Spangle caught by fox snare nr public footpath

[Arkmiido]

Was out running today with the dog pack (collie, dalmatian, cocker spangle) on a route I normally use because they can all stay off lead - all have good recall and "leave" commands and will come back if I see someone out. Poppy was nosing in the edge of a wood which I thought was fenced, as I know it contains pheasant pens, and therefore thought she'd be unlikely to bother the birds anyway... I kept running round to the side of the wood, noticed no Poppy with me... Called her, then went back to look as it's odd when she doesn't come scampering at my heels, followed the sudden barking/howling to find her with a thin wire noose around her neck that I couldn't get her out of, she could barely breathe. Managed to un-attach the far end from it's post and get her out of the hedge into the light so I could see, had to call for help to get her taken home by car (the pliers in the 4x4 wouldn't cut the wire) and eventually managed to cut her out of a more tightened noose when we got home - she's unscathed, luckily, but I dread to think how she would have been if I hadn't gone back to find her quickly, and if she hadn't had the good sense to stay still when she realised she was caught.

I know my dog shouldn't have been investigating the edge of a wood, that contained pheasants but dogs do scamper around off lead to either side of a public path... I don't know many dogs that will stay exactly on a footpath through a field when let off to run free around you! Should the game keeper have warned of such hazards/had a "keep dogs on leads" sign up or something? From what I can see, these kind of snares aren't illegal and I don't have an issue with legitimate fox control (funnily enough!!) but I'd have been rather upset to find a dead pet dog near a path that I've walked for decades.

 

[Dizzydancer]

Yes i think a courtesy letter to warn of presence of them. Its like farmers round here when they spray chemicals they put up signs on stiles to say so you don't let dogs eat grass.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Keepers don't want to publicise the fact that they snare for a number of reasons, sabotage being one of them...my ex was an underkeeper and I'd always keep dogs on leads around pens for a variety of reasons, the main one being I don't want them to grab a free lunch, but you've just reminded me of another good reason!

Although for a dog of that size to get stuck in a snare is a bit of a freak occurrence, glad she is OK.

 

[rossiroo]

I am really sorry that your dog got hurt, but if you had him/her on a lead it would not have happened, if the dog strayed onto private property was it not tresspassing? I don't mean to be rude but perhaps you should keep them on a lead for their own sake or let them off in a suitable safe area.

 

[Dobiegirl]

I hate snares, they are cruel and indiscriminate, I would love for them to be illegal.

OP so glad your dog is ok, it dosnt bear thinking about what could have happened if your dog had panicked.

 

[littlemisslauren]

Glad your dog is ok.

My last Border Terrier very nearly died after spending hours struggling to get free from a snare set at the entrance to a badger set. He had done a runner (That dog could get out of any fence in his youth!) and we couldnt find him anywhere. He crawled home and collapsed in a pool of blood follwed by a man with very cut up hands The man had heard Charlie grumbling and hurt himself when freeing him and saving his life. I was only about 11 at the time and I was beside myself. He was ok, just exhausted and cut to shreds.

Purely from my own experience of how horrific snares can be I would like to see them banned. I am pro hunt but I fail to see how effective snares even are if my dog was alive and struggling for so long?

 

[devonlass]

I'm not totally sure I even know what a snare is these days,but am thinking thin piece of wire attached to a stake of some sort that tightens as animal tries to run?? Is it designed to grab them at ground level on the leg or set higher to get them around the neck??

Sounds hideous whichever it is quite frankly.

Was this on the footpath or near it?? Isn't that illegal,what if a person got caught in it somehow (ok not even sure if that's possible but thinking of a small child/toddler),or someones dog that was on a lead??

I appreciate the need to control foxes (well actually I don't if it's just to protect pheasants for commercial gain,but that's another subject entirely),but that method sounds decidedly haphazard and like an accident waiting to happen TBH.

Glad your dog ok (and you must have been quite a panic at the time) and think letting whoever sets them know what happened so can either amend or warn people would be a good plan.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Are snares legal?

 

[Dobiegirl]

Yes there are legal, you are not allowed to set them to catch deer,badgers and another Ive forgotten. But snares cant discriminate so cats,dogs etc can all fall victim.

 

[Dry Rot]

Lots of rules and regulations about snares, one being that there ought to be a stop on the snare to prevent it closing beyond a certain diameter, the idea being that they will hold rather than strangle. They also have to be visited regularly at set intervals.

Anyone who has lambed ewes in the Scottish Highlands will probably have encountered lambing ewes that have been attacked by foxes when they are incapacitated (while lambing). The fox usually goes for the soft tissue which is the anus or the udder, sometimes behind the shoulder. The ewe will still be alive, of course, and the fox is not too bothered about that.

Perhaps when you've seen a few cases like that (or every one of a pen of pheasants you've carefully nurtured from the egg slaughtered, apparently for nothing more than fun) you'd think differently about snares. The short answer is that snares work where probably nothing else would. They are legal and if your dog goes into one on private property, it is deemed "out of control". The car driver who runs over your dog because you let it loose on the motorway wouldn't be at fault either. Sorry to be so hard but foxes are not the dear little things you see on Fox Watch.

 

[ladyt25]

Lots of rules and regulations about snares, one being that there ought to be a stop on the snare to prevent it closing beyond a certain diameter, the idea being that they will hold rather than strangle. They also have to be visited regularly at set intervals.

Anyone who has lambed ewes in the Scottish Highlands will probably have encountered lambing ewes that have been attacked by foxes when they are incapacitated (while lambing). The fox usually goes for the soft tissue which is the anus or the udder, sometimes behind the shoulder. The ewe will still be alive, of course, and the fox is not too bothered about that.

Perhaps when you've seen a few cases like that (or every one of a pen of pheasants you've carefully nurtured from the egg slaughtered, apparently for nothing more than fun) you'd think differently about snares. The short answer is that snares work where probably nothing else would. They are legal and if your dog goes into one on private property, it is deemed "out of control". The car driver who runs over your dog because you let it loose on the motorway wouldn't be at fault either. Sorry to be so hard but foxes are not the dear little things you see on Fox Watch.

I disagree - foxes don't do things "for fun". It's just instinct and sure, it's horrid if they attack lambs/ewes but again it's just their instinct to do this for survival. They are a predator at the end of the day. As for 'nuturing' pheasants - yeah, for what? To be shot FOR FUN!!! It is only humans that seem to like to kill animals for enjoyment after all.

Very glad the OP's dog is relatively unscathed - I think snares are disgusting things and should be illegal

 

[RuthM]

Dry Rot, I'm curious, you sound like you work with animals and as such I'm not really sure how such anthropomorphism occurs? In your post you'd think foxes were like mini animal chavs beating up the disabled, rather than an animal with a strong hunting drive which has held it off any endangered list rather well, in fact foxes thrive in numerous environments, omnivores, opportunists, hunters, carrion eaters - quite amazing.

I can imagine that gnawing at live sheep would make a person do battle but do battle with an animal not by re-writing the whole thing so that it's something 'bad' or evil. It's just so absurd to read.

 

[Clodagh]

Snares are often the only way to catch foxes, round here they are too canny to go into traps and you can only lamp them this time of year when the crops are cut. Snares should have a stop to prevent the wire going too deep, trouble is a foxes neck is pretty skinny so even with a stop it would still be tight on a dog. I would keep your dog away from release pens and I'm glad she is OK.

When foxes kill my chickens I know they are only doing it out of instinct, not personal vindictiveness but it still makes me want to control them.

 

[inamac]

The DEFRA guidance on setting legal snares (designed to hold, but not injure the animal) specifically advises that "Snares must not be set on or near public footpaths, rights of way, near housing and areas regularly used for exercising domestic animals to avoid capturing pets."

As this was near a public footpath it looks as though the person responsible hasn't been complying with the rules.

 

[Alec Swan]

.......

I know my dog shouldn't have been investigating the edge of a wood, that contained pheasants but dogs do scamper around off lead to either side of a public path...

.......

Perhaps you've learned a lesson. Dogs which are "Under Control" are either at heal, or on a lead.

If your dogs wont run beside you, whilst you're out running, then keep them on a lead. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, that isn't my intent, but far too many assume that a right of way extends to 50 yards, or further, either side of a path. It doesn't. A Right of Way, is just that, it's a right of passage over someone else's land. Nothing more, or less than that.

Those who are employed to produce game have a hard enough time without having to contend with the general public and their dogs.

I haven't set a wire for a fox in 20 years, so I'm unsure of the current legislation, but even when I used self locking snares, I found several dogs, who were sitting quietly. Some were pleased to see me, whilst others weren't!! Those that were a little disgruntled presented a bit of a challenge, but all were eventually removed safely, and without any harm to them, or me!

Alec.

 

[Miss L Toe]

OP has allowed her dog to roam near pheasant pens, to me this is stupid, any hunting dog is more than likely to chase a prey animal and ignore its owner. I don't like snares, and think most gamekeepers can eliminate most foxes by shooting them, but there is no way snares will be stopped, so it is up to dog owners to take care.
Farmers should also keep foxes under control and keep their sheep under surveillance, they are often the worse offenders when it comes to animal welfare, not all of them just some of them.
Bridleways are not there to give dog owners an opportunity to run dogs loose in a field, they should be kept close to the owner and the path. On a lead if there are animals in the field.
No wonder farmers get annoyed.

 

[Dizzydancer]

I may be mistaken but it sounds to me like the OPs was running on footpath at edge of woods which dog sniffed the edge of and ended up snared.
I for one walk my dog off lead in fields with no livestock in or on extendible if livestock and he sniffs hedges its natural if he got snared for poking head in too far i wouldn't be happy.

 

[amy_b]

I haven't set a wire for a fox in 20 years, so I'm unsure of the current legislation, but even when I used self locking snares, I found several dogs, who were sitting quietly. Some were pleased to see me, whilst others weren't!! Those that were a little disgruntled presented a bit of a challenge, but all were eventually removed safely, and without any harm to them, or me!

Alec.

I wonder if because domestic dogs are used to having a collar on and being tied up they panic less, whereas a fox would panic and probably choke itself to death/ break its neck quicker (sorry, not being graphic to upset people - I have no experience of snares!! )

personally, I think as others have said if s/he was on a lead it wouldnt have happened and as far as i'm aware the law (?) is to keep them on a lead. However if the snare was ON the footpath I think it would be a different story. I can also see why there aren't any signs telling you, there wouldnt be any snares to warn about once people got wind of them.

ps glad poochie is ok

 

[stencilface]

I don't like fox snares, and don't see why they are legal given that its not legal to trap some animals in them, yet the snare can't discriminate

Yes, I am well aware foxes do their own kind of damage to livelihoods, and sadly you can't do much about sheep if they are not kept in (but then how many times have you seen a dead sheep left in the field for days, or crippled sheep on 3 legs that the farmer seems not to care about?) but the whole pheasant pen argument I don't see tbh. If they are in a pen, make it so the fox can't get in - we make cages to keep lions in, surely a fox proof pen isn't that hard? Pheasants are stupid anyway, and losses on the roads will surely be greater than losses to a fox?

Plus, pheasants are not native, so livelihood or not, fox has the upperhand imho.

OP sorry to hear about your dog, my dog too runs off lead on paths, and of course he has a snuffle in the edges/hedges, he would be on lead if near any livestock. Loose pheasants don't count as livestock imho as they are escapees that shouldn't be loose in this country, in fact it should be doing the nation a favour if my dog kills one, no? I have pheasants in my garden year round, with babies, these ones have not been bred for a shoot, as many others haven't.

 

[Dry Rot]

Dry Rot, I'm curious, you sound like you work with animals and as such I'm not really sure how such anthropomorphism occurs? In your post you'd think foxes were like mini animal chavs beating up the disabled, rather than an animal with a strong hunting drive which has held it off any endangered list rather well, in fact foxes thrive in numerous environments, omnivores, opportunists, hunters, carrion eaters - quite amazing.

I can imagine that gnawing at live sheep would make a person do battle but do battle with an animal not by re-writing the whole thing so that it's something 'bad' or evil. It's just so absurd to read.

I write in the language the reader is likely to understand. Those who think foxes are dear little fluffy animals need to have things explained in story book terms that they can understand. Like the suggestions that rogue foxes can be identified and selectively culled. I'd like a practical demonstration of that!

Foxes are opportunists and they are very quick to learn from experience. Yes, I probably do get a bit emotional when the damage they can do is under estimated or disbelieved. And, yes, foxes do take advantage of the disabled when ever they can and a pregnant ewe on its back is a prime target!

Edited to say that there is a government report that states that a fox can kill a live healthy lamb up to 10kgs in weight.

 

[RuthM]

I write in the language the reader is likely to understand. Those who think foxes are dear little fluffy animals need to have things explained in story book terms that they can understand. Like the suggestions that rogue foxes can be identified and selectively culled. I'd like a practical demonstration of that!

Foxes are opportunists and they are very quick to learn from experience. Yes, I probably do get a bit emotional when the damage they can do is under estimated or disbelieved. And, yes, foxes do take advantage of the disabled when ever they can and a pregnant ewe on its back is a prime target!

Edited to say that there is a government report that states that a fox can kill a live healthy lamb up to 10kgs in weight.

I think the emotion certainly comes across it's just a way of speaking and thinking that does nothing to persuade me, I happen to also believe that expressing disdain to those who don't agree is not that persuasive either. You might be surprised to find that there are plenty who disagree with snares that don't need story book language. (I have no experience of snares and therefore no opinion).

I am aware of the irony in my own blunt language but at the very least it isn't deliberately childish.

But, I should have said this first post, I'm glad the dog is ok, and IF rules say snares should not be near foot paths then they should not.

 

[Dobiegirl]

Lots of rules and regulations about snares, one being that there ought to be a stop on the snare to prevent it closing beyond a certain diameter, the idea being that they will hold rather than strangle. They also have to be visited regularly at set intervals.


Who enforces these rules and regulations and checks they are visited regularly? the short answer is no one. Snares belong in museums along with man traps.

 

[Luci07]

Foxes are the only animal who will wipe out a pen of chickens rather than take one to eat so not pro foxes at all..not pro snares but am realistic about it takes to keep foxes under control. Sorry about your dog OP and glad she is alright now.

 

[Dobiegirl]

Foxes are ruthless killers there is no doubt about it but when I had my flock of free range hens I never lost one. This was because of good husbandry, they were all housed in sturdy fox proof houses,were locked up at night without fail and their field was surrounded by mains electric fencer.

The farmer down the road who keeps flocks of pedigree rare sheep has also never lost a lamb or ewe either because of his electric fencing but this is as much to keep dogs out as foxes.

 

[Miss L Toe]

RE placing of fox snares, they are put in a fox route, which is easily identified by a country person, I am supposing that badgers have their own routes, so it is easy not to snare them.
Rabbit snares are set in rabbit routes and so on.

 

[s4sugar]

I lost half my free range chickens to a fox many years ago in the middle of the day.
They will kill many & take just one to eat.
We are overrun with bunnies here but the foxes don't bather hunting them as they prefer easier quarry.
It doesn't help when town bunnyhuggers release the foxes they trap into the countryside and these mangy animals don't hunt at all but just scavenge -mainly from wheelie bins.
If the OP's dog was in an area she "thought" was fenced it was too far away. Glad the dog recovered but please keep dogs under close control & in sight when crossing farmland.

 

[Miss L Toe]

Foxes are the only animal who will wipe out a pen of chickens rather than take one to eat so not pro foxes at all..not pro snares but am realistic about it takes to keep foxes under control. Sorry about your dog OP and glad she is alright now.

This is because the hens are kept in an un natural environment, ie a cage. If hens are allowed to roost in trees the fox will only take an odd one, not all all in one go.

 

[stencilface]

RE placing of fox snares, they are put in a fox route, which is easily identified by a country person, I am supposing that badgers have their own routes, so it is easy not to snare them.
Rabbit snares are set in rabbit routes and so on.

Well, it is true that badgers and foxes will have runs they use to go from feeding areas to their sett/den but these aren't exactly set in stone, and I'm sure badgers don't realise they're not supposed to use the fox ones, but if there's a choice between no path and path, I think they'd take it

 

[s4sugar]

This is because the hens are kept in an un natural environment, ie a cage. If hens are allowed to roost in trees the fox will only take an odd one, not all all in one go.

Many foxes nowadays hunt by day and will clear out chickens that are not confined.

 

[stencilface]

We are overrun with bunnies here but the foxes don't bather hunting them as they prefer easier quarry.

Well you can hardly blame them, I bet not many of us forage for our complete diet when there's a 24 hour tescos down the road! Badly made chicken coop = tescos for foxes imho.