Spanish (PRE) Horse People - some questions for you

Andiamo

Andiamo

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Hi Spanish Horse People,

I am buying my first PRE, a 5 yr old, he'll be arriving in about 2 weeks (mid April). I am actually switching teams - from warmblood to PRE :)) and really excited for him to arrive :))) He's gorgeous!!

So, here goes:

1) Is there anything in particular I need to ask the vet to look for in the vetting? i.e. is there any particular issue that PRE's are susceptible to? (vetting is in a few days)

2) If I have been provided with Xrays from 2010 Feb - should I get another set done? Or are these horses sufficiently strongly built that another set of xrays won't be required? (vet is doing a big sales pitch to get to buy a whole new set) I'll be getting the back Xrayed for kissing spines (just a personal thing, I'm paranoid about KS).

3) Dressage Saddle - I am thinking of either a Bates Innova or an Amerigo. What do you prefer for your PRE's? What do the horses seem to prefer?

4) Dressage bit - I am looking at getting a Sprenger Dynamic RS Bradoon bit for him. http://www.dressagedeluxe.co.uk/Shop.asp?viewmode=ViewProduct&productid=971 - what are your thoughts? Is there any kind of bit that you prefer for your PRE's?

5) Do I need to get him registered with BAPSH?

6) Breeding is Navarrete (Financiero III X Inesperada II) X Valenciana XXXIII (Kisquilloso) - do you know anything about these lines?
 
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having probs getting images onto an HHO thread, is there usually a problem with Flickr links?
 
On the X rays if you were planning on getting x rays then get them re done and get access to the old ones. The vet can compare if there is any degeneration or changes.
 
He looks gorgeous (pics work for me)!! I am a bit biased towards a bay PRE though ;-)

Check out the BAPSH website for useful information - the forum is a bit quiet but if you're a member you can sign up for the Members section which has a lot of useful articles. I've added some responses below.

My boy settled in well last year, but he did have a few niggles and I wonder if the journey (5 days with John Parker) took more out of him than we realised. For our next horse, I'll give him a real break when he arrives and bring him into work slowly. Obviously be careful with the English grass too as they can be prone to lami, we treated P like an ex-racer and built up turn-out from 30 minutes a day over a few weeks. Also, Spanish horses tend to react badly to sugarbeet so avoid it or stick to speedibeet ;)

Happy to answer any other questions, though I'm something of a PRE amateur compared to some people on here!!

Andiamo said:
Hi Spanish Horse People,

I am buying my first PRE, a 5 yr old, he'll be arriving in about 2 weeks (mid April). I am actually switching teams - from warmblood to PRE :)) and really excited for him to arrive :))) He's gorgeous!!

So, here goes:

1) Is there anything in particular I need to ask the vet to look for in the vetting? i.e. is there any particular issue that PRE's are susceptible to? (vetting is in a few days)

- Not that I'm aware of but there are probably more experienced people on here! I think SirenaXVI breeds PREs so worth asking her

2) If I have been provided with Xrays from 2010 Feb - should I get another set done? Or are these horses sufficiently strongly built that another set of xrays won't be required? (vet is doing a big sales pitch to get to buy a whole new set) I'll be getting the back Xrayed for kissing spines (just a personal thing, I'm paranoid about KS).

- I've never had x-rays done, but I would say that (a) Spanish horses are late maturing (my rising 6yo still had very open growth plates on his knees last autumn) and (b) they tend to do a lot of collected work quite young, so I'd be tempted to have the hocks done

3) Dressage Saddle - I am thinking of either a Bates Innova or an Amerigo. What do you prefer for your PRE's? What do the horses seem to prefer?

- Mine has very little wither and a flat back, and is in a Farrington's. Our saddler does supply Strada saddles, who make a specific saddle for Iberians, but he thinks that the Farrington is better quality (and also £500 cheaper...). I know a few Spanish owners swear by Thorowgoods, particularly for younger horses who will change shape once they get on the English grass (!) but my boy's back is too flat for these

4) Dressage bit - I am looking at getting a Sprenger Dynamic RS Bradoon bit for him. http://www.dressagedeluxe.co.uk/Shop.asp?viewmode=ViewProduct&productid=971 - what are your thoughts? Is there any kind of bit that you prefer for your PRE's?

- That looks fine. I had mine in a lozenge happy mouth and he's now in a gentle Myler (can't remember the name). They tend to have a low palette so single-jointed bits are a no-no

5) Do I need to get him registered with BAPSH?

- Yes, they are the passport authority here. Email the registrar, Mary McBryde, and she'll send the paperwork so you can transfer his passport. It's very straightforwards! Is he a stallion or a gelding? If a stallion, you have to do an additional registration to show him but Mary can explain that to you

6) Breeding is Navarrete (Financiero III X Inesperada II) X Valenciana XXXIII (Kisquilloso) - do you know anything about these lines?
Click to expand...

- Have a look at http://www.gescabonline.com/ - if you put it in google translate you can work out how to find their genealogy! You can pay 5 euros for a day. I spent an extremely geeky few hours going through my horses' lines and I was surprised and happy to find out that my little bay is Yeguada Militar lines and my next one is Pallares (Carthusian) lines :) And also that my bay shares a grand-sire with Andrew Gould's new PRE, Habanero http://www.naomivancewebb.com/article.php/HABANEROXLI Obviously they look very similar (*ahem*)
 
hi j!ffy,
that's really helpful information, thank you so much.
I'd love to see a pic of your bay PRE - can you post up a piccie?
My new boy is a gelding, he was gelded Oct 2010, not that long ago.

Good to know about the transport tips and settling in tips.
I had a horse transported from Germany 3 years ago, it took 3 days, well, I don't know what happened in that trip, but he's never loaded well since...he's horrified of lorries. It's been a real issue. So, I'm being really careful about the transporter - and making sure they do a straight-through trip without any other pickups/dropoffs. He's not coming from too far away though - he lives in Belgium. Which also means he's had some grass, but nothing like what he'll get in the juicy lush fields he's about to get to know well ;)) So, I'll be gradually increasing his access to grass, he's going to think he's in paradise :)
Good to know about the issue with sugarbeet, I'll be careful to let the yard know. I will also give time for him to settle in. I had planned to lunge / turnout for a week before getting on...is this not enough?

Good to know about the geneology website as well, thanks for that.

For the saddles, I want to get something with an adjustable tree so that it can be changed as he fills out. The Bates have an adjustable tree system
so I thought that would work...anyway, I'll get a pro saddler out once Remador arrives, and also ask the horse what he prefers ;)) I'm sure he'll let me know :) He's been ridden in a Stubben in Belgium, but the owner also rides her Carthusian stallion in it who's twice the width of Remador...so I'm sure anything will be an improvement for my little chap!

By the way, I had a go on the owner's Carthusian stallion - all I can say is WOW, WOW,WOW. I asked the owner if she'd include him in the purchase ;)) but she wasn't keen on the idea :)) He's an absolute stunner and a dream to ride. I don't have any piccies of him unfortunately as my camera died while I was out there.

Thanks for the link to Naomi Vance's new stallion that A. Gould will be riding - that horse is a real stunner :)
 
Hi there
I really can't fault Parker's as a transporter - Pocholo looked great and he has no qualms about travelling however I think that being on a lorry for 12 hours a day for 5 days will take it out of any horse! He was also gelded just 6 weeks before so a combination of factors really, and as I mentioned his growth plates were very open so I think it all meant he got a bit jarred up.

I posted a vid recently of him loose jumping for the first time - clearly not his real talent but we love a bit of variety and it would be fun to do some little jumping classes :D - http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=443503

Here he is just after he arrived last year:
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And here's our next one, he's rising 4 and still in Spain, absolutely wondeful to ride (he looks quite downhilll in this pic but isn't generally!!):
picture.php
 
J1ffy,
Pocholo looks really sweet. I would like to do a bit of fun jumping as well - just little cross poles etc - for same reason as you - a bit of fun, and to improve his paces etc.

Have you got any recent piccies of him? ...just to see how he's filled out in a year? He looks a similar type to my boy, i.e. very handsome!! :)).
 
I'd say get your xrays and good idea on the back too. hocks would be good to, they do sit and take weight behind naturally which can cause wear and tare.
My lad has a Bates VSD which has been a god send as he changes shape so quickly. Ideal Elizabeth saddles also fit many, and I've seen a prestige and an Albion fit so you have plenty of choices really
Bits like any other horse they're all different it also depends on if he was broken in an snaffle or a kerb.
Sweet itch is sometimes mentioned on the BAPSH site so keep an eye out for it although not seen one with it myself. I'd say it's well worth registering with BAPSH and they'll passport him for you. They do a good magazine with lots of info quarterly and the annual show is great fun. A really nice bunch of people it seems.
Good tooth check would also be something to schedule in as they seem to not be so keen on dental work in general over there.
If he arrives barefoot I'd recommend seeing if you can keep him that way.
Oh an simple systems feeds works well for our lot, the entire gang are air ferns so don't need much.
 
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He looks gorgeous, well done for going for a PRE. I bought one 2 months ago & they are just lovely horses.

I think everyone has answered your questions the only thing i will add is you can download all the forms you need from the BAPSH website.

I currently ride mine in a Frank Baines reflex deluxe dressage saddle, it's actually my WB's but it fits my PRE quite well to my surprise. Bit there more of an individual thing, my PRE hates Mylers & but he loves his fairly thick german silver lozenge snaffle. I ride him in just a caverson & this set up seems to suit both of us.
 
Hey :)

Saddle/Tack wise i would wait until he arrives and get a saddler to come out and try lots of different makes on him and see what suits him best. What suits one horse wont necessarily suit another, and what you like might not suit him - saddles are a funny buisness!! Like i said on the weekend you're welcome to try my Wow saddle on him aswell as ive got lots of different headplates. Ive also got a KK Ultra you can try too if you are interested - before forking out on things that might not necessarily suit?

Will drop you an email in a minute actually as meant to ring you last night.
 
My boy settled in well last year, but he did have a few niggles and I wonder if the journey (5 days with John Parker) took more out of him than we realised. For our next horse, I'll give him a real break when he arrives and bring him into work slowly. Obviously be careful with the English grass too as they can be prone to lami, we treated P like an ex-racer and built up turn-out from 30 minutes a day over a few weeks. Also, Spanish horses tend to react badly to sugarbeet so avoid it or stick to speedibeet ;)

Happy to answer any other questions, though I'm something of a PRE amateur compared to some people on here!!



- Have a look at http://www.gescabonline.com/ - if you put it in google translate you can work out how to find their genealogy! You can pay 5 euros for a day. I spent an extremely geeky few hours going through my horses' lines and I was surprised and happy to find out that my little bay is Yeguada Militar lines and my next one is Pallares (Carthusian) lines :) And also that my bay shares a grand-sire with Andrew Gould's new PRE, Habanero http://www.naomivancewebb.com/article.php/HABANEROXLI Obviously they look very similar (*ahem*)[/QUOTE]

Second the sugar thing! Anything with it in isn't good, including molassed chop.

You can go on www.lgancce.com, then arbol genealogico PRE to look up your horses pedigree for free. It will also tell you if he was graded for breeding and any progeny.
 
Hi, great to hear more people are going for PREs! they're amazing!!!

I had mine for almost a year now, I'm totally in love!
I have found mine only offers true contact in a mullen mount bit, the movement of 2 and 3 jointed bits makes him play with them too much and curl up too much. I'm not sure if that's a common issue with PREs, but several people told me they tend to go behind the bit quite a lot.
I was also worried re saddle fit so got my boy a WOW saddle - cheesy name I know - but it's very comfy and well made and I have headplates changes 3 times over the time I've had him and the air panels adjusted, so the fit is always good. I also like that the air panels have no pressure points and distribute weight well. I've also heard that Kieffers tend to suit them well.
I started riding mine about a week after he came, he was stressed but settles in fine after a while. Be careful of not making a cuddly toy of him, they're extremely handsome, cute, attention-craving horses, it's easy to think they're pure angels :) but they're also highly intelligent and will quickly realise if they can walk all over you! I think they lose respect for you if you let them get away with things. I also had a real issue with people constantly coming and feeding/cuddling my horse, which is sweet but sometimes slightly annoying :)
 
Hi, my 6 year old stallion kirico came over from spain last january, also with parkers and again had no problems except hed shredded his rug during the journey (thankfully hasnt become a trait:D) Also took him a while to settle once here though, its such a different life for them out there as stallions rarely get turned out so they often go a little nutty when they see a blade of grass, mine doesnt actually like going out for too long and starts pacing and calling to come in after half an hour, so you may find that yourself at first and just tailor it to suit what theyre happiest with.
I use a NS hanging cheek snaffle on him, he was mostly schooled in a double over there (at only 5 but this isnt unusual) and has quite a sensitive mouth so i think he likes the fixed mouthpiece and milder metal of the NS bit, but it is trial and error with any new horse as im sure you know. The saddle i started off buying a thorowgood xw cob dressage, then he lost some weight over the summer and (thankfully) now fits in my ideal jessica dressage saddle which seems to suit us both well. Its possibly a little narrow on him now as hes changed shape again and am going to have him properly fitted once hes stopped filling out, so would def reccomnd something adjustable for the next few years as PREs do mature much much later than most breeds.
Def check out the BAPSH site as well, full of lots of info, show dates, trainers etc and if you ever want to take him to the breed show at hartpury once a year he'll need to be registered so its worth doing asap (would reccomended going one year, great fun and get to meet lots of likeminded people and learn loads)
Cant think of much more advice at the mo but im sure ill think of some more as its late and had a loooong day, feel free to pm though im far from an expert myself but will always give open, honest advice about my experiences with the breed, always happy to help out a fellow PRE lover:D
And heres some pics of mentioned beastie just to add to the others


In spain just before he came home
kirico2.jpg

GetAttachment.jpg


At home (can you tell hes absolutely as good as gold in the stable:))
DSC00024.jpg

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Dont have many ridden pics but heres a couple from last years breed show, our first time there and he did me soooo proud bless him
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Sorry bout the pic overload, can you tell i love my spanish pony:D
 
wow, thanks for all the advice and for the gorgeous pics of your lovely horses!! I feel truly informed now :))

Just a couple more questions...

1) Alibear - what is an air fern?
2) Some of you have said to "give him a real rest when he arrives" - how long would you consider appropriate (it's going to be very hard given that I can't wait to get a leg over!!)
3) How have you all done at the dressage shows? I'd be pleased to hear about your experiences in this area :)
 
I gave mine a week off, first 3 days just gradually increasing turnout, then started lungeing, then ridden. Couldn't wait, I totally understand you! In the meantime, spend as much time as you can with him, grooming, taking to him, so he gets to know and trust you. Don't be too worried if he's a bit of a brat at first, mine was literally dragging me around (I told him off but he still did it often) on a leadrope, but after about a week or 2 he was 100% fine and now would follow me around without rope or halter. I also find they're really intelligent horses so I think it's no good to leave them totally alone, their intellect starts working against your favour. Give him nice things to think about, I hope it makes any sense!
We've done around 12 dressage shows so far, one Intro and rest Prelims at first we used to score around 60% and then with the help of a knowledgeable instructor (doesn't have to be an Iberian specialist) are scoring 70%. Now we're moving on to Novice, I hope to move on to Elementary towards autumn. I've mentioned it in another thread, but the most important thing for PREs is to relax and not run and jog all the time (think active but slow), I think this gets penalised very harshly.
Hope it helps! :)
 
Eva, that's great advice, thanks. Yes, I will do lots of ground work with him, teach him a bit of natural horsemanship stuff (he'll probably teach me though ;)) - they are naturals at it, because they're so intelligent. So, yes, great idea, he and I will work together from the ground to get to know and trust each other. I could also handwalk him out if someone is going out for a hack, and let him see a bit of his new surroundings.

Geez, I really CAN'T wait!!! It's so exciting. I have ridden a few Spanish horses, and I just love the feel of them, their energy, gorgeous looks, collection and their intelligence... I don't know what took me so long to buy one :))

Also in that first week, I'll be grooming him a lot (I love it as well :)) ...and I will have to learn how to plait his mane, and learn about general hair care for PRE (he's going to be higher maintenance than me!! ;))

I'm counting down the days!...I leave to Belgium on Friday, the vetting is at 8am Sat morning - please cross all your fingers for me for the vetting :))
 
isn't it the best feeling in the whole world to be waiting for your new friend to arrive :) wonderful! I promise I'll shut up now, just the last bit of info that helped me a great deal:
in UK (not sure re everywhere else) they don't have to be plaited for competitions, since it's traditional for them to show off their long beautiful manes :) by the by, I thought his mane would be harder to groom since it's so bulky, but actually it's really easy, especially if you have a brush on a handle, like that
http://www.farmway.co.uk/equine-2/f...medium=ppc&utm_term=2880&utm_campaign=froogle

I tried plaiting mine into button braids once, well that was hilarious because they were the size of a tennis ball each :) Running braid is easy to do and looks fantastic on them, but mine seems to tense up when plaited so I just make sure he's brushed and clean and away we go :) he's definitely released my inner little girl who'd happily spend hours brushing her pony's long think mane and tail :)
 
I think Eva's advice is great on all counts :)

Re: dressage, we only did Intro last year as we didn't manage to do a lot of canter work at home (plus I didnt have transport so we had few opportunities to get out and about). In our first attempt at a full test, we won the September Intro class on Dressage Anywhere - you can see the video if you go to the Scoreboard on www.dressageanywhere.com. I took him to his first comp a month later. He was an angel and, despite arriving 5 mins before our time due to lorry issues and having zero warm-up, we won again with 68%.

As Eva said, focus on calm, forwards and straight work. They are so good at collection and lateral work that often mine will use it as an evasion as it's easier than working forwards into the bridle and bending correctly! We're starting to do good work in canter now so I plan to get him out doing Prelims next month (if I pass my trailer test next week...).

Oh, and running plaits are sooo much easier than ball plaits, and I'm seriously useless with hair!!

Fingers crossed for the vetting!!
 
Just a question to you all,

I originally had planned the vetting with an international clinic in Belgium, they were really friendly and helpful, the vet took quite some time to understand what he needs to do to fulfil the UK requirements for the vetting. I had it all booked in, then called the horse owner - who then said he didn't want to go to that clinic, and wanted to go to a different clinic. The differnt clinic is extremely difficult for me to get to, given that I am staying overnight in Brussels - it will take over two hours on the train, because it is in the north of Belgium.

It was a hassle, but I cancelled the appointment I had made (after spending half a day sending documents and xrays across to the other clinic. I then called the one they wanted to go to... and the people at the clinic were rude, arrogant, unhelpful, and wouldn't let me speak to the vet. The whole week the vet hasn't rung me. So I called the clinic today to speak to the vet... but the receptionist again was rude and said he was out and told me "we know what we are doing" and therefore that there was no need to speak to the vet. Apparently the vet is at a meeting this afternoon, and I guess clients are a much lower priority. He won't have time to speak to me tomorrow either because he has appointments.

This makes me very uncomfortable. I am travelling a long way and spending quite a lot of money on both my travel and the vetting...and it gives me a bad feeling in my gut that they won't speak to me...which also means I have been unable to pass to him the old xrays etc, or mention any special areas that I would like extra focus on for the vetting.

I don't know what to do...it's really giving me a bad feeling. I don't want to go to a vetting when the vet hasn't even given me 5 minutes of his time prior to the appointment to discuss what I want from it...

Would any of you feel the same?

But then if I call the horse owner, and tell them I want to go to the original clinic, it might be difficult for them... because the only appointment available is Friday at 3pm, and they both work on Friday and told me they could only do Saturdays.

I feel like I am tiptoe'ing around people, when actually I am the one about to spend a lot of money... any thoughts anyone?
 
What is the reason why they dont want the clinic to do the vetting, Just work commitments??

I would be upset about the seller almost bullying you into using a certain clinic tbh.
If they are not willing to be more flexible & you really want the horse then you will have to go with the vets they want. But i would be asking for details of where to send x-rays if there rude be rude back your the customer dont let them bully you.

I presume the horse is a significant amount of money, so you really need to put your foot down.
 
I agree with DressageCrazy - you are the one taking a big risk here and you need to be comfortable. If they can't take the horse at that time, could you ask them to arrange a transporter?

I'm not saying that they are trying to pull something here (I know how difficult it can be to take time off work at short notice!!) but I'd want to be 100% sure that the vetting is on my terms and with someone I trust. I've seen the effects of someone who was mislead by a dealer and a vet and it was a very expensive mistake. There are so many things that can go wrong even with a perfect vetting and you need to give yourself every chance to be satisified that it's being handled correctly!!
 
eva said:
Hi, great to hear more people are going for PREs! they're amazing!!!

. Be careful of not making a cuddly toy of him, they're extremely handsome, cute, attention-craving horses, it's easy to think they're pure angels :) but they're also highly intelligent and will quickly realise if they can walk all over you! I think they lose respect for you if you let them get away with things. I also had a real issue with people constantly coming and feeding/cuddling my horse, which is sweet but sometimes slightly annoying :)
Click to expand...

This is very good advice - I'm not a PRE person (although I think the OP's new boy is a real cutie) but if he's on a livery yard, you really have to watch out if you've got a horse that's a bit different or special. We've got quarter horses and are now at a western yard where they are not fussed much or ever fed titbits - thank goodness with my pushy, cheeky 3yo! At previous yards I've had to tell even quite knowledgeable people not to give my QH mare titbits, as like the PRE they are a breed which will quickly take advantage! A quiet word with the YO might be in order - especially as he's recently been gelded and might still be a bit nippy. :D
 
I would be every bit as anxious as you re the vetting issue.... doesn't sound like they are being at all fair and you have every right to object to how you are being treated. For a purchase this significant you cannot be in a position where you cant even speak to the vet!

Just to say that I bought my first PRE from near Barcelona last September. After a 3 day trip to get here - he arrived as fresh as a daisy (ETA were great), and I was on his back 2 days later. Like so many PRE stallions he hadn't been turned out or hacked - so I took all that slowly with him. I hand-grazed him for months - and only started to put him out 2 weeks ago when the weather and ground were so much better - and it worked out perfectly. As far as hacking is concerned - he took to it immediately - and is the most sensible horse in the yard, never spooking at anything at all. Although he was trained to Advanced level - he'd only done 6 year old classes in Spain, and got serious stage fright in the warm up arenas when I started competing. It was like being on a 4 year old, not an 8 year old...... but he's got better each time, and is now fine. BD 'gave' me 260 points - so we are trying to qualify for Med Regionals before he runs out of points. Judges are v positive about him..... think it really helps that Andrew Gould and Fiona Foy are out there on PREs doing well. I have no probs on the titbits issue.... he hates polos/sugar etc.... but adores bananas, so he gets one after he's schooled! I'm so glad didnt get him gelded as he is such a gent, and the best mannered (and most affectionate)horse I've ever had. I had a Barnsby saddle made for him - it's great. He is a truly lovely horse .... wish I discoverd PREs years ago!
 
Hi Howie
thanks for the post :)
Yeah, I was pushed into going to a clinic that the owner wanted to go because it was more convenient for him (I don't get it though, the one I had arranged was a 28 min drive, and the horrible one is almost an hour - so I am not sure how that is more convenient...)

The horrible place's vet actually emailed me this evening, and told me the price of the vetting will be almost 800€!!!!!!!!!!!! In utter shock! Complete rip as well, I guess they think people are stupid and will just pay it. The nice clinic had told me 250€ for the five stage, then extra for the additional things that I wanted (any additional Xrays etc). In the vet's email this evening, he also told me he received the Xrays from the other vet, but in a format that he couldn't see very well. Well, he is just telling me this now (night before I leave when it is too late for me to do anything about it), when he's had the Xrays for days...so, of course, he recommends doing about 20 Xrays at 30 € each to make up for the fact that he can't see the old ones.

I am adamant that I do not want to go to that clinic now, they are rude, arrogant, unhelpful, overpriced and unprofessional.

So, I have the stress now that I have to travel at 4am to Brussels, and now have no vetting arranged... (my tickets are not changeable). The only reason I was going was for the vetting. So, I have emailed the owner of the horse, and asked them to sort out a transporter to pick up the horse tomorrow to take it to the nice clinic where they will vet it at 3pm. No response yet, I guess I will find out when I get there whether it will go ahead or not.

I'm actually really, really annoyed that the owner made me cancel the original appointment with the nice clinic - all I've had is stress ever since with the clinic that he wanted to go to.
 
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