Spoilt Rotten - Are they the most dangerous types?

No ,spoilt rotten horses arnt the most dangerous type. Merely the second most, and a long way back. There are some that will not back off and its not just that they think that they can get away with it, its that they are prepared to take on the world regardless of the consequences.Bronson nutter horses. These are truely dangerous. Mummys little darling will deflate like a pricked baloon given the right treatment |(firm but not harsh)Oh and if mumys little darling tries to squash you ,take a 3 ft length of broom handle with you ,and when the squash comes ,use it between the wall and the horses side . they wont try it again.
 
_GG_ said:
I'd take a wild youngster over an overhandled youngster every day of the week. Molly was a homebred and that was the first thing I asked when I viewed her..."how much handling has she had". The answer was, "enough that I can bring her in when the weather is really bad, turn her out and pick her feet up". I was happy with that.

I strongly believe youngsters need to be able to grow up without too much human interference.
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Yet you can handle them well and have manners - Milo has been handled every day literally since he was born. He loves his cuddles and is quite people orientated BUT he has been handled like an adult horse / expected to have the same manners from day one and as a result does pretty much everything you'd expect from an adult except be ridden, understands about personal space etc. Part of that has come from being out in a herd who taught him horse manners and then you carry that over into manners towards humans.


Bad overhandling is worse than no handling but good handling definately beats no handling.
 
Cortez said:
Oh yes! When I was training horses for a living the one thing that struck fear into all our hearts was any horse named "Baby".
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Yup exactly baby , poppet ,Twinkle ,Cuddles etc etc the ones that came with lists of their likes and dislikes .
The 5yo coming in to break ,left to mature ,homebred from a pet mare it makes me shiver to thing about.
 
I refer to mine as Baby Pony sometimes...he isn't spoilt though: he's just er, actually still a baby! And I think the ones who actually hate all other living things are worse.
 
The worst I've seen was one of the nutters Mike007 mentions, glad I didn't have to deal with the ******.

mynutmeg said:
Yet you can handle them well and have manners - Milo has been handled every day literally since he was born. He loves his cuddles and is quite people orientated BUT he has been handled like an adult horse / expected to have the same manners from day one and as a result does pretty much everything you'd expect from an adult except be ridden, understands about personal space etc. Part of that has come from being out in a herd who taught him horse manners and then you carry that over into manners towards humans.


Bad overhandling is worse than no handling but good handling definately beats no handling.
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I agree with that. Mine are homebred, handled every day, and you know what? Not a bit of bother. Fully expected to do as they are told from the start and I don't think they know it's even an option not to. I either get complimented on their manners or (frequently) told how lucky I am that I have (another) well behaved horse (which does gall me actually, like it's accident or coincidence and not taught) :biggrin3:
 
mynutmeg said:
Yet you can handle them well and have manners - Milo has been handled every day literally since he was born. He loves his cuddles and is quite people orientated BUT he has been handled like an adult horse / expected to have the same manners from day one and as a result does pretty much everything you'd expect from an adult except be ridden, understands about personal space etc. Part of that has come from being out in a herd who taught him horse manners and then you carry that over into manners towards humans.


Bad overhandling is worse than no handling but good handling definately beats no handling.
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Exactly, I don't see the benefit in leaving a horse out semi feral for 4 years, I've always gone with the thought that if I wouldn't accept this behaviour from an adult horse, then I won't accept it from a "cute" foal.
 
Capriole said:
The worst I've seen was one of the nutters Mike007 mentions, glad I didn't have to deal with the ******.



I agree with that. Mine are homebred, handled every day, and you know what? Not a bit of bother. Fully expected to do as they are told from the start and I don't think they know it's even an option not to. I either get complimented on their manners or (frequently) told how lucky I am that I have (another) well behaved horse (which does gall me actually, like it's accident or coincidence and not taught) :biggrin3:
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Oh yes, I'm sooooo lucky too!
 
Capriole said:
...or (frequently) told how lucky I am that I have (another) well behaved horse (which does gall me actually, like it's accident or coincidence and not taught) :biggrin3:
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Amen to that!

Within ten minutes of arrival, my mare tried to barge out of the stable and then pinned me to the wall. Some thought I was being hard on her as I spent the next hour teaching her "back" and "over", saying I should leave her a day or two to settle before I started upgrading her manners. Sorry, she could have hurt me or worse in that time, so no way would I leave it. And of course, she quickly learned that I was no pushover immediately, so was therefore a safer horse from the start.
 
mynutmeg said:
Bad overhandling is worse than no handling but good handling definately beats no handling.
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That says it all. My point was not that I would rather a horse be left wild or semi wild....just that I would pick one of those of a horse that had been 'babied' for all it's life. In an ideal world, as I mentioned I was really happy with what Molly had, it would be a youngster that is out with horses, being a horse, but being lightly handled on a regular basis. They get to learn from horses and humans at the same time and I just find them to be all the more rounded and easy to be with.
 
My pony is my baby, iv had him since he was weaned and is very well handled and has manners to die for, he never puts a foot wrong. I'm starting to break him in now and he's still being as good as gold.
It's not the ponies that are spoilt its stupid owners who don't have a clue.
 
_GG_ said:
[...] it would be a youngster that is out with horses, being a horse, but being lightly handled on a regular basis. They get to learn from horses and humans at the same time and I just find them to be all the more rounded and easy to be with.
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That's what mine have, they live out all the time with some proper hard-assed mares.
 
I did used to wonder how horses got this way, then I got kicked by a pony at my yard, a 3 yo, whose field I had to go through to get my own in. She would march into your space and stand in front of you demanding attention and if you annoyed her in any way, would whip round and double barrel you. I was bruised from thigh to knee. Owner didn't spend enough time with her as needed at that age to instill manners. I used to have to go into the field carrying a schooling stick, the owner didn't like that and complained about me!
 
Mithras said:
I did used to wonder how horses got this way, then I got kicked by a pony at my yard, a 3 yo, whose field I had to go through to get my own in. She would march into your space and stand in front of you demanding attention and if you annoyed her in any way, would whip round and double barrel you. I was bruised from thigh to knee. Owner didn't spend enough time with her as needed at that age to instill manners. I used to have to go into the field carrying a schooling stick, the owner didn't like that and complained about me!
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That's basic stuff that needs to be taught when they are tiny IMO. Should never be allowed to get to that stage. You're pretty much setting your beloved horse up to get a beating one day if it ends up with the wrong people :(
 
Capriole said:
What happened?

Sounds like at the very least the pony needed to be in a field no-one had to go through to have that sort of behaviour inflicted upon them, apart from the owner.
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Oh, nothing much. Just mumble, mumble, yard gossip. It kicked someone else too!

YO's friend: "Oh that's such a nice pony, its really friendly"....sigh.

Makes me more grateful for all the horses that I've bought that have come to me really well mannered and well brought up! Being kicked really isn't nice.
 
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Yes !! Most definitely

I got my mare was a 2 year old because the breeder couldnt afford to breed & keep them any longer he was heartbroken & he had spoilt her rotten!

This resulted in her trying to walk over the top of me, literally knocking me over when walking in hand if she saw grass she liked, pinning me against walls to raid my pockets for food. There was 1 time I was walking her in from the field & her friend cantered over she locked her neck pranced & knocked me over into the electric fence. That was the final straw

I got a dually headcoller & did so mucb ground work with her ... at 1st I couldnt step 1 stride back from her without her walking towards me she was that insecure! After a few weeks could put her at 1 end of the school & walk to the other & she would wait

As a 5 year old now she is literally so good everyone comments on how good she is for a 5 year old but it didnt come without hard work

Shes still spoilt now as in she gets lots of attention & carrots etc but in a structured way. If she gets a carrot from hand il make her guess which hand or do a stretch or something so its productive as well as nice
 
littleshetland said:
I was reminiscing with a friend about a particular TB youngster that came through the yard, that was unusual in the fact that she had been so spoilt. The owner had had her from a weanling and had proceeded to treat her like she was (quite literally) a human child. Every nip, bite, kick and barge (playful and otherwise) was treated with gails of laughter and cries of 'good girl'! I could go on, but I'm sure you get the picture. Needless to say, by the time she arrived at my place aged rising 2 she was one of the most dangerous horses I'd ever met. Long story short, she got broken in but continued to be a complete nightmare. A pro rider got her going ok (ish) and she was eventually sold- her saving grace being she could jump well and was a looker.

I just wonders if other posters have experiences of horrendously spoilt horses, and do you think they're the worst kind?
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Depends on the owner, my yearling was spoilt rotten as all my horse are/were, that said I wont tolerate some behaviour nipping - biting - kicking are out.

MY mare was un broken as I said above was spoilt, she was the sweetest horse I could wish for, I could wrap my leg round her hind legs and she would do nothing.

I know some spoit horses whos owners ignore some behaviour,, they are bargy, turn their quarters at you and wont hesitate to bite.

So I disagree with labeling spoilt horses with bad behaviour, if its there that is down to owner to correct. I have a few here not really spoilt and their behaviour is one of the worst.
 
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I spoilt my homebred filly and by the time she was two she was becoming a little to much to handle, my OH made it totally clear that it was my fault and I had to start taking charge and make sure she understood that nipping and kicking out were not acceptable things to do so I did and she became a much nicer animal to be around. She is rising 21 now and is lovely to handle although she can still have her moments in the field when loose. I am very careful with the minis as it is very easy to forget they are ponies but I make sure they have good manners and at two and three years old they are delightful to handle for anyone including small children. I would not spoil a horse or pony again, lesson learnt.
 
Suppose it depends on the definition of spoilt rotten.
My horses get all my time and the highest standard of care possible. Yard jobs are done to 5* standard, they get the best of everything and never stand waiting for me to turn up.

So, yes, they are spoilt rotten. They are stress free and trusting because they never worry about their needs being met, which is why they are loyal, gentle and well mannered.

I think ignorant owners spoil good horses. People who have little equine knowledge or any idea of horse psychology. The phrase that makes me cringe is when owners say 'but I want him/her to love me' as this is usually followed by a demonstration from the horse who sees the owner as a doormat.
 
Well, the definition of spoilt in this case is as in spoilt child. The owner who I mention in my OP like I said , treated the filly like she was a child. She did not believe in any form of discipline AT ALL. Every misdemeanour was treated with laughter and praise. When questioned about this her response was '..but she's only a baaabbyy'.
She would play with her like she was a large puppy, rearing and bucking were encouraged. By the time she was nearly two she was pretty big and a truly monstrous creature to behold. The owner was baffled as to how this could have happened. To this day, I still don't think she really understands where she went wrong...........
 
Hexx, I was just reading through you post again - that horse you describe sounds a right horror!

It made me think, if the potential buyers of the horse came to see it, and you had the opportunity to tip them off about it - would you? (I'm not for one moment suggesting you would.....but it raises an interesting moral dilemma!
I don't know what I would do - perhaps its a topic for another thread....
 
Hexx said:
We have a spoilt one on our yard - apparently he has a "special character". He is lethal! It rears, bucks and naps. the owner has fallen off so many times, she just doesn't register the fall anymore. If he gets free after she's come off, he goes for whatever is in the school at the same time - having been on the receiving end (luckily my horse wasn't injured), I don't ride in the school at the same time as her.

She never reprimands him - even when he lashed out at a lady on our yard and kicked her hard on the thigh resulting in a haematoma the size of an orange - the owner was like, oh dear, you got a bit close.

The scary thing is she is planning to sell him as she wants a mortgage/babies - I just hope she is honest with buyers about his character, otherwise it is a disaster waiting to happen.
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Oops , heres your original quote to go with my above message.
 
I have to say actually, being on a livery yard that breeds sec D's and doesn't handle them until weaning at 6 months, and working on a yard with a homebred who is now 9 months and been handed since birth I prefer the ones who haven't been handled. As you can get them used to it without them trying to bite you and invade your personal space!
The homebred is a little sod and leaps and bucks about on the leadrope but he's getting better and learning very quickly that I won't tolerate him trying to bite me!! When he is being good though, he's a nice boy and doesn't kick out and people etc. Can touch him anywhere and lift feet but he's definitely not got the healthy respect for personal space and his dam doesn't help by not reprimanding him.
 
It's sad really for the spoilt, overhandled ones; when they go off to be broken they are going to have to get 3 years of discipline all in one go.
 
Capriole said:
The worst I've seen was one of the nutters Mike007 mentions, glad I didn't have to deal with the ******.



I agree with that. Mine are homebred, handled every day, and you know what? Not a bit of bother. Fully expected to do as they are told from the start and I don't think they know it's even an option not to. I either get complimented on their manners or (frequently) told how lucky I am that I have (another) well behaved horse (which does gall me actually, like it's accident or coincidence and not taught) :biggrin3:
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I think my mare can be a bit bolshy sometimes - we do have 'discussions' occasionally about personal space yet all the people who've looked after her on full livery say she's one of the easiest to do as she behaves and walks well on a line - I just don't get accepting anything less

ridefast said:
Exactly, I don't see the benefit in leaving a horse out semi feral for 4 years, I've always gone with the thought that if I wouldn't accept this behaviour from an adult horse, then I won't accept it from a "cute" foal.
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Yup, we did handle milo a bit different from an adult horse but in terms of how he was reprimanded not in terms of the manners that were expected.

littleshetland said:
Well, the definition of spoilt in this case is as in spoilt child. The owner who I mention in my OP like I said , treated the filly like she was a child. She did not believe in any form of discipline AT ALL. Every misdemeanour was treated with laughter and praise. When questioned about this her response was '..but she's only a baaabbyy'.
She would play with her like she was a large puppy, rearing and bucking were encouraged. By the time she was nearly two she was pretty big and a truly monstrous creature to behold. The owner was baffled as to how this could have happened. To this day, I still don't think she really understands where she went wrong...........
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I can see that developing easily - Milo went through a phase of 'I don't like this' or 'it's scary' or 'I want to play' and would rear and tended to land with his front feet around shoulder height - not fun when he was 4/5 months old, no way was that going to be allowed to continue as he grew. He learnt within the space of a week or so that it was not acceptable (handled in a hard hat for that week) and has never tried it again since. I can only imagine trying to handle that in a two year old - no thank you!

Megibo said:
I have to say actually, being on a livery yard that breeds sec D's and doesn't handle them until weaning at 6 months, and working on a yard with a homebred who is now 9 months and been handed since birth I prefer the ones who haven't been handled. As you can get them used to it without them trying to bite you and invade your personal space!
The homebred is a little sod and leaps and bucks about on the leadrope but he's getting better and learning very quickly that I won't tolerate him trying to bite me!! When he is being good though, he's a nice boy and doesn't kick out and people etc. Can touch him anywhere and lift feet but he's definitely not got the healthy respect for personal space and his dam doesn't help by not reprimanding him.
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See thats bad handling - Milo tried once or twice to nip and learnt very quickly that it wasn't an acceptable way to behave and that personal space is personal space - he's so strong now I woulnd't like to be teaching those lessons now and he's only 9 months old. There's no reason for a foal handled from birth to not lead nicely and walk well on a lead rope - you teach them from day one about a nice way to walk and they never learn they can do anything else.
I can literally handle Milo everywhere, including on any sore bits/injuries but he also behaves - it was definately helped by him going out into a group of horses who tell him off as needed, his mom was a bit soft on him.
 
You can still over spoil them when they are older and the clever ones soon forget manners/ learn humans can be walked all over. I met one lady who's horse was so 'sensitive' you weren't allowed to look her in the eye (horse that is!) - the owner used to run up and shout at people not to look at her horse because the horse really didn't like it.
Hard to know which was more of a nut job horse or owner - imagine being scared to look at your horse
 
haha mine aren't delicate dolls from day one, but I've heard much the same. In fact, one of my horses had a foal with her last owners and that DID look like a china doll, right b!tch it was too, kicked hell out of it's groom when she was putting feed in. Last I heard it was in training being a talented pita.
 
My personsal experience is just simply the lack of understanding the a horse at adult age is potentially a lethal huge lump of muscle stronger than humans. Think just weaned sec D colt walking with front legs on owners shoulders who was laughing. Think same animal allowed to stop go pull barge. Why cause hes a baby. Fast forward 8 years. A thug. I dont do shouting or hitting(my choice so not looking for an arguement) but by heck all my horses/ponies have always understood eventually my(consistent) rules. Always polite(eg open stable doors wide and they would stand till ask to move on). Pure lack of understanding of what they are creating and i bang head on door so much:(
 
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