Spooky but not a sharp horse would love him to relax

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Hi Guys - wonder if anyone has had the same as me and has found ways to get through that I have not thought of. I have a lovely 8 year old gelding (Had for about 18 months plus) He is the spookiest horse I have ever had but he is not sharp at all. I have had many spooky horses in the past but they have always been sharp as tacks. This lad will spook every day in the school at anything from fillers that have fallen to a corner with jump wings in it. My main problem is that when you ride him he never, ever, totally relaxes his head and neck and therefore, by default, the rest of his body, as he is ALWAYS looking at what is around him in case it is scary, in school, competition or hacking. Every single transition we ever do he is just busting to see if there is anything he needs to spook at which instantly means body tension. Over time I thought that with patience this would improve, and it has to a certain extent but not by much. I have been doing a bit of everything with him to let him experience as much as poss but I have come to conclusion I think that it is a confidence thing - basically he is a big woose.

Has anyone else had a horse like this? He is a canny lump to handle, to clip he literally doesn't move until you finish, in a line up at a showing show he falls asleep, he will stand in the lorry at shows on his own with no fuss but take him into a dressage arena with white boards or to showjump and you would think he has never seen either before - even though he has seen them hundreds of times. In a dressage test when you give him the free rein in walk his first instinct is always to look around to see what is spooky rather than stretch down to relax. To jump he is a waverer - not with the jumps themselves but with what is around the arena. He has come on tremendously though as he used to knock down fences if something took his attention away. He now confident enough to show his talent over a fence but is still so spooky anywhere else or in a competition. He is trying his hardest I can tell, as he trusts me but oh my word what I would give to just be able to ride him to a point of relaxation so that he is not tense.

I am an experienced rider who has bought on many horses to show jump at a decent level, have evented as well in my youth and bred many lovely horses but in all my years I have never come across a horse so determined that everything is out to get him He is not overfed and underworked, gets oodles of turnout if he is not out 24 hours which he still is at the moment, I don't react to his spooks which has helped but not cured, he has had among other things his teeth, health, eyesight etc checked. He gets regular sessions with chiro and physio etc. I would love to hear of anyone who has had the same experiences and anything that helped you other than a saintly dose of patience and perseverance. I know his previous owner got so fed up with him spooking that he stuck him in draw reins. PS Am not really into supplements but did try a couple of big brand calmers even though he isn't sharp- no difference at all but I am always open minded to suggestions but prefer proven 'science behind them' ones only. Sorry but no crystal waving or talk to my horse suggestions please I am way too practical lol. He is a fabulous horse whom I enjoy but wondering if there is hope he will ever change


I have one fab trainer who really likes this horse and is the one who persuaded me to persevere and he has helped me with him hugely. I have had offers to buy him as he seems on the surface to be a fabulous looking allrounder but I have held onto him as I really do like the big soft lad

Thanks for getting this far and I wouuld love to hear from anyone who persevered with a horse like this.

 

[be positive]

Totally against what should work but have you tried getting after him a bit and telling him to toughen up, sometimes they need telling that they are brave in a fairly straightforward way without being a bully or setting them up to fail, just the odd kick or slap can work to give them a bit of confidence when you think it would be the worst thing to do, if he was sharp I would probably work differently but a horse that is laid back generally can sometimes benefit from the odd kick up the bum, they can then leave you to be in control and relax properly.

 

[Abbeygale]

Does he get better or worse the more you challenge him?

My mare is a bit the same - she can be a complete dope on a rope, but once she gets distracted by something, her brain just seems to fall out of her ear . But I have found that when she is being silly, the more questions I ask of her, the more she will concentrate.

A really good example of this was at a gridwork clinic recently - we started off with poles on the floor (both of us very inexperienced over poles etc) - she was having a complete hooley about the poles, sideways, jumping up and down. Once the poles turned into jumps and she actually had to think about what she was doing, she was totally amazing.

On the flat, I have found us introducing counter canter has been really good for her - she was messing around in a lesson the other day, but when I started cantering her towards the wall of the arena, she suddenly stopped messing around as though she was going "wait a minute - we don't normally canter towards the wall like this...".

She seems to like being challenged, but I have had to accept that our progress in "real terms" (i.e. compared to others, which I do try and avoid doing) will probably be slower than I would like. I spend a lot of time laughing at her and telling her how nosy she is! I haven't got as far as getting out the other side yet - and probably never will, but I love having her around as she is such a nice "person" to deal with

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I would look very carefully at his diet, in case there is one ingredient that 'sets him on edge' and stops him relaxing properly. It could be anything, I've had horses react to alfalfa, all cereals, molasses, seaweed, Brewers'Yeast, carrots and more. I would take his feed right back to hay only and see what happens. If there is an improvement in about a month, then I would start adding in single ingredients to see if I could pinpoint the problem.

 

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I would look very carefully at his diet, in case there is one ingredient that 'sets him on edge' and stops him relaxing properly. It could be anything, I've had horses react to alfalfa, all cereals, molasses, seaweed, Brewers'Yeast, carrots and more. I would take his feed right back to hay only and see what happens. If there is an improvement in about a month, then I would start adding in single ingredients to see if I could pinpoint the problem.

Thanks for this answer - it would be great if it was feed related but it is not - His diet at the moment is grass and home grown either hay or haylage, plus vitamins added to some chaff with ****** all in it so it is defo not feed related. He is a very good doer. As our grass content dies off at this time of year and he starts coming in a night he is on a reputable all in one low grain/high fibre feed which he does very well on but his behaviour is no different - but thankyou

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Thanks for this answer - it would be great if it was feed related but it is not - His diet at the moment is grass and home grown either hay or haylage, plus vitamins added to some chaff with ****** all in it so it is defo not feed related. He is a very good doer. As our grass content dies off at this time of year and he starts coming in a night he is on a reputable all in one low grain/high fibre feed which he does very well on but his behaviour is no different - but thankyou

Can I ask what chaff you use and do your vitamins come in a carrier?

 

[Animation]

Totally against what should work but have you tried getting after him a bit and telling him to toughen up, sometimes they need telling that they are brave in a fairly straightforward way without being a bully or setting them up to fail, just the odd kick or slap can work to give them a bit of confidence when you think it would be the worst thing to do, if he was sharp I would probably work differently but a horse that is laid back generally can sometimes benefit from the odd kick up the bum, they can then leave you to be in control and relax properly.
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...e-would-love-him-to-relax#uhrdUXPdHRhcEbqI.99

Replying to be positive
I do know exactly what you mean and have had other horses that responded well to just being told to get on with it. Not quite this fella though. The one thing that has worked is my trainer telling me not to get after him as such but to ride every single stride on him with more rein pressure (still soft elbows though) than I would normally ride my horses with. This has been a bit of a lightbulb moment and a way to ride him and we do this upto, over and away from every single fence now which has made a big difference. Basically me saying look mate I got this and it is alright! This horse defo prefers me to be in control and that has allowed him to concentrate a little more, although I am still disappointed that we have not got past that brick wall of his constant desire to be checking his environment, hence the constant tension - my best Xmas pressie would be to feel this horse take a big breath, chill relax and stretch his frame down of his own accord. I would crack open the Bolli!

 

[be positive]

The tense jumping pony I had here used to hold his breath to the point that he could barely cope with any extended periods of exercise, he almost had to relearn how to breathe and work at the same time, not sure how much it helped but we used a product similar to the one linked below to help him open his airways he got far better and even managed to event which at one time I would have doubted we could get him fit enough for, he did learn to reach down and take a full deep breath, it sounds so simple but I know how frustrating it can be .
I still have the tub and we are using it for another horse but the label has gone so I cannot tell you exactly what make it is, this is worth a try at the price.

https://www.viovet.co.uk/Gold_Label_Vapor_Cream_for_Horses/c12121/

 

[JGC]

I would still look at his feed like Pearlsasinger said, as my last horse would go loopy on just a handful of chaff (alfalfa or molasses), apples and carrots (sugar was a no-go) or hayledge (I think because of too much sugar). He also went spooky when there was too much sugar in the grass.

It might also be worth gettting your hay and hayledge analysed - often the wrong magnesium and calcium levels can make them spooky and the balancer might not be helping if they don't address the right balance. It shouldn't be too expensive and can be very interesting.

I guess you've probably been through this with your trainer, but just in case, I had to get mine really, really forward - if he felt forward-ish and looked OK from the ground, he would spook. If he was doing big trot or canter around the arena, which looked a bit OTT from the ground, he wouldn't spook. I would repeat to myself - "my only solution to this is forwards". Like yours, mine would need a real contact into a fence, which felt tough to me at first, but I eventually realized that he just needed his hand holding, so to speak. I used to call him Scooby Doo, as I think at times he would have jumped into my arms if he could have. He would follow me anywhere on foot and was always better if someone was standing in the arena - like a security blanket. I also had to be really firm all the time on the ground - if I told him to stand there for grooming, hoof picking, getting on, anything, he had to stay where I put him. I think maybe he needed to know that I was in charge at all times, so he could relax.

Is yours a warmblood, by any chance? Good luck, anyway, it sounds like you're well on the way to cracking it.

 

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For pearlsasinger
Of course you can - for chaff I have used various ones - from my feed suppliers own branded, no mollasses added, chopped hay and wheat straw one, I have also used honeychop's oat straw and I have also used the horshage original that I know has molasses in it.
The vitamins are Spillers Equivite as that has a decent copper level and my soil here is low in copper which showed up after having soil analysis done. My broodmares when I moved here to our farm appeared to get a little lethargic and after some veterinary detective work and soil analysis that was deemed to be the cause.
At certain times of the grass growing season my horses (including him) are literally on the grass with nothing extra at all being fed to any of them.
Think my point is really that it has never mattered what chaff/feeds he has been on his behaviour is consistent but I do totally get your point about just one thing setting him off.

 

[Animation]

I would still look at his feed like Pearlsasinger said, as my last horse would go loopy on just a handful of chaff (alfalfa or molasses), apples and carrots (sugar was a no-go) or hayledge (I think because of too much sugar). He also went spooky when there was too much sugar in the grass.

It might also be worth gettting your hay and hayledge analysed - often the wrong magnesium and calcium levels can make them spooky and the balancer might not be helping if they don't address the right balance. It shouldn't be too expensive and can be very interesting.

I guess you've probably been through this with your trainer, but just in case, I had to get mine really, really forward - if he felt forward-ish and looked OK from the ground, he would spook. If he was doing big trot or canter around the arena, which looked a bit OTT from the ground, he wouldn't spook. I would repeat to myself - "my only solution to this is forwards". Like yours, mine would need a real contact into a fence, which felt tough to me at first, but I eventually realized that he just needed his hand holding, so to speak. I used to call him Scooby Doo, as I think at times he would have jumped into my arms if he could have. He would follow me anywhere on foot and was always better if someone was standing in the arena - like a security blanket. I also had to be really firm all the time on the ground - if I told him to stand there for grooming, hoof picking, getting on, anything, he had to stay where I put him. I think maybe he needed to know that I was in charge at all times, so he could relax.

Is yours a warmblood, by any chance? Good luck, anyway, it sounds like you're well on the way to cracking it.

JGC - lol yes mine is a warmblood and I have to ride with the word forwards in my head at all times. Hay and haylage been analysed to check for deficiences and I am low in copper here so the vitamin supplement I use is to counterbalance that and seems to work.

Totally with you on the they would jump into your arms scenario as mine is the same Sounds like you managed to crack this behaviour with your horse fantastic that gives me hope as it can get very frustrating. Interesting too to hear that yours also responded to more rein contact well, they defo like the feeling that the rider is in charge. Thanks.

 

[JillA]

Magnesium deficiency? Presents as an over abundance of adrenaline, and easy enough to rule out by feeding MagOx as a supplement for a couple of weeks. Lots of grazing land in the UK is short of Mag thanks to forcing grass growth with nitrogen for many years,

 

[Animation]

The tense jumping pony I had here used to hold his breath to the point that he could barely cope with any extended periods of exercise, he almost had to relearn how to breathe and work at the same time, not sure how much it helped but we used a product similar to the one linked below to help him open his airways he got far better and even managed to event which at one time I would have doubted we could get him fit enough for, he did learn to reach down and take a full deep breath, it sounds so simple but I know how frustrating it can be .
I still have the tub and we are using it for another horse but the label has gone so I cannot tell you exactly what make it is, this is worth a try at the price.

https://www.viovet.co.uk/Gold_Label_Vapor_Cream_for_Horses/c12121/

Be positive - now that is something I have never considered - that the horse may be holding his breath - how interesting. Mine doesn't sound quite as tense as your pony was but that is fascinating. And you are right it is incredibly frustrating great to hear that you cracked it with your pony. I will look into this thanks.

 

[JGC]

JGC - lol yes mine is a warmblood and I have to ride with the word forwards in my head at all times. Hay and haylage been analysed to check for deficiences and I am low in copper here so the vitamin supplement I use is to counterbalance that and seems to work.

Totally with you on the they would jump into your arms scenario as mine is the same Sounds like you managed to crack this behaviour with your horse fantastic that gives me hope as it can get very frustrating. Interesting too to hear that yours also responded to more rein contact well, they defo like the feeling that the rider is in charge. Thanks.

Yes, he wasn't beyond the occasional spook, but he was so much better at the end, but it was a long process. Warmbloods!

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I was wondering about the chaff because I know that some are coated in soya oil, which could cause a problem. However it sounds is if you have used a variety and not seen much change in him the Honeychop is certainly plain (if that's the one you used).
I have never used Equivite but if your horse were mine, I would check out exactly what is in it. I have to admit that Spillers isn't the first company that springs to mind when I think of equine healthy eating.
I know from experience that it can take a while for traces of something 'undesirable' to leave the body and stop affecting them, so unless your horses sometimes go for months without the Equivite, I wouldn't rule that out.
The problem is, of course, that what affects one horse adversely can be just the perfect thing for another. For instance, I had a TBx who could only tolerate alfalfa and grass and went crazy on anything else, while I now have a couple of Appaloosas who can't touch alfalfa because it sends them completely over the top.

Of course it could just be that he needs to develop more confidence in you, I've had one like that too, - one of the bolshiest horses I've ever met, who thought that she had to be in charge all the time but really didn't have the confidence to do so and needed the rider to be very much in charge, - she was the same on the ground too!

 

[spookypony]

Beyond investigating the feed questions, and simply giving it even more time (seems to be working with my mare), another possible (cheap) avenue of investigation that his relatively young age might not have suggested: perhaps a Cushing's test? I now know of quite a few horses diagnosed at a younger age than usually considered, as we now seem to spot subtle symptoms much earlier. One was just 6 when he was diagnosed, and that was after a year of investigation for all sorts of other things. He's a different horse with treatment. Certainly, extraordinary spookiness can be a symptom.

Or maybe your horse is just very very spooky. That's also possible.

 

[Animation]

Magnesium deficiency? Presents as an over abundance of adrenaline, and easy enough to rule out by feeding MagOx as a supplement for a couple of weeks. Lots of grazing land in the UK is short of Mag thanks to forcing grass growth with nitrogen for many years,

Hi JillA - tried that as that was my first thought with this edgy horse. Then I tried a couple of calmers as stated in post. I am absolutely no expert in mineral deficiences etc but did take veterinary advice on combating the deficieny shown in our soil analysis. We use a mixture of nitrogen fertiliser on our soil followed the next year by using our own very well rotted muck which should, according to my farmer husband go some way to combating the situation you mention, namely ground short of magnesium. But I have to take his word for it on that score - as he tells me. he is the expert

 

[ihatework]

Couple of things to suggest.

Cheap one is to try him on valerian for a bit. Not competition legal but actually very useful for the anxious types.

The other thing is pain. Has he had a proper vet check? I might be inclined, with the agreement of your vet, to bung a load of bute into him for a couple of weeks and see if you notice any difference

 

[JillA]

Or confidence in you - are you being firm but fair and not worrying about what is around the next corner?

And regarding your soil (OH might be right - for livestock in general, do you have dairy cattle, they will flag up a magnesium deficiency as staggers?) it sounds as though you have a closed loop with just nitrogen added, so any Mg deficiencies won t be addressed. Sarah Braithwaite at Forageplus is very good at soil and/or forage analyses and balancing any deficiencies. What sort of analysis did you work off, the one I had done by a local contractor was very basic, the Forageplus ones are very much more detailed. Sorry maybe you have gone down that route but for others..............

 

[Animation]

Beyond investigating the feed questions, and simply giving it even more time (seems to be working with my mare), another possible (cheap) avenue of investigation that his relatively young age might not have suggested: perhaps a Cushing's test? I now know of quite a few horses diagnosed at a younger age than usually considered, as we now seem to spot subtle symptoms much earlier. One was just 6 when he was diagnosed, and that was after a year of investigation for all sorts of other things. He's a different horse with treatment. Certainly, extraordinary spookiness can be a symptom.

Or maybe your horse is just very very spooky. That's also possible.

Interesting thankyou - not something that would have occured to me in such young horse - absolutely no other symptoms of that other than the spook will bear in mind

 

[Animation]

Or confidence in you - are you being firm but fair and not worrying about what is around the next corner?

And regarding your soil (OH might be right - for livestock in general, do you have dairy cattle, they will flag up a magnesium deficiency as staggers?) it sounds as though you have a closed loop with just nitrogen added, so any Mg deficiencies won t be addressed. Sarah Braithwaite at Forageplus is very good at soil and/or forage analyses and balancing any deficiencies. What sort of analysis did you work off, the one I had done by a local contractor was very basic, the Forageplus ones are very much more detailed. Sorry maybe you have gone down that route but for others..............

Hi JillA - yes if it was me would hold hands up but am a very confident rider who doesn't notice what's around the corner and wouldn't if this particular horse didn't keep pointing it out to me! Actually to be fair most of the time there isn't anything anywhere, it is as if he is constanty gearing himself up just in case there is! Hey ho suspect he is just a genuinely spooky horse and I am just going to have to live with it.

Analysis was done by friend who has a crop fertiliser company so analysis was very detailed and drilled right down. Should also mention there are lots of horses on our farm and always have been but this is the only one who has ever been like this. Once again though thanks for your reply.

Think I just want someone to tell me that all the work will be worth it in the end. *sighs* - it would just be so lovely to compete him to his full ability as he has lots, rather than going back to square one with him acting like a greenhorn horse at every outing - you know what I mean! But that is horses for you

 

[Britestar]

You said he's has physio and chiro, but it may be worth trying an equine osteopath.

This has changed my spooky, sharp and very difficult horse into a much easier more laid back guy.

He had cranio sacral treatment under sedation and he's like a brand new horse (9yr old homebred).

 

[Regandal]

You say he's ok on the ground - not permanently wired. Just spooky when ridden. I'd be looking at saddle, back, then further in-depth for pain.
My horse is a reformed spooker following a saddle re-flock.

 

[oldjumper]

You could be describing my horse ...and me! I am a confident, experienced rider but have never had one quite like this. Hopefully, some encouragement for you is that mine is now transformed - but it's taken nearly 3 years! I went through pretty well everything suggested here and that you've tried. Nothing made any difference. It was only his inherent good nature and ease of handling (he too is brilliant to take out to events, in traffic etc) that encouraged me to keep going. I'd like to give you a 'quick fix' but of course there isn't one, it's been a combination of lots of things: Diet. He was so tense and not putting on the condition he should that we scanned for ulcers. Grade 3 ulcers, treated for 2 months. He already had daily turnout, ad lib haylage, 3 or 4 feeds a day. Lots of trial and error (and prof advice)now on Saracen re-lieve, alfa A, equifeast mag free ultimate. Work/training: Again, tried too much to list but what eventually worked: Take pressure off but keep calmly supportive. Don't react when spook/spin/panic at fences....and def don't drive forward when 'looking'. Letting him stand and 'think' when riding out and make his own decisions about advancing on the 'lions'. Turning round was never an option (though in a very few extreme cases getting off and leading past was). Rider: The most difficult aspect. However experienced you are it's impossible not to get tense when expecting a sudden spook, this feeds horse's tension. Again it's about taking pressure off (the rider) and reversing the 'vicious circle'. Constant repetition until horse, and rider, relax. This can be trotting round the school or round the block, going past spook triggers until both are probably tired and bored but totally relaxed. This takes as long as it takes so allow ages but it reminds both parties how it should feel. We also put competing and clinics aside for a while and just worked one to one so we could always adjust to circumstances on the day. One other thing that I found helped when riding out was having iplayer in pocket so we could both hear the music! Hopefully you will find some things in this that may help but all horses are different and you have to find the key to how they think and learn. Sounds like you are an ideal person to work with this horse. I wish you the best of luck.....and endless patience!