spinning- Help

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Oscar162

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Friend has a cracking big horse who ticks almost every box, really nice mare.
But.
She spins when hacking. It isn't all the time, just now and then she just go's for it. She can get bright if at the front and until now we have thought the spin was due to this, so I have tended to take the lead whenever there is a spooky moment ahead as my girl at most will take a sideways step.
Then today.
We were about ten mins into our ride, going a route we ride a lot, we were side by side, nothing spooky ahead, no little signs that she was getting bright and then bang, she spun. Her head hit me full force in the chest and shoulder knocking me so I almost came off the back of my mare, my girl stepped back when she felt me go and the next thing we knew her back legs went over the edge of the embankment almost toppling us off, my wonderful girl scrambled like mad and some how got back up the bank and onto her feet with me still on board. I jumped off as I was so sure she would be hurt, but she was just shaken and very upset. The other horse by then was still with my friend in floods of tears as her horse had caused all this.
I had to take my girl home then to give her a full look over so my friend turned for home with me at this point her horse visibly relaxed and plodded home behind us.
So I think it is a nap. My friend is a little person, not very strong, but a able rider and bold, but this horse just evades no matter what she does. Does anyone have any experience in stopping a big horse spinning??
History of horse.
she is eight, 16.1 middle weight. Have found out that this started with last owner who would ride her out for so long, then the horse would decide to turn for home and he would let her!!!!
New owner is a very slim 5ft 4 woman.
Oh and last note, she always spins into any horse by her or just behind. If I had been on my other horse she would have hit me full force in the face.
 
Unless your friend is very competent I would send this mare to someone like Mike Peace to stop this if she tries it again.
 
Yeh this is the answer I was looking for. I said this straight away to her that it needs a pro to sort out a established problem like this, just wanted reassurance I'm not over reacting after such a fright today.
 
Agree with eggs, unfortunately the horse will sense if your friend is in the slightest nervous. Unusual that the horse spins when in company though. My mare was nappy when I first got her, refusing to go forward and hopping on her back legs. I got through this I guess because I am a brave (or stupid) rider and not too easily worried. She used to get a sharp slap on the bum with a schooling whip and would be shocked into action. Her previous owner was scared by her. In time we have cracked it and she will now go out on her own anywhere, a bit on her toes going anywhere new. It sounds like your friends horse got her own way with the previous owner and considers it normal when she does this. Hope she gets it sorted.
 
How interesting this is, I have a TB that does the same, in company, nearly knocking the other person off her horse. On her own, she doesnt like vehicles with trailers. In my opinion you need plenty of contact and drive forward, so much easier said than done. Too much contact and she will stand up, too litttle and she whips round. I shall look forward to more replies.
 
Oscar162 said:
So I think it is a nap. Yes, you are right.


My friend is a little person, not very strong, but a able rider and bold, but this horse just evades no matter what she does. Does anyone have any experience in stopping a big horse spinning?? I have ridden one horse with two whips (one in each hand) and as soon as I felt that she was about to whip around, I'd smack her on the shoulder that she was moving towards. So if she whipped round to the right, she got a tap/smack on the right shoulder. I also rode with my hands quite wide and my leg always on gently, but ready to put it on strong and send her forwards.

History of horse.
she is eight, 16.1 middle weight. Have found out that this started with last owner who would ride her out for so long, then the horse would decide to turn for home and he would let her!!!! Ok, this is a problem, but you can't undo the past. From now on I would never, ever, ever turn around and go back the same way. Only ride circular routes with this horse.

New owner is a very slim 5ft 4 woman.
Oh and last note, she always spins into any horse by her or just behind. If I had been on my other horse she would have hit me full force in the face. Does she always spin in the same direction? Do you always ride with her on the same side of your horse?
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..........
 
I shall get her to try two whips.
As someone says, too little contact she spins, too much she looks like she will go up.
This is the first time we have ever turned and gone for home the same way, four ways to get home so we change it every time as a rule till today.
No I don't ride to her left every time, I tend to be between her and the monsters so we swap about. but I do think it is her favoured way.
 
You can also 'flap' the whips without touching the horse (rotate your wrists). It is possible to do this and keep the contact on the horse's mouth steady. This should send the horse forwards, but it might be wise to try this gently in the school incase the horse wont tolerate it.
 
Thanks for all your suggestions, it's good to get others views. I hope we get her fixed as she thought she bought a school mistress she could work towards intro on eventually, no use if the bloody thing wont go forward when told x
 
It can also be helpful to really ingrain the 'walk on' command in the mare's brain. Even when she is being led in a headcollar, say 'walk on' as she starts to move and praise her straight away. Repeat, repeat etc... when ridden and in-hand and she will connect the words and moving from halt to walk. Then when she is napping, keep her straight, don't block her forwards motion and say 'walk on'.

With a nappy/whip-round horse, you really need to develop a feel for when it's about to happen and try to 'catch' it before it actually does happen. I hope that makes sense. ;)
 
Faracat said:
It can also be helpful to really ingrain the 'walk on' command in the mare's brain. Even when she is being led in a headcollar, say 'walk on' as she starts to move and praise her straight away. Repeat, repeat etc... when ridden and in-hand and she will connect the words and moving from halt to walk. Then when she is napping, keep her straight, don't block her forwards motion and say 'walk on'.

With a nappy/whip-round horse, you really need to develop a feel for when it's about to happen and try to 'catch' it before it actually does happen. I hope that makes sense. ;)
Click to expand...

It makes total sense Faracat, and it seems so obvious sitting here in the comfort of my sitting room!! I dont mean to hijack the OPs post, but I am going through exactly the same thing. Trouble is with a VERY sharp horse that gives no warning at all and will spin at a leaf, do I have contact most of the time, or do I encourage forward movement and risk being cought out.
 
Sorry went to bed last night, wasn't ignoring answers.
I had thought of this and I thought I would try long reining her along the route we went yesterday, we have a loop of about 30 mins we can do that doesn't involve turning back along paths we had been down before. I have long reined loads before so I am happy to try this, obviously I will start off in the school, and we will be speaking to someone we know locally who sorts this kind of problem out to see what he thinks.
 
Will your friend's horse hack out alone? Or behind so there's no-one to spin into? Most of my youngsters have spun over the years when they were getting used to new/scary things, and it was a phase they grew out of as it never got them anywhere. Now obviously your friend's mare never did grow out of it 'cause her spinning was rewarded by previous owner, but if the spinning with your friend never achieves anything, it should gradually reduce. I have a very reactive, spooky welsh cross, who spins as a fear reaction. I simply control it, then ask her to go past whatever it was again, and after a time or two she plucks up her courage and either tentatively walks forward (ready to run lol), or trots (get it over with quicker!). She's just had a week off so was a lot worse yesterday, but if she goes out most days she soon calms down and it's only occasional and not a big thing. I tend to hack out with a gap between me and any other horse so I don't spin into them, have enough contact to be in control but not forcing anything, and just ask gently as mine is genuinely scared (of shadows, funny coloured tarmac, you name it!) and I know she'll always try to do as I ask.
 
I have a nappy spinner who really scared me for quite a long time, he used to do it in the school as well as hacking and I would fall off.
I have addressed this problem through working on getting him to 'think' forwards all the time when hacking and schooling, using less leg and backing up with my whip so lessons would be good for your friend. When I feel him getting slower or 'sticky' that is a sign that he is about to nap or spin, so I give him a sharp tap with the stick on the shoulder and apply lots of leg. Also I growl at him. If he does actually spin he gets a good old smack on his behind. He now knows the consequences of such behaviour.
I also put a strap across the front of my saddle that I can hang on to when I feel he might 'go', as he can buck too!!!
It took a few months to crack but he now knows that he will be in bother for doing it and I don't fall off any more! The funny thing is, if he is genuinely scared of something he doesn't spin anyway, he shoots forward, or stops dead, snorts and stares before backing up! So I know the spinning is naughty.
 
If it were me I would always use a full cheek bit on this sort of horse. Then a spin would be met by making her spin more and flex the neck until her head is at your boot and she stops. Then praise and move on. Not many horses carry on if the end result is always this. Very useful to break the habit, but requires confident rider
 
Sorry, not read all replies (I should be elsewhere now :eek:), but as Dizz was the Master of Spins, I thought I'd add my two pence worth :)

When Dizz span, it was a nap. She was a young hot headed DWB mare that was full of herself. She would spin and/or go backwards (usually at high speed).

My action was dependent on the speed of the spin: a fast one and I'd bring the rein that was the direction of travel in so as even when the horse had decided the spin was done, she would have to keep going in the same direction: I suggest the rider take hold of the mane to as the speed and dynamics can be interesting. If the start of the spin was slower, get the rein opposite to the direction of travel and and do two or three tight circles.

Be careful as to where and how the rider's hands are held as I've known people break their finger/hand when it gets smacked against the neck/saddle (due to the speed).

The showjumper's lever can be very useful for a very strong horse that is really taking the p!ss, but the rider has to be quick to give a bit of release as soon as the horse is no longer in control of the spin, but still hold some degree of rein up/over to ensure the horse keeps the tight turn, which is the rider reclaiming the direction/movement.

All this has to be calm and quiet as you want it to become a learned response, i.e. the spin is not effective as the horse finds itself doing something it didn't want to do with the rider back in control of the movement/direction. If the rider gets het up/angry, etc., dependent on the horse's nature, it may well channel its upset at being made to do something it doesn't want to into some other evasion tactic.

Dizzy hasn't spun for a long, long time now, but it did take a few months for it to sink in as she's a bit of a stubborn, self opinionated mare :)
 
I'm another who had a WC x that loved to do this. First thing is to make sure he/she knows what the leg REALLY is. I don't mean to offend but lots of people think their horse is in front of the leg but it isn't properly 'off the leg'

It used to happen quite a few times on a ride and I always made sure he had to turn back the way he had come, it happened less and less
Long whips and wide hands when you can tell they are going to do it, ore even if you see something that may make them do it, this is where the 'off the leg' works really well too, also for correcting the spin

Agree with Jen cots full cheek or fulmer makes it easier to make them go where you want

never ride on a loose rein, keep the contact all the time, and make her work into it.
Keep more distance between the horses

Let the other horse go in front some of the time then let her take the lead for a short while, building up the time she is in front to build her confidence, but never let her swap with other horse taking the lead while she is not being perfectly behaved (unless she has a genuine reason to be afraid)

Also you have to try to be one step ahead of them all the time too, not easy when you are 3/4 way round a ride and they have been good so far and you are chatting to friend. I know lol

When I broke my ankle he went away to friends professional yard, one of her experienced riders refused to hack him as he span so much, even on the way home!! I must admit to laughing at this as he has a weird sense of humour and would have just been taking the mickey (ha she thinks she can ride) put a complete novice on him he would be an angel

Over the years we eventually came to a compromise, it became a bit of fun to him so he would spin ONCE somewhere on the hack, I would tell him off, correct him and he wouldn't do it again. quite often he would forget to do it until nearly home, then suddenly remember and find ANY excuse (ask Pidgeon on here lol) But if I prevented him from doing it he would keep trying until he had done it once???? (told you he was weird) I do NOT think this is a good idea for you friend though as it sounds like hers is more like his was in the early years
 
pastie2 said:
It makes total sense Faracat, and it seems so obvious sitting here in the comfort of my sitting room!! I dont mean to hijack the OPs post, but I am going through exactly the same thing. Trouble is with a VERY sharp horse that gives no warning at all and will spin at a leaf, do I have contact most of the time, or do I encourage forward movement and risk being cought out.
Click to expand...

There's some good avice on this thread that I totally agree with (eg full cheek bits, they really do help as does getting the horse thinking 'forwards').

As for contact, the mare I rode was best with a constant but light contact, I held my hands slightly wider than I would with other horses. This put her head as part of a triangle (my hands were the other two points of the triangle) and I found that it enabled me to keep her head and neck straighter and made it easier to 'catch' the whip-arounds. Because the contact is light, you aren't stopping/blocking forwards movement which can result in rears.
 
Some fantastic advice guys, thank you. I rode the horse today for her putting into practice some of the things you said. I had two sticks and rode her in to a contact with a forward thinking walk. Before I got on I did a little ground work with voice commands and she was very good. Kept her straight when working her and corrected any slight bulge. Then put my friend on and noticed she sits to the right a little all the time, opening up the horse's left shoulder ( her preferred direction) so I made her sit up and turn with leg aids guarding her shoulders and got them both much straighter. The mare went better for her than I haver ever seen so fingers crossed if we keep going this way we can sort it out.
 
Glad you seem to be getting somewhere now.
Does the horse spin round and round or just whip round to face the other way?
If its a whip round, try all of the above till you get somewhere or get someone else to. If its spinning round and round like a dog chasing its tail, i used to ride a racehorse that did this at the bottom of the gallops and got nearly everyone off. I finally managed to stop it by making him keep spining when he started then go around the loop again till he jumped of without spinning. However, i wouldnt advise doing this with a nervous rider or on the road!!!! :eek:
 
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