Spooking and more spooking, and should I bother entering for 13 Jan?

[Andiamo]

My chap is a spooky horse. No problems with his back, teeth, feet, saddle etc...it's just how he is. Feed is ok (very low sugar - Fast Fibre).
Have tried all the calmers, nothing helps.

I have had him 18 months now. He is a dressage horse, and goes extremely well when he focuses, he is capable of much much more, if only he could concentrate....and stop spooking.

I've tried desensitization, I regularly expose him to as much as possible, he's been out hacking in all sorts of environments, he has variety in his weekly workload. Lately I've been spending time with him in competition environments, just walking him in hand, then sitting on and walking around in all the chaos. He's gone from looking like a volcano about to blow (an onlooker called him this!) to just looking interested as he looks at all the horses, lorries and other activity.
Yesterday I rode him in an arena next to a competition warmup arena - so there were loudspeakers calling riders, lots of commotion, horses & people walking by etc - he spooked and napped a lot, and flat out refused to go into parts of the arena. In dressage terms, he was "against the hand" - he was trying to gawk, and not focus on his work, and was very uncooperative. (I had also pessoa'd him before getting on).

I was really looking forward to doing some dressage tests with him on the 13th Jan...a Prelim & Novice 35. Unaffiliated - so that it doesn't go on his record... I can't decide whether to do it or not....if he focuses, he could definitely place. If he doesn't focus, he'll come last.

Positive perspective - every experience is a good experience, no matter what the outcome

Negative perspective - it might go completely Pete Tong, with lots of spooking and silliness and he'll come last.

Argh, I can't decide what to do. I believe it would be good for him to do it - to get more exposure to being in the ring alone, and scary judges in little boxes etc. If I don't do it, he won't get any better...his spooking won't just stop one day, it's just how he is.

Opinions? Would be great to hear from other people with spooky dressage horses!!

Thanks!!

 

[flyingfeet]

The only way he will learn is to take him out

So I would, but make sure its as boring as possible with lots of hanging around. So get there mega early, warm up for a long time with lots of hanging around. Then after the test warm down in the warm up

I see quite a few people being late, doing their test then shoving horse back on the lorry. So poor things didn't get to learn dressage is boring!

(edited to add this is coming for the person that shoved her polo pony into a dressage test after around 10 sessions with a contact... I have zero shame, and we did some impressive rears in the big Hartpury arena due to the scary international boards, but were ok in the test allbeit it very tense!!)

 

[BeckyD]

I can't see any reason why you shouldn't do it, unless deep down you think it will set him back further. Unaffiliated so low pressure and it's all part of piecing everything together on the desensitising front. It sounds like you've been working really hard and making really good progress at that, but ulatimately you do have to take the next step at some stage. I had a very spooky horse (in fact I still have a slightly spooky one) and it was only through constant outings that I saw any improvement. Don't get me wrong, some days are just bad days and you have to chalk them up to experience, but other days go well and the spooking is minimal.

Good luck, keep calm and it doesn't matter if you come last. This is just a part of the journey and is not the end itself.

 

[Andiamo]

haha thanks Jen_Cots!
I like your comment "I have no shame"!!

I often hear people making comments about comp riders sometimes like, "why did they even bother" or "they should've stayed at home"....
but if we all stayed at home, there would be no shows at all, no participants, and the horses would never get used to the comp environments.

So, being shameless may be the way forward

 

[FfionWinnie]

He's not going to improve unless he gets the exposure so can't see your alternative but to go!

 

[Loulou2002]

I would 100% take him. More for the experience than thinking he is going to go well. I have a really spooky jumping horse.....who was bred for dressage. The first time we took her out i wimped out and got my trainer to ride her. She cleared the whole of the working in (small unaf jumping show) high blowing, tail up in the air, lovely passage etc! I can remember thinking I am never going to be able to ride that! This went on for about 4 or 5 months but then she settled and got used to going out. She is still spooky and sharp and doesn't like the horses in the working in getting close but doesn't get so excited by it all. Your horse will prob always be spooky but i think he will learn to focus once he has been out more.

 

[humblepie]

Enter under an assumed name!

Seriously, agree with above, provided safe and not going to make him worse, sounds like getting out and about is the only way.

Do any centres near you do one of those things where you ride a test, get advice from the judge and then ride it again. That may be useful as it means you get to stay in the arena for probably 20 - 30 minutes.

 

[SpottedCat]

Do you have a set warmup/set thing you do when he gets tense and idiotic? Ignore me if you do this, but horses in general, and especially ones like him, really benefit from having a set routine where you work through a series of movements in your warmup.

I used to enter unaff eventing at the start of the season to give me space to work the idiot moments out of my experienced horse - because it didn't matter if I halted in the middle of the test if that's what he needed. One memorable outing we started well on 8s, he got more and more tense until the final trot and turn up the CL where he went to canter sideways. So we halted, I flexed him to make him give to me, I asked him to move off, he went to canter sideways so I halted etc. I just insisted that he did as he was asked. Obviously we got 2s and 3s for those movements, but also a nice comment from the judge. As it happened, I had a break after me so went back in to the arena and worked him for another 30 mins including running through the entire test!

All that said, I assume you've done all the prep you can do? Ie lots of group lessons away from home, hiring arenas with banners and boards etc? Whilst I agree there comes a point where you have to take them out, until he can work calmly and consistently in a group lesson and in hired arenas with boards and banners, it seems a bit pointless taking him to a competition and expecting him to deal with it!

 

[Andiamo]

Do you have a set warmup/set thing you do when he gets tense and idiotic?

All that said, I assume you've done all the prep you can do? Ie lots of group lessons away from home, hiring arenas with banners and boards etc? Whilst I agree there comes a point where you have to take them out, until he can work calmly and consistently in a group lesson and in hired arenas with boards and banners, it seems a bit pointless taking him to a competition and expecting him to deal with it!

Thanks Spottedcat - There are things we do consistently to warmup, but I wouldn't say it's "set" - it just depends what he is like on the day.
I have booked the arena this Friday - so that we can use it with all the boards set up - before the actual event.
All good advice, thanks ...toffee bonbons in the post for you

Enter under an assumed name!

Excellent idea!!!

Seriously, agree with above, provided safe and not going to make him worse, sounds like getting out and about is the only way.

Do any centres near you do one of those things where you ride a test, get advice from the judge and then ride it again. That may be useful as it means you get to stay in the arena for probably 20 - 30 minutes.

You're right, it won't make him worse.
This particular show centre doesn't do the "test riding" - if they did, I would sign up for it in a flash, it's exactly what we need.

I would 100% take him. More for the experience than thinking he is going to go well. I have a really spooky jumping horse.....who was bred for dressage. The first time we took her out i wimped out and got my trainer to ride her. She cleared the whole of the working in (small unaf jumping show) high blowing, tail up in the air, lovely passage etc! I can remember thinking I am never going to be able to ride that! This went on for about 4 or 5 months but then she settled and got used to going out. She is still spooky and sharp and doesn't like the horses in the working in getting close but doesn't get so excited by it all. Your horse will prob always be spooky but i think he will learn to focus once he has been out more.

Thanks Loulou2002

He's not going to improve unless he gets the exposure so can't see your alternative but to go!

Absolutely see your point....I will drop off my entry today Maybe I should come back to this thread next Monday to let you all know how it went!?

I can't see any reason why you shouldn't do it, unless deep down you think it will set him back further. Unaffiliated so low pressure and it's all part of piecing everything together on the desensitising front. It sounds like you've been working really hard and making really good progress at that, but ulatimately you do have to take the next step at some stage. I had a very spooky horse (in fact I still have a slightly spooky one) and it was only through constant outings that I saw any improvement. Don't get me wrong, some days are just bad days and you have to chalk them up to experience, but other days go well and the spooking is minimal.

Good luck, keep calm and it doesn't matter if you come last. This is just a part of the journey and is not the end itself.

You're right, it won't set him back, it just might be embarrassing for me, the rider I may have to ask the audience to all look away for the next 5 minutes ... you know, it inspires me to know that even top level horses spook - like the Canadian horse at the Team Dressage in Greenwich in the summer...it does happen at all levels...so for example, I don't think anyone would have told that Canadian rider to stay home (apart from his teammates who were all then automatically disqualified!)

 

[Tammytoo]

I know you say you have tried most calmers but have you had a look at the Equifeast "Cool, Calm & Collected? Most calmers are based on magnesium but Equifeast's CCC is calcium based which helps horses to concentrate.

I have seen a lot of favourable comments on the BD forum, so it might be worth having a look at the Equifeast website or giving them a ring for advice.

On the other hand, you may have already tried it and, if so, ignore this!

 

[Ilovefoals]

I would agree with what everyone else has said about it being good experience for him. Do you get tense yourself? If you're expecting him to do it, he probably will. I found when I was competing that the days when my friends came and I was having a laugh and completely relaxed, my mare didn't spook and went lovely. I guess it was because she got good vibes from me With my new boy, I take rescue remedy before I ride which seems to help relax me and in turn him. Worth a try maybe?

 

[Andiamo]

I know you say you have tried most calmers but have you had a look at the Equifeast "Cool, Calm & Collected? Most calmers are based on magnesium but Equifeast's CCC is calcium based which helps horses to concentrate.

I have seen a lot of favourable comments on the BD forum, so it might be worth having a look at the Equifeast website or giving them a ring for advice.

On the other hand, you may have already tried it and, if so, ignore this!

Thanks Tammytooo, I looked into this before, but the cost was prohibitive - about £50 for the first month, then £18 (plus postage) per month - worked out at about £250/year!! Very very expensive.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

i ride a REALLY spooky horse for someone, comes out searchign for things to spook at and then whips round and ******s off shaking his head and threatening to rear.

this:

http://shop.horserequisites.co.uk/e...ectPath=/Shops/13062006-11837/Products/A07001

makes a HUGE diff to him, really makes him from quite dangerous, to just nicely forward going and NMT has tried it on Fig with similar good results.

i would also really try and have a set warm up, CS is a horse of routine and if i change my warm up around he gets more and more pissy. I have to run through the same 4 things in the same order, every single day, but it works for him

 

[Andiamo]

I would agree with what everyone else has said about it being good experience for him. Do you get tense yourself? If you're expecting him to do it, he probably will. I found when I was competing that the days when my friends came and I was having a laugh and completely relaxed, my mare didn't spook and went lovely. I guess it was because she got good vibes from me With my new boy, I take rescue remedy before I ride which seems to help relax me and in turn him. Worth a try maybe?

Thanks Ilovefoals
In reality I am probably a bit tense, worrying about what he'll do in the test - will he spook at the judge? will he rear on the centre line? will he gawk around and therefore fight the contact?
I probably get a bit intense - I want to do everything perfectly in all the right places, and don't want to make any mistakes.
I have a bottle of Rescue Remedy, maybe I will have some before the test.

 

[ihatework]

Having a real set warm up routine really does help some horses, it can be like a comfort blanket to them in some ways, so worth playing with that and tweaking it to perfect.

Another thing you need to find is one or two set movements/exercises that unlock him if goes into meltdown.

Early days, it may even be worth entering your tests HC and warning the judge - will give you a bit of leeway to adlib in the test if he is a plonker. The most difficult thing I find is to continue a set test when you have that rigid tense horse underneath you, just gets worse the further you go.

As for test riding - I have a feeling you are near me ish - BD central are running a series of test riding sessions with Jenny Ward (who is excellent) in Wokingham - might be worth doing a couple of those, they are monthly for the next 4 months, I'm booked into a couple.

 

[Andiamo]

i ride a REALLY spooky horse for someone, comes out searchign for things to spook at and then whips round and ******s off shaking his head and threatening to rear.

this:

http://shop.horserequisites.co.uk/e...ectPath=/Shops/13062006-11837/Products/A07001

makes a HUGE diff to him, really makes him from quite dangerous, to just nicely forward going and NMT has tried it on Fig with similar good results.

i would also really try and have a set warm up, CS is a horse of routine and if i change my warm up around he gets more and more pissy. I have to run through the same 4 things in the same order, every single day, but it works for him

Thanks Prince33Sp4rkle -
Can you share what you do as your "set warmup"? It will help to give me some ideas.

I always do this:
1) Carrot stretches on both sides before getting on
2) Mount, and walk for 10-15 minutes at least, trying to get him to drop his nose as low as possible
3) After the walking-in - Leg yield on both reins - just in walk from centre line to the fence, to get him responding to the leg
4) Shoulder in - in walk - to get him bending through his body and flexing, and it supples him prior to the work phase
5) If he now gives some long relaxed snorts, I then pick him up and start to trot
6) Now I do several trot-halt-trot transitions on both reins - to get him on the aides
7) - work phase now begins

 

[TarrSteps]

Just as a note, the horse that lost its marbles at the
Olympics was unexpected as, by dressage standards, that horse is usually okay. So while it may be an example of the fact that horses will always surprise you sometimes,.it's not really an example of someone winging it without thorough preparation.

 

[Andiamo]

Having a real set warm up routine really does help some horses, it can be like a comfort blanket to them in some ways, so worth playing with that and tweaking it to perfect.

Another thing you need to find is one or two set movements/exercises that unlock him if goes into meltdown.

Early days, it may even be worth entering your tests HC and warning the judge - will give you a bit of leeway to adlib in the test if he is a plonker. The most difficult thing I find is to continue a set test when you have that rigid tense horse underneath you, just gets worse the further you go.

As for test riding - I have a feeling you are near me ish - BD central are running a series of test riding sessions with Jenny Ward (who is excellent) in Wokingham - might be worth doing a couple of those, they are monthly for the next 4 months, I'm booked into a couple.

Hi Ihatework - if he goes into meltdown, I just stay calm and kick on, being nicey-nice doesn't work with him...I have to make a very obvious point.
Good to know that the "set warmup" can be like a security blanket. I've listed what I do in my warmup...feel free to critique it...a Grand Prix trainer / rider (trains with Carl) taught me to do these things to warm him up and supple him prior to beginning the work phase of a session.

HC - good idea. Warning the judge - VERY good idea )
Test riding - they also do it at Sparsholt College on show days. I have recently moved him to a comp centre in the south, so he's actually competing at home! (which doesn't stop him from behaving badly), but they don't do test riding at this centre. I will bring it up with the show secretary though, and see if they can start doing it.

- bottle of wine on its way to you

 

[Andiamo]

I'm actually going to watch a Conrad Schumacher dressage clinic tomorrow, I am really hoping he has some spooky customers, so that I can see how Conrad tells the rider to deal with it. If anyone is in the Dorset area, and interested to come to watch Conrad, PM me...it's £10 for a spectator ticket (includes coffee,tea for the day)

 

[Skippys Mum]

I used to have problems with Arnie being very very spooky (just in general - we dont do dressage) and I discovered that any form of sugar beet was setting him off. Even Fast Fibre which is supposedly non heating is made from about 50% sugar beet and it drove him loopy. Once I took him off all forms of beet he settled fine.

I have now altered his diet and he gets brewers yeast and calmag and I have now been able to reintroduce speedybeet and/or fast fibre but its maybe worth taking him off it and seeing if it makes any difference?

 

[ihatework]

Thanks Prince33Sp4rkle -
Can you share what you do as your "set warmup"? It will help to give me some ideas.

I always do this:
1) Carrot stretches on both sides before getting on
2) Mount, and walk for 10-15 minutes at least, trying to get him to drop his nose as low as possible
3) After the walking-in - Leg yield on both reins - just in walk from centre line to the fence, to get him responding to the leg
4) Shoulder in - in walk - to get him bending through his body and flexing, and it supples him prior to the work phase
5) If he now gives some long relaxed snorts, I then pick him up and start to trot
6) Now I do several trot-halt-trot transitions on both reins - to get him on the aides
7) - work phase now begins

See, what works with one horse doesn't work with another.
For example the mare I have recently strarted riding, as much as I would like her too, doesn't 'do' stretching at the beginning of a session ... she holds herself, gets a bit worried if she isn't being ridden to a contact and then the tension creeps in. With her she does literally 2-3 mins walk on a loose rein with her nose stuck out before I'll take a contact and ride her in a contact for a good 15-20 mins, including a fair bit of lateral work, before she'll let me stretch her and start to release herself.

 

[Andiamo]

@Tarrsteps...great horse at the Olympics, but he has a history of being very spooky...I know someone who bought him as a 4 year old (in Denmark), and sent him back for this reason. It's good to understand though, that although he's incredible, world class, and has done consistently well, and qualified for the Olympics, he is and always was a spooky horse. So, there's hope for all the spooky horses out there ...

 

[Andiamo]

I used to have problems with Arnie being very very spooky (just in general - we dont do dressage) and I discovered that any form of sugar beet was setting him off. Even Fast Fibre which is supposedly non heating is made from about 50% sugar beet and it drove him loopy. Once I took him off all forms of beet he settled fine.

I have now altered his diet and he gets brewers yeast and calmag and I have now been able to reintroduce speedybeet and/or fast fibre but its maybe worth taking him off it and seeing if it makes any difference?

So, what feed do you give now then? Interesting hypothesis, and worth looking at. But if he is not too bad some days, and really bad other days, I am not sure it is the feed....if it was the feed he'd consistently be a twit, no?

 

[Andiamo]

See, what works with one horse doesn't work with another.
For example the mare I have recently strarted riding, as much as I would like her too, doesn't 'do' stretching at the beginning of a session ... she holds herself, gets a bit worried if she isn't being ridden to a contact and then the tension creeps in. With her she does literally 2-3 mins walk on a loose rein with her nose stuck out before I'll take a contact and ride her in a contact for a good 15-20 mins, including a fair bit of lateral work, before she'll let me stretch her and start to release herself.

It depends on the day as well. Yesterday, I wouldn't have dared in the first 30 minutes to have him on a long rein - I'd have been catapulted over the fence.
On very tense, hyper-alert days, he gets his carrot stretches, then after mounting he is walked in Medium Walk and I do all the aforementioned suppling exercises. Once he is relaxed, after a considerable period of working in, then I can give him a walk-break , and let him stretch down long and low.
I'd say probably 60-70% of sessions have to start with medium walk, the other 30-40% he can start with a long rein in walk.

He has no turnout out the moment, and this is not helping! (muddy and flooded fields!)

 

[Firewell]

Definitly take him. Who cares about coming last, this is training .
Is he spooky at home? I would just keep taking him out again and again and again untill it is so *yawn*. Sometimes just taking them to one venue helps as it becomes like home and it breaks the cycle of them misbehaving when being taken out. It also ceases to seem like a competitive environment for both of you when you are so used to going . Then you go somewhere else and they already have the pattern of behaving well out *hopefully* installed!

 

[Firewell]

Eeek with no turnout i'd definitly lunge before you put him on the lorry. Give him a good canter around!

 

[Andiamo]

Thanks Firewell!

By the way, here's some piccies from Friday last week...(Jan 4, 2013)

- above - this is right before a big spook that left me dangling in the air as he shot off in the other direction! - all because another horse came around the corner!

 

[Scarlett]

What happens if you get on in the warm up and start trotting? Is he any better when sent forward? I have one that attempting to walk at the beginning in the warm up is a sure fire way to end up in the air, once she's had a good power trot round she stops spooking and settles.

My current boy is similar, waking is an excuse to look and spook, a good trot, and with him a canter, gets his legs moving and really helps him settle....

 

[Johnny999]

I have similar problems with mine....
Is often like sitting on an atomic bomb. Has pulled most tricks on the book from massive rears, galloping out of dressage arenas, refusing to go in. Napping to the trailer park xc........ and it's suffolk punch x so when it sets it's neck, options are limited.

However! I knew what I was getting into and am lucky to have the support of a very good 3* friend and an instructor which I see daily, that has seen just about everything.

In my humble opinion you absolutely MUST keep going out. And the more regular the better.
You must also be realistic. If big numbers in the collecting ring trigger a problem. Try some smaller shows before moving back up. If a venue is 'looky', try a different one for a few events. Do your competition nerves get transmitted to the horse? Try a clinic at the same venue etc.

Also try to be positive at all times. If it comes out of the box snotting steam...it could settle in the warm up....get on and kick it on as normal.

Measure your success. Negatives are not allowed. My last time out it refused to go in the arena....needed a tow from another horse and stopped at Jump 9 the really scary cartoon winged one. However it was like a lamb at the box after and warmed up indoors with a million others in a tiny space without being a plonker....both an improvement to being dragged the full length of the lorry park the time before and having to be lead into the warm up as barns are scary.

I was grooming at Belton next to one of our very best olympic eventers...just passing the time of day. And she came up with a wonderful phase...... Provided you are realistic....'set your goals in concrete, but set the timescale in sand'
My goal is BE90 or 100. At 12yo, I've got 4-6 years to pull it off. Doesn't matter when. Rossettes are a couple of quid each and they say whatever you want from the trophy shop ;-).....the journey is far more rewarding. 6 months ago it wouldn't go in a box. Now have a 3rd for little dressage and a 3rd for combined training.....it'll get there.

 

[humblepie]

I was going to say like Scarlett- what happens if you basically trot straight away and do lots of circles, serpentines etc so that he has less time to think than in walk and has to be listening to you as not sure what you want him to do next?