offer too much on yards and competing but Casey and Keith have it about right!
PM me if you see anything for sale that you want me to roughly cast my eye over, happy to help

 

[Apercrumbie]

Buying property in France is a lot cheaper than the UK but very difficult - and almost impossible to do remotely as the bureaucratic hoops often require you to be there in person arguing with Monsieur/Madame le Maire.

I can't help you with the competition scene because I avoided it while I was there, but I agree with Shady - do think carefully about climate. I'm naturally at home in the South but having horses there is not fun - think serious heat and flies. Brits tend to find northern France easier in that respect.

Can you trim feet? It would be an excellent skill to learn if not because I agree with Casey76 - the farriery is appalling by our standards.

 

[Cortez]

I don't currently live in Spain (give me time....), but I have worked with horses in Spain and Portugal. The north of Spain (Galicia) is much wetter and greener than the south (Andalucia), but I would say that the south is the horsiest (there is a member on here who is living in Galicia, she would be worth chatting to). There are people who event, and do SJ and dressage, but most people in Spain who ride do so in the Spanish tradition of Doma Vaquera and Alta Escuela, on Spanish horses. There are many riding clubs and livery yards with professional trainers, and I find the standard of teaching very high. There are of course bad yards, bad riders and trainers, as there are everywhere.

Most of my experience is in the Cadiz province, and around Malaga. It's hot in summer, there are flies. If you are in the mountains it will be very cold in the winter. There is no pasture as such, certainly not in the summer. The hay (heno) looks like straw, there is baled alfalfa available. Most horses are fed straight oats (LOTS of oats). Horses are not routinely turned out, although many are kept in corrals where they can roam about.

The thing to remember about both France and Spain (and anywhere else, really...) is that things will not be done the British way, and rather than getting pissy about that it is best to just accept that there are different, and not necessarily worse, ways to do things. Shoeing is different, but I don't see any more lame horses than I do in the UK. Feeding is different, but I don't see nearly as many obese horses, and no more thin ones than I have seen in the UK. Riding is different too, and I see waaaay more highly trained horses and accomplished riders there. There is a fb group for english riders and owners, you might have a look on there?

 

[Follysmum]

A friend of mine was seriously looking to go to France but after this summer being so hot and being over run with flies she has had a change of heart . She said no way would she take her horses into that environment as it wouldn’t be fair on them. She will wait until her horses are no longer with her then buy some French horses which are already climatized.

 

[Cortez]

A friend of mine was seriously looking to go to France but after this summer being so hot and being over run with flies she has had a change of heart . She said no way would she take her horses into that environment as it wouldn’t be fair on them. She will wait until her horses are no longer with her then buy some French horses which are already climatized.

I have several friends who have brought their UK horses with them, including hairy cobs, Friesians and other "not hot" type horses, and they have all acclimatized well (better than their owners, in some cases ).

 

[Shady]

A friend of mine was seriously looking to go to France but after this summer being so hot and being over run with flies she has had a change of heart . She said no way would she take her horses into that environment as it wouldn’t be fair on them. She will wait until her horses are no longer with her then buy some French horses which are already climatized.

This is a good point also although i do agree with Cortez that many do adapt to the heat , you both have to change how you live, but past a certain heat , nothing copes as iv'e found this year and i have an Australian bred Arab and a PRE from Seville. There is just no escape anywhere and the impact damage from rock hard land and tracks stops you being able to enjoy your horses. I haven't seen any rain for over 3 months , have no grass and hay is going to be hard to find for many this winter. With climate change this could be the norm so again it's worth considering when you pick a region. I am going to look at the Dordogne next year where it's horsey and a little greener

 

[Sarah W]

Have you considered Portugal? Much cheaper property than France, much greener that Spain, several international schools and a great horse culture!

 

[Rollin]

We are in France, Pays de la Loire. Currently we have no grass but this has been an exceptional hot dry summer. We have been here for 12 years no trouble finding hay, straw, feed, good vets. Not found a farrier to match our chap in Scotland. We chose this area for the climate not too hot or cold the French refer to Doucer Angevine. There is a Salon du Coeval in Angers in November the publicity came with useful stats. Number One region for Equestrian Businesses and employment. 570 equestrian centres affiliated to FFE. 50 Hippodromes. 70,000 horses.

If you are intersted in Eventing don't mis Mondial Lion D'Angers weekend of 20th October. Three day event for 6 and 7 year old horses. Eventing also at Saumur home of the Cadre Noir.

 

[Becca-84]

I lived in Spain for 10 years, in the Alicante region. I bought my horses there so can't comment on acclimatization, but it is hard work having horses there. There is no hay, only alfalfa, which my horse developed an intolerance to, although I thought his itchiness was sweet itch due to the unrelenting mosquitos, and did not diagnose until getting to UK.

The Spanish do not turn out. I had mine at home so they were out 24/7, unless it rained, when everywhere would flood. Livery when I was there (7 years ago now) was on average 200euro a month, no DIY option. They all get fed the same grain feed and dried alfalfa instead of hay. The Spanish don't hack either and I got some very strange looks for doing so.

My area was predominantly dressage oriented. Competition was pretty non existent unless you were willing to travel pretty long distances and some of their training methods are.....eye opening.

Sorry to be so negative! I left on a rather sorry ending and found the Spaniards attitudes to foreigners, particularly Brits, was becoming difficult after the financial crash in 2008.

 

[Rasadi]

I live in France, and love it. Vets are not as advanced as in the uk but there are plenty of equine specialists if you can travel. I now have a great farrier but many are not great. Land houses are much cheaper than the uk, but wages are lower! Feed is changing all the time with more low sugar foods available competition is different but fantastic I love it

 

[MDB]

I live in northern Spain which is green and lush like Ireland or Scotland... except the weather is better!
Property is very cheap, pace of life is slower, the people are very friendly and extremely welcoming. I often end up chatting to someone new and end up at their house either for coffee or for a gift from the veggie garden. Just last week I was given a watermelon from someone I had just met 20 minutes earlier and got chatting to! Sometimes I will be given bags of lemons or kiwis or sacks of potatoes from a neighbour. They really go out of their way to help you and make you feel at home.
We have a house with several acres of land for the horses.
I don't compete so I cannot tell you what that scene is like here, but throughout spring, summer and autumn there are organised 'rutas' all over the place each weekend, which are basically organised trail rides of around 20km. Normally there is coffee before leaving, snacks and refreshments at the half way point and then a massive meal and party afterewards which goes on until 9pm or later.
There is definitely more men than women ride here, and there is a macho element to it. There are practices and ways of doing things that are very different to the uk. They can be a bit brutal with their horses. They don't pamper them like we do in the UK. In saying that, the horses are very well behaved in general. Sometimes there are over 100 horses on these rides. There are stallions, mares and geldings, all riding together and I have never seen any trouble. They will tie their horses up for 4 or 5 hours afterward during the meal and the horses are impeccably behaved.
My horses are barefoot and there is the odd barefoot trimmer around. I set up a track system and I strip graze the paddocks and supplement with hay and linseed. There are plenty of stores that sell and can order you feed and stock hay because many, many people own horses here. In fact I am sure there are more horses than cows here!
From October to about May/June the grass is lush and green. The temperatures vary here because inland is hilly and mountainous, so quite high altitudes compared to the coast. So we get frosts and snow in winter and in summer days over 30 deg. Closer to the coast there are rarely frosts in winter, and in summer the sea keeps the high temperatures a little lower.
For quality of living and value for money, I think you would be hard to beat northern Spain. You will need to learn Spanish though. Just enough to get by with the basics. I would check out Galicia, Asturias and Cantabria.

 

[MDB]

https://www.galicianrustic.com

 

[Tonks]

Thank you so much for all the very helpful information. My husband now has a job interview on Friday for an International school in Barcelona. I think I would prefer France myself but beggers can't be choosers..... Of course, he may not get so will have to wait and see......

Is there anyone from Barcelona on the forum here please....would love to know about yards, buying and competitions please...

Again, than you everyone for the information.

 

[Tonks]

Have you considered Portugal? Much cheaper property than France, much greener that Spain, several international schools and a great horse culture!

Thank you. I have looked at Portugal and it would make sense as my brother in law and his family live in the south. However, neither of us speak Portuguese and would ideally like our son to learn Spanish or French (or both!). It does look lovely and property looks cheap...Do they do much in the way of DR or SJ competition?

 

[Rollin]

Folly's mum. Summer temps here in Pays de la Loire not much greater than home counties, this summer. Difference is we don't get as much rain and lots of horses in this region live out all year without rugs. Flies and midges were a huge problem when we lived in Scotland - worse in fact because we could not turn out at night which we do here.

 

[Tonks]

I live in northern Spain which is green and lush like Ireland or Scotland... except the weather is better!
Property is very cheap, pace of life is slower, the people are very friendly and extremely welcoming. I often end up chatting to someone new and end up at their house either for coffee or for a gift from the veggie garden. Just last week I was given a watermelon from someone I had just met 20 minutes earlier and got chatting to! Sometimes I will be given bags of lemons or kiwis or sacks of potatoes from a neighbour. They really go out of their way to help you and make you feel at home.
We have a house with several acres of land for the horses.
I don't compete so I cannot tell you what that scene is like here, but throughout spring, summer and autumn there are organised 'rutas' all over the place each weekend, which are basically organised trail rides of around 20km. Normally there is coffee before leaving, snacks and refreshments at the half way point and then a massive meal and party afterewards which goes on until 9pm or later.
There is definitely more men than women ride here, and there is a macho element to it. There are practices and ways of doing things that are very different to the uk. They can be a bit brutal with their horses. They don't pamper them like we do in the UK. In saying that, the horses are very well behaved in general. Sometimes there are over 100 horses on these rides. There are stallions, mares and geldings, all riding together and I have never seen any trouble. They will tie their horses up for 4 or 5 hours afterward during the meal and the horses are impeccably behaved.
My horses are barefoot and there is the odd barefoot trimmer around. I set up a track system and I strip graze the paddocks and supplement with hay and linseed. There are plenty of stores that sell and can order you feed and stock hay because many, many people own horses here. In fact I am sure there are more horses than cows here!
From October to about May/June the grass is lush and green. The temperatures vary here because inland is hilly and mountainous, so quite high altitudes compared to the coast. So we get frosts and snow in winter and in summer days over 30 deg. Closer to the coast there are rarely frosts in winter, and in summer the sea keeps the high temperatures a little lower.
For quality of living and value for money, I think you would be hard to beat northern Spain. You will need to learn Spanish though. Just enough to get by with the basics. I would check out Galicia, Asturias and Cantabria.

Buenos dias y muchas Grasias por tu informacion. Yo sé eso Barcelona es muy lejos para ti, pues se puedes darme informacion acerca de a mantener los caballos ahi??

Thank you. My husband now has a job interview in Barcelona. I know that's quite a way from you but do you know anything about keeping horses there?

Have looked at Galicia and it looks beautiful....not so many International Schools, though?

 

[Follysmum]

Folly's mum. Summer temps here in Pays de la Loire not much greater than home counties, this summer. Difference is we don't get as much rain and lots of horses in this region live out all year without rugs. Flies and midges were a huge problem when we lived in Scotland - worse in fact because we could not turn out at night which we do here.

Thanks for your reply, I think as friends horses are aged ( 25 28) she’s being probably being a bit more cautious and wary.

 

[MDB]

Buenos dias y muchas Grasias por tu informacion. Yo sé eso Barcelona es muy lejos para ti, pues se puedes darme informacion acerca de a mantener los caballos ahi??

Thank you. My husband now has a job interview in Barcelona. I know that's quite a way from you but do you know anything about keeping horses there?

Have looked at Galicia and it looks beautiful....not so many International Schools, though?

I have no idea about Barcelona, sorry.
I guess there may be more international schools in the cities, but don't rule out Asturias and Cantabria too with their big cities like Santander.
I have many, many friends here in Galicia that teach English in English language academies. English teachers are in high demand, and my friends teach a variety of classes from young children after school to adults. They all seem to follow the Cambridge exam system if that makes any sense to you.
Good luck with your move anyways.

 

[Rollin]

When we moved here my first horse was also in his 20's. we too were concerned about the move. We expected him to live for another few years. He lived to be 36 years of age.