Spurs or no spurs?

Im of the opinion spurs should be banned at all levels of equestrian sport and training. So should whips be in the racing industry.

I find it puzzling that spurs haven't been banned in this day and age certainly in countries that have a long record of putting animal welfare high on their agendas.
 
Anything can be used to enhance & used to abuse. Personally I never carry a whip or use spurs, don't need them.

When I used to do fence judging, I used to hate being on the first fence for the mini classes. You'd get mums (have to say never hada dad), coming asking if they could stand by the fence with a lunge whip to engourage darlings pony over (once he gets over the first one he's fine apparently). Always refused (after all does constitute outside interference), to see darling turn up on pony wearing spurs & with 3 ring gag snaffle in it's chops (with the ever-present flash noseband & martingale as well). Cue mummy yelling (usually 'kick him on!'), darling doing the pony club kick with the spurs, then after 2 refusals pony agrees to do the jump, getting jabbed in the chops with the gag as rider looses balance for his efforts.

Used by talanted, responsible, calm riders I have no issue with them.
 
Koen said:
Im of the opinion spurs should be banned at all levels of equestrian sport and training. So should whips be in the racing industry.

I find it puzzling that spurs haven't been banned in this day and age certainly in countries that have a long record of putting animal welfare high on their agendas.
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Why on earth would anyone object to small rubber ball spurs? Do you actually know what a spur is and the correct use of one?

Now, I agree with objecting to misuse of spurs, and certainly in BSJA in Scotland, you would be hauled up in front of the judges if you did that.

Now, long distance live transportation, not enough turnout, pts healthy horses, riders too heavy for their horses, unsound horses in pain being ridden - all things I would concern myself before some aesthetic objection based on a personal and seemingly rather obsessive dislike of spurs.
 
pip6 said:
Anything can be used to enhance & used to abuse. Personally I never carry a whip or use spurs, don't need them.

When I used to do fence judging, I used to hate being on the first fence for the mini classes. You'd get mums (have to say never hada dad), coming asking if they could stand by the fence with a lunge whip to engourage darlings pony over (once he gets over the first one he's fine apparently). Always refused (after all does constitute outside interference), to see darling turn up on pony wearing spurs & with 3 ring gag snaffle in it's chops (with the ever-present flash noseband & martingale as well). Cue mummy yelling (usually 'kick him on!'), darling doing the pony club kick with the spurs, then after 2 refusals pony agrees to do the jump, getting jabbed in the chops with the gag as rider looses balance for his efforts.

Used by talanted, responsible, calm riders I have no issue with them.
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Brill!!!
 
Koen said:
Im of the opinion spurs should be banned at all levels of equestrian sport and training. So should whips be in the racing industry.

I find it puzzling that spurs haven't been banned in this day and age certainly in countries that have a long record of putting animal welfare high on their agendas.
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Drivel.
 
Koen said:
Im of the opinion spurs should be banned at all levels of equestrian sport and training. So should whips be in the racing industry.

I find it puzzling that spurs haven't been banned in this day and age certainly in countries that have a long record of putting animal welfare high on their agendas.
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If someone is the type of person to want to hurt an animal then I'm sure they'll find a way to hurt them with or without the use of whips or spurs.
I personally see nothing wrong with either when used correctly.
 
I think there is sometimes a misconception about what spurs are used for, for example to make horses go faster, but that's not really the case.
Many experienced riders, including top pros, use blunt spurs to provide a more accurate and precise leg aid, which could be so a certain movement can be performed at exactly the right moment in a dressage test, or a turn in a jump off, or jump a narrow corner xc where a high level of accuracy is required.
I can't see how spurs used in this way are cruel.
Obviously if the spurs are sharp, or the person is booting the hell out of a horse with them on then that's a different story, which is why spurs should really only be used by more experienced riders who have control of their lower legs.
 
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I think there are other, far more serious welfare issues that you might consider campaigning against. Spurs, used correctly, are not cruel. Misuse of spurs, whips, lead ropes, shovels, buckets, lungelines, etc, is the fault of the user, not the tool.
 
I have no problems with spurs they are just a tool like any other .
I use if I want to but never use them with young horses or retraining horses .
 
Koen said:
Im of the opinion spurs should be banned at all levels of equestrian sport and training. So should whips be in the racing industry.

I find it puzzling that spurs haven't been banned in this day and age certainly in countries that have a long record of putting animal welfare high on their agendas.
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Blimey, I guess this makes me a horse abuser then!

I use them because my horse's barrel shape combined with my height mean only about 3 inches of my leg below the knee actually make contact with his sides. This isn't a problem for jumping or basic schooling especially as horse is forward but for more complicated flatwork that involves more than just going forwards I need to be able to give a more refined combination of leg aids without drawing my leg up and back and raising my heel which completely disrupts my position and spurs allow me to do this.

Horse has never been injured by their use, has never even received a rub mark and he doesn't show any sign of distress at their use (tail swishing, kicking out, misbehaviour etc) so what's the problem?

Misuse should be banned definitely but a blanket ban on the basis of welfare seems a bit OTT surely?!
 
Pongwiffy said:
Blimey, I guess this makes me a horse abuser then!

I use them because my horse's barrel shape combined with my height mean only about 3 inches of my leg below the knee actually make contact with his sides. This isn't a problem for jumping or basic schooling especially as horse is forward but for more complicated flatwork that involves more than just going forwards I need to be able to give a more refined combination of leg aids without drawing my leg up and back and raising my heel which completely disrupts my position and spurs allow me to do this.

Horse has never been injured by their use, has never even received a rub mark and he doesn't show any sign of distress at their use (tail swishing, kicking out, misbehaviour etc) so what's the problem?

Misuse should be banned definitely but a blanket ban on the basis of welfare seems a bit OTT surely?!
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I agree with this. I use them for refinement of aid, not as punishment. Far better to have clear aid with spur than constant nagging with leg. When my daughter was in the pony club they couldn't use spurs unless first approved by the DC.
 
Pongwiffy said:
Blimey, I guess this makes me a horse abuser then!

I use them because my horse's barrel shape combined with my height mean only about 3 inches of my leg below the knee actually make contact with his sides. This isn't a problem for jumping or basic schooling especially as horse is forward but for more complicated flatwork that involves more than just going forwards I need to be able to give a more refined combination of leg aids without drawing my leg up and back and raising my heel which completely disrupts my position and spurs allow me to do this.
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Same here. I've never marked a horse with a spur but I'm small and short. Though I'm pretty sure my horse appreciates being ridden by a small light person with a spur that barely makes contact!
 
Spurs I think can be a great aid in experienced hands or this case feet. I've used them to sharpen horses up to the leg but also on horse's slightly dead to leg. I find them a handy thing to have in the tack room. I'm very concussions of not rubbing on the horse using them and I actually more concussions of my leg position when using them. I have seen a horse cut from rubber spurs before so they can damage in the wrong hands.

However like anything in the wrong hands they can be dangerous. but used correctly they can be a great artificial aid
 
I can't agree.

Spurs are totally unnecessary in my opinion.

I believe the rules that spurs are a mandatory requirement for example at the top levels of dressage a complete nonsense. The rules should be changed this is 2014 not the late Middle Ages. The opposite should be in place. Spurs should not be tolerated at all.

I cant agree "in the right hands etc" they simply don't belong anywhere near a horse.

I've never watched a dressage competition at the highest international level where I haven't seen spurs routinely abused. This doesn't mean bleeding sides or marks and gauges necessarily. Insidious, continuous use (contact) as an aid is abuse. Same in show jumping at international level. These are apparently "the right hands" ?

In the realms of the amateur rider this sanctioned abuse is widely copied but it honestly doesn't make any difference who is using them or what contrived reasons they have for using them. Their use is abuse.

A properly schooled, properly fed and fit horse should not need "artificial" aids of any kind. Fine tuning high energy feed for the job at hand and keeping a horse fit is the way, no short cuts at the horses expense.

If the horse or even the rider is not up to the job abusing the horse wont help. Understanding the horses character and working with not against it might be more ideal. Truly phlegmatic horses shouldn't be asked to do anything they aren't up for doing. Nor should riders be involved in an activity on a horse if they can't cope with a job that requires high energy.

As far as mentioned here having extremely short legs or being extremely light as a rider are not a reason to use spurs. An educated well schooled rider on a well schooled horse should have no problems with the rider using only seat and hand aids if need be. They should ride horses with more blood and feed accordingly, or accept their limitations.

Horses will move away from a whip and this is useful in training some youngsters, but it should never be used other than a light tap or gesture on or just behind the leg. Horses don't move away from spurs they cant see them to start with its only contact that will force the horse to move forward. It's also not at all constructive to use spurs instead of a whip as described above either on any horse to teach it to move away from the leg if it doesn't already by instinct.

I can't think of a single good use for spurs, only reasons why they should be banned outright.
 
I have three sorts of spurs (all blunt) & use them to put fine pressure -equivalent to a poke with a finger - at specific points for specific purposes. They allow me to not move my leg but just my ankle which is helpful when one of my ankles xray resembles crazy paving.
Is this abuse- no. Would trying to kick on the previously dead to the leg ex riding school horse I sometimes ride so he takes notice be better than a poke with a ball? It would be painful to me and what would be the benefit to him? Spurs are a tool. They are meant to be used by people with sufficient experience to lighten aids.
Shock horror - I also carry a whip. Why? because it is an extension of my arm & it is used more to widen our space on the road & to close gates than on the horse but it is there to bring in the quarters if needed.

Should hammers be banned?
 
Koen said:
I can't agree.

Spurs are totally unnecessary in my opinion.

I believe the rules that spurs are a mandatory requirement for example at the top levels of dressage a complete nonsense. The rules should be changed this is 2014 not the late Middle Ages. The opposite should be in place. Spurs should not be tolerated at all.

I cant agree "in the right hands etc" they simply don't belong anywhere near a horse.

I've never watched a dressage competition at the highest international level where I haven't seen spurs routinely abused. This doesn't mean bleeding sides or marks and gauges necessarily. Insidious, continuous use (contact) as an aid is abuse. Same in show jumping at international level. These are apparently "the right hands" ?

In the realms of the amateur rider this sanctioned abuse is widely copied but it honestly doesn't make any difference who is using them or what contrived reasons they have for using them. Their use is abuse.

A properly schooled, properly fed and fit horse should not need "artificial" aids of any kind. Fine tuning high energy feed for the job at hand and keeping a horse fit is the way, no short cuts at the horses expense.

If the horse or even the rider is not up to the job abusing the horse wont help. Understanding the horses character and working with not against it might be more ideal. Truly phlegmatic horses shouldn't be asked to do anything they aren't up for doing. Nor should riders be involved in an activity on a horse if they can't cope with a job that requires high energy.

As far as mentioned here having extremely short legs or being extremely light as a rider are not a reason to use spurs. An educated well schooled rider on a well schooled horse should have no problems with the rider using only seat and hand aids if need be. They should ride horses with more blood and feed accordingly, or accept their limitations.

Horses will move away from a whip and this is useful in training some youngsters, but it should never be used other than a light tap or gesture on or just behind the leg. Horses don't move away from spurs they cant see them to start with its only contact that will force the horse to move forward. It's also not at all constructive to use spurs instead of a whip as described above either on any horse to teach it to move away from the leg if it doesn't already by instinct.

I can't think of a single good use for spurs, only reasons why they should be banned outright.
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Nonsense. From start to finish.
 
Koen said:
I can't agree.

Spurs are totally unnecessary in my opinion.

I believe the rules that spurs are a mandatory requirement for example at the top levels of dressage a complete nonsense. The rules should be changed this is 2014 not the late Middle Ages. The opposite should be in place. Spurs should not be tolerated at all.

I cant agree "in the right hands etc" they simply don't belong anywhere near a horse.

I've never watched a dressage competition at the highest international level where I haven't seen spurs routinely abused. This doesn't mean bleeding sides or marks and gauges necessarily. Insidious, continuous use (contact) as an aid is abuse. Same in show jumping at international level. These are apparently "the right hands" ?

In the realms of the amateur rider this sanctioned abuse is widely copied but it honestly doesn't make any difference who is using them or what contrived reasons they have for using them. Their use is abuse.

A properly schooled, properly fed and fit horse should not need "artificial" aids of any kind. Fine tuning high energy feed for the job at hand and keeping a horse fit is the way, no short cuts at the horses expense.

If the horse or even the rider is not up to the job abusing the horse wont help. Understanding the horses character and working with not against it might be more ideal. Truly phlegmatic horses shouldn't be asked to do anything they aren't up for doing. Nor should riders be involved in an activity on a horse if they can't cope with a job that requires high energy.

As far as mentioned here having extremely short legs or being extremely light as a rider are not a reason to use spurs. An educated well schooled rider on a well schooled horse should have no problems with the rider using only seat and hand aids if need be. They should ride horses with more blood and feed accordingly, or accept their limitations.

Horses will move away from a whip and this is useful in training some youngsters, but it should never be used other than a light tap or gesture on or just behind the leg. Horses don't move away from spurs they cant see them to start with its only contact that will force the horse to move forward. It's also not at all constructive to use spurs instead of a whip as described above either on any horse to teach it to move away from the leg if it doesn't already by instinct.

I can't think of a single good use for spurs, only reasons why they should be banned outright.
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I'd make a pretty accurate educated guess that not only are you probably not a rider at all, or if you are, you are a very novice level one, but that you have very limited knowledge of equine management and horsemanship, gleaned mainly from the internet and animal welfare sites.
 
Koen said:
As far as mentioned here having extremely short legs or being extremely light as a rider are not a reason to use spurs.
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My legs are long, not short - as I said, the only way I can make contact with my horse's sides with my lower leg would be by putting in a joint in my shin or by shifting my leg up and back and raising my heel which, apart from looking ugly means I am applying the leg near his flank - which is incorrect.
Koen said:
An educated well schooled rider on a well schooled horse should have no problems with the rider using only seat and hand aids if need be. They should ride horses with more blood and feed accordingly, or accept their limitations.
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Horses are not born well schooled - once they understand what you are asking then a good part of that training is about refining the aids IMO. You teach a young horse to turn by opening the rein but later on you can change direction by just twisting your waist - an aid that subtle wouldn't work initially, it takes training. When teaching walk to canter to my horse I needed lots of leg and had to really exaggerate putting my outside leg back to get the transition - now I can get walk to canter with a half halt and a slight shift of weight - but I couldn't have done that initially because aids that subtle wouldn't have meant anything to my horse, it takes training. The horse understands perfectly that a squeeze with my calf means go forward and he is a forward horse but when I am trying to teach him lateral work I need to make it clear to him that in addition to going forward I also need him to move over sideways. I need to support him with my inside leg and whilst doing all of this this I may also need to ask him for a bit more energy from a particular hind leg... If my horse was bigger or I was shorter I would be able to use the inside of my foot and my heel in addition to my calf to help him differentiate more clearly between my aids - but as I can't reach his sides I use spurs. My personal goal is to get to the point where I can perform all of our work without spurs because he will be so comfortable in what I am asking him to do and so finely tuned in to the combination of rein, seat and leg he won't need the more obvious aids he still requires at the moment - but until then I use spurs to help me communicate as clearly as possible without having to wave my legs around or clamp them on him because a sensitive, confused horse is a stressed and unhappy horse in my experience.
Koen said:
Horses don't move away from spurs they cant see them to start with its only contact that will force the horse to move forward.
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WHy a horse needs to see something in order to learn to respond to it? Horses are always taught to respond by moving away from pressure and once they know the required response they will usually respond to less pressure than you initially required. A source of pressure might be a hand on its neck asking it to move over, a bit, a hand tapping a fetlock asking it to raise its hoof, a head collar, a rider's leg, not just whips and spurs. All of these could be performed or used abusively with excessive force but that doesn't make contact itself inherently abusive.
Koen said:
Insidious, continuous use (contact) as an aid is abuse.
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Not necessarily but it's definitely good way to pee your horse off or make the aid ineffective because it would cease to mean anything to the horse. Personally I am confident as a rider that whatever other faults I may have, keeping my spurs in constant contact with my horse's sides is not one of them. As a lowly amateur I am also pretty sure I can't be the only rider in the world who has control of their lower leg.
 
To be fair, I jump only 1 out of my 3 in spurs. And it is the most forward going of the three with the most blood. As an owner-rider, I can fine tune what my horse responds best to. Some horses like the reassurance of a spur when jumping. This is the horse I like to invite other people to ride, as he is very large and I'm very small, and there have been quite a few who thought his very forward going style was because I was too small for him, or because I wore spurs and jazzed him up. Since he is 17 and no-one can change his way of going, this is often quite an interesting exercise, and has demonstrated the old adage quite literally, pride comes before a fall. He's very phlegmatic if you do things his way and one of the things he likes is a feeling of certainty from the rider, which is aided by a rubber ball spur to be used if necessary for slightly greater pressure from a leg already halfway up his side! Saying that, he wins a lot and I quite enjoy his quirkiness.

I note that "Koen" doesn't distinguish between different types of spurs, or mention leg position.
 
Koen said:
Horses will move away from a whip and this is useful in training some youngsters, but it should never be used other than a light tap or gesture on or just behind the leg. Horses don't move away from spurs they cant see them to start with its only contact that will force the horse to move forward. It's also not at all constructive to use spurs instead of a whip as described above either on any horse to teach it to move away from the leg if it doesn't already by instinct.

I can't think of a single good use for spurs, only reasons why they should be banned outright.
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I don't understand your point. You say spurs are a big no no but whips are ok. Surely if the horse is well schooled, which comes with time and training, then they would not need a whip either?
 
Yes for spurs, having come up through the pony club to ride with spurs you must get your membership card signed by the DC of your club before riding with them. This then encourages instruction on the correct use of spurs, which results in riders knowledgeable and good enough to know when and when not to use them. I use traditional spurs, the ones most commonly seen. The way they are attached to my boots means that in order to use them i need to turn my toe outwards, therefore i can actually still kick with them on without them actually touching the horse if i wished but that is not the point of them.

I wear them when riding over fences particularly on a horse that would easily lose confidence but gains confidence from good aids and encouragement from the leg. My one pony is use them on to help encourage her to jump with confidence and this is useful if we have had a bad fence or a slip. I do not kick or jab with them it just adds to the leg pressure. I would much rather use these which back up an already accepted aid by the horse than use a whip down the shoulder before a fence as i see so many others do and distract the horse often resulting in either a early take off and bad jump instead of continued encouragement to the fence.
 
I use spurs in dressage competitions and lessons as my horse can sometimes become lazy, they are only very short blunt ones and a quick occasional use of a spur is far more beneficial than constantly nagging with the leg. I don't like to see the more severe type of spur which some people use. As others have said there are far more cruel practices which should be addressed.
 
Spurs, whips, curb bits, running reins all have a place and are all as cruel or kind as the hand that operates them.

I have a pair of swan necked rowelled spurs hanging in my tack room, they last saw the light of day many years ago when they persuaded a nappy horse that life was far better in a forward gear. He went on to be a polite and obliging citizen with no need for spurs in the future.
 
As spurs are not allowed in my sport (Endurance) then why would I need to wear them in training.

When I use to hunt a lot Spurs were part of the correct dress so for that reason and that reason only did I ever wear them.

The problem is that children etc see their idols wearing them and they think that they should wear them too.

No need to wear / use them if you train your horse correctly
 
paulineh said:
As spurs are not allowed in my sport (Endurance) then why would I need to wear them in training.

When I use to hunt a lot Spurs were part of the correct dress so for that reason and that reason only did I ever wear them.

The problem is that children etc see their idols wearing them and they think that they should wear them too.

No need to wear / use them if you train your horse correctly
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I have to admit to knowing nothing about endurance riding. That is highly commendable that spurs are not part of the uniform.

Spurs are it's very true part of "the uniform", this way of thinking prevails but like many traditions it has no place in this day and age.

'To be fair' :o a lot of riders have been brought up thinking spurs are fine, everyone used/uses them......time for a rethink.

I still haven't heard a single good reason for their use here.

Yes it's a tool so is the rack. Its a tool that should be binned and banned.

No spurs are safe.

A simple understanding that a horse is not a machine will suffice. It has ribs, iron or anything hard on bone is painful.

All these dead desensitised horses...... what a revelation it must be to them to still know they can feel pain?

I have a feeling, well I know for a certainty there are an awful lot of horses being asked to do a job they are not cut out to be doing and some being ridden that just shouldn't be. A horse should never be forced. Rethink your ambitions.

If a well schooled horse is not responding to feeding is completely dead to the leg it shouldn't be ridden, there are obviously underlying problems that make it not suitable for riding. Horses aren't born to be ridden, that is to say the fact that it's a horse is not a guarantee it should be ridden.
 
Piglet said:
I use spurs in dressage competitions and lessons as my horse can sometimes become lazy, they are only very short blunt ones and a quick occasional use of a spur is far more beneficial than constantly nagging with the leg. I don't like to see the more severe type of spur which some people use. As others have said there are far more cruel practices which should be addressed.
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Try feeding it straight oats and going for it? Even better race horse mix.

You might have to lunge him/her for ten minutes before you get on. :D
 
LaMooch said:
I don't understand your point. You say spurs are a big no no but whips are ok. Surely if the horse is well schooled, which comes with time and training, then they would not need a whip either?
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Correct. It's a crutch for many riders.

How many times do you se a horse get a wallop because it refuses a fence, or a jab with the spurs? More often than not it doesnt help at all and they still end up in a heap.

What horse endure.....
 
AdorableAlice said:
Spurs, whips, curb bits, running reins all have a place and are all as cruel or kind as the hand that operates them.

I have a pair of swan necked rowelled spurs hanging in my tack room, they last saw the light of day many years ago when they persuaded a nappy horse that life was far better in a forward gear. He went on to be a polite and obliging citizen with no need for spurs in the future.
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BTW I also think the double bridal should not be madatory in Dressage at any level.

Lets face it a horse not able to do exactly the same in a simple snaffle with a cavesson shouldn't be there.
 
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