SSF Romeo or Dual stallions

[dominobrown]

By Negro, anyone know much about this stallion? I have met him a few years ago in person and seemed like a friendly chap.
I am looking for something that is compact and uphill for an eventing bred mare.
I do like him but I am afraid of chestnuts (kidding), mare is dark bay out of bay parents, could I get a chestnut? (half joking here though colour experts feel free to comment!)

 

[TheMule]

Why would you use him on an eventing bred mare? He’s not going to add much to the party for eventing as zero jumping lines
He has achieved nothing in his life.
Perfectly possible to get a chestnut- 50:50 if the mare carries the ginger gene, which you’d only know if you tested her

 

[dominobrown]

Why would you use him on an eventing bred mare? He’s not going to add much to the party for eventing as zero jumping lines
He has achieved nothing in his life.
Perfectly possible to get a chestnut- 50:50 if the mare carries the ginger gene, which you’d only know if you tested her

Have plenty of jump, I want more uphill, compact and the mare moves well but not massively “powerful“. She has a lot of thoroughbred and a bit of Arab blood so wanting a tad more bone ideally, and around 16hh so nothing small. Used Future Hepsilon last time but looking for chilled not frozen.
Suggestions welcome though..

 

[LEC]

Well you look at the hundreds of proven dressage stallions in the uk and you could use one of those or you could use one who has done a novice or two and nothing else. If you want mediocre to crap then the UK is swarming with them and you have literally hundreds to choose from with chilled as an option.

Tbh my least favourite dual stallion Timolin would be an option as plenty of stock on the ground, Legrande moved well enough and has some talented stock on the ground and you would also get a fancy colour. We have a bellisimmo M at home out of the same mare as my eventers and he is a lovely chap and so average because he is a lovely chap. He should be eventing but his owner thinks he is a £45k dr horse. He isn’t. But his owner is an idiot.

Tbh most sjers add uphill now. They don’t look quite like a German shepherd with chronic hip issues like the dressage horses do but they add plenty if you choose the right one. It depends what you want to breed. After all Monkeying Around is dressage bred and I don’t think I would want that as my end result!!

 

[dominobrown]

Well you look at the hundreds of proven dressage stallions in the uk and you could use one of those or you could use one who has done a novice or two and nothing else. If you want mediocre to crap then the UK is swarming with them and you have literally hundreds to choose from with chilled as an option.

Tbh my least favourite dual stallion Timolin would be an option as plenty of stock on the ground, Legrande moved well enough and has some talented stock on the ground and you would also get a fancy colour. We have a bellisimmo M at home out of the same mare as my eventers and he is a lovely chap and so average because he is a lovely chap. He should be eventing but his owner thinks he is a £45k dr horse. He isn’t. But his owner is an idiot.

Tbh most sjers add uphill now. They don’t look quite like a German shepherd with chronic hip issues like the dressage horses do but they add plenty if you choose the right one. It depends what you want to breed. After all Monkeying Around is dressage bred and I don’t think I would want that as my end result!!

Thanks, will look in to some of those. I think some of the full on dressage types look weak behind. Show jumper wise, it must move, not just the knees and not be long, too leggy and to clumpy/ drafty if you know what I mean?
I did breed a dressage more to my pure TB and got a lovely horse that actually has gone showing but had loads of jump (especially out of fields), so kind of looking to recreate that. Nothing with a mental temperament as to be honest most horses are not going to professional homes. Heard of a few dressage lines being a bit mental, like Jazz etc? Obviously you will get quiet ones.

So mare is 16hh ish, very mixed breeding though comes from a successful eventing family, though her sire did more showing. She has correct limbs and movement, pretty head. Ideally be tad shorter in the back (though she isn't bad for a mare) and slightly more bone. she bred a nice colt to Future Hepslion but he is a little chunk! Not like his mum at all.

 

[ihatework]

What are you trying to breed for?
As in - preferred discipline, and to keep or to sell? If to sell are you trying to cover costs/make profit?

What are the mare bloodlines and what has she done?

That will influence my response

 

[Roxylola]

I've got a grown up Legrande baby - he's a lovely nature, moves well, powerful jump without being ridiculous, got bone without being super chunky, and is pretty compact.
And he's got the prettiest head imaginable.
He can be a bit sensitive but not ridiculous at all - hacks up the main road from the farm with double decker buses etc

 

[LEC]

Thanks, will look in to some of those. I think some of the full on dressage types look weak behind. Show jumper wise, it must move, not just the knees and not be long, too leggy and to clumpy/ drafty if you know what I mean?
I did breed a dressage more to my pure TB and got a lovely horse that actually has gone showing but had loads of jump (especially out of fields), so kind of looking to recreate that. Nothing with a mental temperament as to be honest most horses are not going to professional homes. Heard of a few dressage lines being a bit mental, like Jazz etc? Obviously you will get quiet ones.

So mare is 16hh ish, very mixed breeding though comes from a successful eventing family, though her sire did more showing. She has correct limbs and movement, pretty head. Ideally be tad shorter in the back (though she isn't bad for a mare) and slightly more bone. she bred a nice colt to Future Hepslion but he is a little chunk! Not like his mum at all.

It’s tricky as my foal is ENORMOUS. Her mother is 16.1 95% TB and I used a 16.2hh stallion! She has completely thrown back to some lines which are much bigger. Luckily not a problem for me as I like tall horses but she will still be bigger than I would have liked. If your future Hepsilon is a chunk with the high dose of blood from AA and TB then you perhaps need more blood than you think. Finding blood which will add the right attributes will be hard. Stallions AI is a good place to start looking as plenty of choice of fresh/chilled and have a wide mix of dressage and jumping stallions. I think on the whole the sjers move well now and not many have a terrible trot.

 

[dominobrown]

Legrande looks nice, I don't like 'funny' colours as a rule but thanks for the suggestion.
On her Dam sire line is Gemsbok, so she has a bit of Irish draught in her so maybe its throwing back to that. Mares brother did very well in young horse classes and evented to 3*, dam evented 3* and great grandma won Badminton. Mares sire is more showing so that's where the Arab comes from (Kilvington Scoundrel ).

 

[photo_jo]

Legrande looks nice, I don't like 'funny' colours as a rule but thanks for the suggestion.
On her Dam sire line is Gemsbok, so she has a bit of Irish draught in her so maybe its throwing back to that. Mares brother did very well in young horse classes and evented to 3*, dam evented 3* and great grandma won Badminton. Mares sire is more showing so that's where the Arab comes from (Kilvington Scoundrel ).

Bambi left some decent horses didn't she!

 

[dominobrown]

Bambi left some decent horses didn't she!

Yep it was Bambi!

 

[ihatework]

Ok general thoughts in a slightly haphazard order.

On an event mare I would personally never consider using a dressage stallion unless the offspring were 100% for ‘me’ to keep. You run the real risk of breeding into no man’s land.

OK so you might improve the flash/movement but you have to consider you could easily kill the jump.

Now that doesn’t mean a dressage stallion couldn’t produce a jumper but for upper level/commercial horses they are generally the exception horses rather than the norm. As a young horse it wouldn’t be as commercial given it’s neither a pure jumper or a pure dressage. Becomes less of an issue at 4/5yo and actually may be commercial as an age class horse (the type to do well as flash, but ultimately less likely to go up the levels. The sort producers like as their bread and butter).

That said if commercial isn’t your brief and you just want something you like then that’s cool.

If you were set on dressage then I’d possibly suggest second generation Sandro hit. That line seems to enjoy jumping and are generally sweeter for it.

But in all honesty I’d go good moving SJ blood.

 

[dominobrown]

Ok general thoughts in a slightly haphazard order.

On an event mare I would personally never consider using a dressage stallion unless the offspring were 100% for ‘me’ to keep. You run the real risk of breeding into no man’s land.

OK so you might improve the flash/movement but you have to consider you could easily kill the jump.

Now that doesn’t mean a dressage stallion couldn’t produce a jumper but for upper level/commercial horses they are generally the exception horses rather than the norm. As a young horse it wouldn’t be as commercial given it’s neither a pure jumper or a pure dressage. Becomes less of an issue at 4/5yo and actually may be commercial as an age class horse (the type to do well as flash, but ultimately less likely to go up the levels. The sort producers like as their bread and butter).

That said if commercial isn’t your brief and you just want something you like then that’s cool.

If you were set on dressage then I’d possibly suggest second generation Sandro hit. That line seems to enjoy jumping and are generally sweeter for it.

But in all honesty I’d go good moving SJ blood.

Thank you. Suggestions welcome.
Wasn't Sandro Hit a failed jumper?
I think often they through back a few generations, which is interesting as I would say the mare is light boned with an 'Arab' head, or at least you can tell she is part bred however her foal to Future Hepslikon which is AA, TB is a lot chunkier than her. I know her breeder and they picked a lighter stallion for her dam as they are very much old Irish lines , with plenty of ID in them so wonder if her foals will actually through back to that?
Been at the vets today to get swabs etc done, 10/14 days to pick!

 

[ihatework]

What are you wanting to produce - discipline/level and are you thinking resale and if so pre- or post backing

Does it have to be UK or will you import?

That influences any suggestions

 

[dominobrown]

What are you wanting to produce - discipline/level and are you thinking resale and if so pre- or post backing

Does it have to be UK or will you import?

That influences any suggestions

Ideally re-sale. Ideally UK, ideally eventing at 3* minimum.
i have said “ideally” as I think you should always breed a “saleable”, I might have always wanted a Shetland cross freisian, but if I die tomorrow some poor bugger has to find a home for it! But on the same vein, I might be desperate to sell and can’t so even if I plan to sell it needs to be a horse I like to look at everyday and spend stupid amounts of money on, so for me lots of pink skin/ cremellos really don’t float my boat. I know some people love “chrome” and pink faces, just not me, or spots. Nothing over 17hh ideally or under 15.2hh. Mare is 16hh.
I am also wanting to use chilled so importing is trickier.
I do like to do a bit of everything, and for someone who hates showing ends up doing quite a bit of that so nothing ugly!
limb conformation is important for me, a lame horse is more useless than any other type of horse.
So stallion must ideally… add a little height to mare, or at least not take away. Be uphill, as more is tad downhill, be compact as mare is a tad long. Mare moves well, with good limb conformation though her movement isn’t breath taking.
Also from breeding one foal from her that came out chunkier than expected I am not massively bothered if it’s quite a blood horse as I think she is throwing back to previous generations. (Mare definitely has a tiny look of Arab about her in head etc).

 

[TheMule]

Amiro Z if you want a bit more height, he's getting some really good ones so would be commercial - https://www.elitestallions.co.uk/stallion/Amiro Z