Spavin and hind shoes

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PiggyB

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Hello,

Just wondered if anyone had any advice on removing the hind shoes from my spavin afflicted horse? He doesnt have any remedial shoeing and is sound.

I am trying to cut costs over the winter, and since he will only be hacking out once a week at the weekend...wondered if this was a good idea?
x
 
Absolutely fine although he was already on a barefoot friendly low sugar/starch diet, we were very careful with his trimming and at first just observed and allowed his feet to grow in their own way rather than inflicting our idea of balance on him as we weren't sure how the spavins would affect the wear but he did enough roadwork to keep them tidy all on their own. :)
 
Might be worth discussing with your vet and farrier. I looked into it for my spavin horse (also sound) as I wanted to minimise concussion on the hind legs.

However my farrier felt that due to the rotating, sliding motion that my horse has with his hind hooves (due to fused joints above) and the irregular wear that this causes to shoes, that it would be difficult to balance his hooved barefoot.

My vet also felt that a flat shoe had less traction on tarmac (our most frequent surface) than a barefoot hoof, and therefore put less train on the hocks, by allowing the 'slide and twist' motion.
 
WIth my spavined horse being barefoot allowed him to alter the height of his heels to suit his level of soundness at the time. At times he had one heel much, much deeper than the other (I have photos of moulds that I took). When he was sounder, in warm dry weather, they evened up. He was never out of work and he eventually fused and is sound.

No foot could do that in shoes, so I recommend that you go shoeless.

I believe that your horse is wearing his shoe unevenly because he wants an uneven foot. Your farrier keeps shoeing him level and he keeps trying to unlevel it, causing shoe wear. When you take off the shoe, the parts of his foot that he wants to wear least will grow thicker than the rest, preventing it from becoming "unbalanced". Beware, though, HIS idea of balance will be what is balanced to his fused hocks, not what is "balanced" to look at.

I also think that your vet is wrong for at least part of the time that the flat shoes are on. They are nailed on, usually with big headed nails because there is no fuller for the head to sit into. Until the nail heads wear down, the grip will be very strong on tarmac. Also, a slipping shoe may lessen forces but will, surely, cause confidence problems? Since spavined horses are worst going downhill, I would prefer him to have the security of feeling where his feet are if he were mine.
 
My vet advised that I had my spaving horse shod behind with lateral extensions as this would help reduce the strain on his hocks, he wasn't previously shod behind.
 
I'd love to know how shoeing the horse so it cannot put its feet down in the way that it wants to reduces the strain on the hock. Surely the horse will choose the position of least strain for himself, where it hurts least? I'm unclear why lateral extensions hide spavin lameness, I'd love to know the mechanics of it. Any farriers/vets able to explain?
 
cptrayes said:
I'd love to know how shoeing the horse so it cannot put its feet down in the way that it wants to reduces the strain on the hock. Surely the horse will choose the position of least strain for himself, where it hurts least? I'm unclear why lateral extensions hide spavin lameness, I'd love to know the mechanics of it. Any farriers/vets able to explain?
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I had this same conversation with my vet and farrier. I was told that LEs straighten that movement that horses with spavins get and apparently supports the foot / stops the hoof from being crushed because of the way they walk.

In the case of my horse... yes they did straighten his movement but only because they force the horse to walk in a certain way. In them he could barely track up, even in walk. I didn't realise how short they'd made his movement until I took his back shoes off altogether earlier this year. He moved so differently when those LE shoes came off, would never ever go back to them again. For one reason and another he is shod again behind now but only with standard shoes. Thankfully he hasn't reverted back to that stunted, stiff movement the LEs gave him. His movement isn't as "straight" as it was with them on but he is clearly far happier and moving better so I'm assuming he's now able to walk in a way that is more comfortable for him. I also think he can use his HQs properly now without them on. Horrible things, never again!!
 
CC that is just what I would have expected. Thanks for explaining. I think the horse knows best where to put his foot to avoid pain.

Vets who think they "crush" their feet haven't seen enough barefoot horses who do not move straight - they grow MUCH thicker horn on the bits that are taking "too much" wear.
 
cptrayes said:
CC that is just what I would have expected. Thanks for explaining. I think the horse knows best where to put his foot to avoid pain.
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Interestingly (I think)... I was using a "standard" farrier when my horse had the LEs. When I put his shoes back on, I changed to a remedial farrier. Said remedial farrier was actually pretty reticent to go with LEs when I mentioned them, said he'd prefer to see how he was in standard shoes first. I did push the point as I'd had my vet and previous farrier pushing LEs for so long but he really wasn't keen - didn't seem to have anything positive to say about them. Almost as though once you start using a farrier with more experience and who has studied more, they start to see that sometimes the horse does know best and we can't solve everything (or anything??!) with shoes...

Vets who think they "crush" their feet haven't seen enough barefoot horses who do not move straight - they grow MUCH thicker horn on the bits that are taking "too much" wear.
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I got the feeling he was just quoting a standard answer!
 
Lateral extensions are fine if the horse needs support laterally I guess - but when left to grow his feet the way he wanted them he grew a medial extension all for himself!

Shoes off, less concussion, let the foot grow what it needs to grow to support what's above it. Plenty of hacking out and few circles and little or no schooling.
 
In my experience, horses which vets/farriers want to put lateral extensions on suffer from poor medial/lateral balance as the primary cause of the problems the horse is exhibiting
 
brucea said:
Lateral extensions are fine if the horse needs support laterally I guess - but when left to grow his feet the way he wanted them he grew a medial extension all for himself!

Shoes off, less concussion, let the foot grow what it needs to grow to support what's above it. Plenty of hacking out and few circles and little or no schooling.
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Plenty of hacking, yes (also as much turnout as possible), but I disagree with little or no schooling. It has to be the right sort of schooling, gentle gymnastic work which works within the boundaries of what the horse can do. If you do no schooling at all then you end up with a horse who carries all of his weight in front... a horse who goes on his forehand all of the time and doesn't use his back correctly is going to give himself problems elsewhere. Schooling doesn't have to mean endless drilling around an arena in circles!
 
For what is is worth ,my own mare has bone spavin,and is now sound.But any hiccups in the initial year was caused by her hind leg sliding forwards on mud/slippy grass.She is kept shod plus road nails so this is unlikely.I suppose it might have been due to the hock contorting into a different angle and giving a mighty tweek to the spavin area.Anyway she is fine now as a hack and I am very grateful for that.In the initial year or so she was worked through her stiffness using bute,as told to do by the vet,and it worked for her.Neither of us are into schooling and sand schools thankyou,so she does`nt ever have to do that.:)
 
PiggyB said:
Hello,

Just wondered if anyone had any advice on removing the hind shoes from my spavin afflicted horse? He doesnt have any remedial shoeing and is sound.

I am trying to cut costs over the winter, and since he will only be hacking out once a week at the weekend...wondered if this was a good idea?
x
Click to expand...

Not entirely sure. My horse needed lateral extensions on his shoes to help his spavin. If your farrier is making the outer side of the shoe wider in order to help then taking shoes off might not be such a good idea.
 
Interestingly enough I posted a similar thread a week ago! Took the plunge and took hind shoes off my tb who is having a year off due to various ailments, bone spavin & psd to name 2! He is so much better than I thought he would be! I was worried he'd be crippled but he is galloping & bucking as much as ever and doesn't appear to be sore (at this point) my vet and farrier both agreed to give it a go.
 
Thanks for your advice everyone, I suppose its just a 'try it and see' situation. I am mainly thinking of giving it a go to save a few pennies. My horse manages very well on his spaviny hocks...doesnt flex up lame and still moves nicely so he may be a good candidate.
x
 
cptrayes said:
WIth my spavined horse being barefoot allowed him to alter the height of his heels to suit his level of soundness at the time. At times he had one heel much, much deeper than the other (I have photos of moulds that I took). When he was sounder, in warm dry weather, they evened up. He was never out of work and he eventually fused and is sound.

No foot could do that in shoes, so I recommend that you go shoeless.

I believe that your horse is wearing his shoe unevenly because he wants an uneven foot. Your farrier keeps shoeing him level and he keeps trying to unlevel it, causing shoe wear. When you take off the shoe, the parts of his foot that he wants to wear least will grow thicker than the rest, preventing it from becoming "unbalanced". Beware, though, HIS idea of balance will be what is balanced to his fused hocks, not what is "balanced" to look at.

I also think that your vet is wrong for at least part of the time that the flat shoes are on. They are nailed on, usually with big headed nails because there is no fuller for the head to sit into. Until the nail heads wear down, the grip will be very strong on tarmac. Also, a slipping shoe may lessen forces but will, surely, cause confidence problems? Since spavined horses are worst going downhill, I would prefer him to have the security of feeling where his feet are if he were mine.
Click to expand...

This is good advice!
 
My boy has just been diagnosed with spavin and is lame in trot and once warmed up will stride out in walk. As he is kept in work purely in walk, I asked the farrier to remove his hinds and he agreed it would be a good idea to at least try especially as he was destroying the inside of his feet by resting them on top of each other with the shoes on. If he pulled up foot sore then he would come back and put them straight back on. So far *touch wood* it's been a week and he has been out on the roads twice with no problems so far and he seems comfortable with bare feet and can grow them the shape he wants them to be:D

Plus I much preferred the £33 bill for 2 fronts and hind trim compared to the £70 for a full set of shoes, especially when all his work is just walking!:rolleyes:
 
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