Stable Aggression

[Jay1430]

does anyone else have this problem, my gelding is in unbelievable sweet outside the stable, ridden is perfect and will give u love all day long. however if hes in the stable you cannot go near him without him biting, lundging, kicking etc. he’s getting too dangerous but i cannot tell him off as he bites then immediately turns and runs away and chasing him will just make it worse. i’m really stuck and it’s making me consider selling him. literally any advice will be so appreciated

 

[SEL]

Has he always been like this? Have you tried a different stable?

Some horses are very protective of their space (one of mine has a sign on her door to warn people) but sometimes it can be a situational issue - stable, neighbours etc

 

[Jay1430]

Has he always been like this? Have you tried a different stable?

Some horses are very protective of their space (one of mine has a sign on her door to warn people) but sometimes it can be a situational issue - stable, neighbours etc

he wasn’t like that for the first 3 or 4 months then it started and has just got worse and worse over the past year. he’s like that in every stable, he’s in a small barn of 4, 2 infront of him, 1 beside him.

 

[Birker2020]

I'm probably going to get a lot of stick for this but how about a water pistol. Fire it at his neck or body when he attacks you, not his face. I would not tolerate having a horse that tried to kick or bite me or others, no way.
This is not on and you cannot allow this to continue. You are doing both you and him a diss service by allowing this behaviour to escalate and you need to set boundaries.

I know you are looking for help so I don't mean to sound rude, it was the same with me many years ago when I bought a five year old ISH. He was a bolshy horse and used to push me against the side of the stable or the fence when tied up. It was a nightmare.

One day the vet came to give him his flu and tet. He asked me how I was getting on with him as he was the same vet that had vetted him. I told him what he was doing and he said that no amount of pushing or shoving will make any difference. He said to get a bic biro and with the blunt end shove it in his ribs when he next squashed me. I did and he jumped a couple of foot in the air. He did it another twice and that was that. Never did it again. Sometimes when your life is at risk you have to be cruel to be kind. A kick to the head could kill you.

I don't care if the horse was the sweetest horse in the world outside the stable, he should be the same inside and doesn't respect you.

 

[MidChristmasCrisis]

So many factors might be in play he may always have had a notion to protect his stable which only emerged when he settled in and realised it was his space, it could be something has happened in his stable which makes him protective of himself, he may be protecting his resources (hay). I have a mare now who is just grumpy and has a bubble round her stable and pulls faces and threatens to bite but doesn’t…in the stable she tolerates me but I can muck out round her and she doesn’t threaten or attack. I have one mare who used her feet willingly to repel boarders…I just used to direct a broom at her bum and once her headcollar was on she was fine.
Maybe he s got pain somewhere and doesn’t want to be ridden but you report he s fine outside his stable…it’s so difficult to advise without full knowledge/experience of the behaviour.

 

[Peglo]

Do you need to go in the stable with him or is it even if you’re outside his door?
If he was mine I would probably do everything I need to with him outside his stable and then put him in and leave him to his space.
I would rather avoid the aggression starting than have the fight with him but I would send him away from me if he lunged at me.

 

[LEC]

Steve Young deals with a fair few of these and it’s fairly interesting how he solves it. It’s all on YT. Might give you some ideas. Essentially it’s a defensive behaviour in their own space. You can solve it but will need to be disciplined about it.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I used to have a mare who had been kept short of food, while being at the bottom of the herd. She was very protective of any food that she had, including hay and bucket feed. She wasnt keen on being rugged or tacked up either.
I got her over it by making sure that she had plenty of hay, putting that and her bucket feed in the stable before bringing her in and being able to stand in the walkway behind her stable, close to her hay but where she couldn't reach me. I was lucky in the set-up at the livery yard.

Then in the summer I fed her out of a bucket held over the wall. It took about a year for her to be comfortable with having someone in the stable with her.

The key was making sure that she was never hungry, or afraid that she wouldn't have enough to eat.

Does your horse have ad-lib forage?

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Lottie was territorial. I allowed her to run away and I certainly would not 'chase'. But I slowly built up her tolerance by giving her control over pressure. If she looked at me, I'd take a step back. If she stayed in the corner I'd stand my ground. So she learned that focusing on me was the better answer than running and hiding from me. And slowly, slowly we expanded her tolerance till we got to the point I can do anything with her in the stable. I generally leave her alone most of the time, but I think it is important that a horse is safe to handle inside their stable. She now lets me do anything, including rugging while eating. But it took a long time to get there. A horse needs to let humans into their stable in my view. Just managing it via avoidance is not a solution I'd go for.

I ignored gestures but I absolutey would not allow her to attack. If the situation is escalating you are unintentionally reinforcing it. Your horse has learned how to get you to back off (release pressure) in ALL the wrong ways. Biting, kicking, lunging at you. It is highly likely that this now learned behaviour will gradually spread to other times where your horse wants you to back off - leading in from the field, catching when the grass is nice etc. I'd personally get professiona help. I think it's liekly to be a fairly easy fix but you need good timing and it may be unsafe for a non expert to try.

 

[Arzada]

What height is your horse? What size is the stable? How much turnout does your horse have? Is he kept on individual turnout?

Follow Pearlsasinger's advice

 

[Peglo]

My advice for leaving him alone is because the behaviour is escalating. Sorry I should’ve been more clear, I was rushing as needed to leave for work.
What you’re doing is making things worse so I would stop working with him in the stable until you get something figured out.


I agree Steve Young has some interesting videos on YouTube you could watch.

 

[planete]

A mare I worked with charged me teeth bared as I was entering her stable. My reflex action was to throw the headcollar I was holding at her head which thankfully stopped her mid stride. I have no idea if it was the right thing to do but I had no time to do anything else to protect myself. I must say I never had any problems with her after that. On the other hand an ex racer who was for ever trying to bite and kick in the stable became totally safe for me to be around after she bit me and I did not react in any way. I think the first one was a strong character with no boundaries and the second one was expecting any stable lad in her space to be an unpleasant individual. Hard to figure out though.

 

[Jay1430]

What height is your horse? What size is the stable? How much turnout does your horse have? Is he kept on individual turnout?

Follow Pearlsasinger's advice

16hh, my stable is very large not sure of exact measurements (previous used for 2 horses who had to be in the same stable due to attachment problems) he has 12 hour turn out during winter & 24h turn out in summer. he’s turned out with other horses who he gets on with fab.

 

[Bobthecob15]

We had this exact experience with a mare at our yard. I'm sorry to say she was investigated and they found gut ulcers. She was successfully treated and back to her usual self in no time.

Have you considered this?

 

[dorsetladette]

angry horse

hey does anyone have an suggestions for a horse who just seems all round angry? abit of context, when i bought him he was fine however over the past few months he’s just gotten abit dangerous on the ground, pinning ears anytime anyone comes near, trying to kick me and other horses, biting...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

Did you get anywhere with any of the suggestion on your previous thread OP?

 

[Birker2020]

angry horse

hey does anyone have an suggestions for a horse who just seems all round angry? abit of context, when i bought him he was fine however over the past few months he’s just gotten abit dangerous on the ground, pinning ears anytime anyone comes near, trying to kick me and other horses, biting...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

Did you get anywhere with any of the suggestion on your previous thread OP?

Puts a different light on it. I thought the OP said he was unbelievably sweet outside the stable, but he can't be if he's kicking other horses. Or is that through the stable walls maybe? I'm super confused.

 

[Jay1430]

Puts a different light on it. I thought the OP said he was unbelievably sweet outside the stable, but he can't be if he's kicking other horses. Or is that through the stable walls maybe? I'm super confused

i knew i had posted this before but couldn’t find it so reposted, yes through the stable walls even turning his bum to try kick out the door when his stable bar is across. only in the stable is he like this.

 

[Arzada]

i knew i had posted this before but couldn’t find it so reposted, yes through the stable walls even turning his bum to try kick out the door when his stable bar is across. only in the stable is he like this.

Click on your name at the top of the screen on the right, Your Account box appears, click on the number to the right of the word 'Messages' (13 at the moment) and all your messages show.

 

[Amymay Again]

i knew i had posted this before but couldn’t find it so reposted, yes through the stable walls even turning his bum to try kick out the door when his stable bar is across. only in the stable is he like this.

Well firstly, if he's in the stable don't use a bar. Close the actual door. Stable aggression isn't all that unusual in relation to neighbours. I had a mare like that which could make life difficult and dangerous for anyone in the stable with her.

Are there bars separating the stables or solid walls?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Why people are a bit confused about whether he shows this behaviour just in the stable or not is that in your earlier thread from a few weeks ago you said:-

“when i bought him he was fine however over the past few months he’s just gotten a bit dangerous on the ground, pinning ears anytime anyone comes near, trying to kick me and other horses, biting etc. however is foot perfect when ridden.”

 

[Jay1430]

Why people are a bit confused about whether he shows this behaviour just in the stable or not is that in your earlier thread from a few weeks ago you said:-

“when i bought him he was fine however over the past few months he’s just gotten a bit dangerous on the ground, pinning ears anytime anyone comes near, trying to kick me and other horses, biting etc. however is foot perfect when ridden.”

i understand why it’s gotten muddled, like i say he is perfect when ridden but when i’m on the ground (in the stable) he isn’t.

 

[Jay1430]

Well firstly, if he's in the stable don't use a bar. Close the actual door. Stable aggression isn't all that unusual in relation to neighbours. I had a mare like that which could make life difficult and dangerous for anyone in the stable with her.

Are there bars separating the stables or solid walls?

we do close the door now as it’s too dangerous for people walking by and solid walls.

 

[Amymay Again]

we do close the door now as it’s too dangerous for people walking by and solid walls.

Is it possible to stable him away from others?

 

[Jay1430]

Is it possible to stable him away from others?

we could try it however he is the same even if he is the only one in or do u mean people?

 

[Amymay Again]

we could try it however he is the same even if he is the only one in or do u mean people?

I meant a stable that is away from other horses.

 

[Jay1430]

I meant a stable that is away from other horses.

yes, we could try him away from the other horses however even if all the other horses are turned out he is the same.

 

[SEL]

Hmmm the last 2 I have known who got this bad both had wobblers.

Neither was detected from a routine vet exam. One was when the owner saw something on-line about neck impingement and insisted on an x-ray. The other was an animal communicator (I know, I know) who said they were getting vibes that his neck was an issue.

Both moved beautifully but in hindsight there were plenty of giveaways if you knew what you were looking for. Watching the first one getting up from lying down in the field was awful, but apparently he hadn't always been that bad - just vile in the stable.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Generally speaking horses' behaviours only change like this for a select few reasons:

1. pain: most common, I would get the vet out to do a lameness work up and get hands on and bloods run, for the sake of £150 (plus whatever bloods are) it's worth it, even for peace of mind. If you are convinced it's not ulcers (his bevahiour alone is enough indication to me that it may very well be) and you're short of funds you could do a bute trial for a couple weeks and see if the behaviour improves, but I wouldn't recommend this as if it is ulcers you'll make it worse.

2. environmental factors: turnout sounds okay, so have you changed feed? Feeding alfalfa? (which many are sensitive to) - I would give horse a handful of plain chaff and build back up after a week to see if there are any changes. Has anything on the yard changed? eg: a horse in/out the herd, loud goings on like building work to unsettle. Changed anything in your grooming kit that could make their skin/coat sensitive? Rug pressure points now it's cold creating a soreness somewhere?

3. they don't trust you as a leader/respect you and think it will be easier if they tell you to f-off - or they have done this a few times and have gotten away with it so it's learnt behaviour. If he is okay outside of the stable and is also similar to other horses, then I doubt this wil be the reason, so I would revert back to points 1&2, but if you have exhausted those then I would get someone to come out like Joe Midgley or similar, as it's such a skilled area to pinpoint that you probably wouldn't want to try and tackle it on your own, and if the horse is aggressive rather than just a bit bolshy, it sounds as though it could be dangerous if you get it wrong.

If it was centred around something specific like them wanting ownership of the stable I would have thought there would have been signs early on, same with feed, it wouldn't be so generalised.

Please for gods sake, don't stab it with a biro. If your horse has chosen fight over flight, it's response to increased pressure from you is likely to be to increase the response - by all means stand your ground if you can, but I really would caution you to be careful with any chasing or telling off until you have someone experienced come out and put eyes on the horse. The horse is running from you because it has to the space to, if you remove that space by combatting it's aggression with agression, then it will have no choice but to out-escalate you, and that will be with teeth/hooves most likely.

 

[Birker2020]

Why people are a bit confused about whether he shows this behaviour just in the stable or not is that in your earlier thread from a few weeks ago you said:-

“when i bought him he was fine however over the past few months he’s just gotten a bit dangerous on the ground, pinning ears anytime anyone comes near, trying to kick me and other horses, biting etc. however is foot perfect when ridden.”

Yes, that's right TP.

If his behaviour is just related to the stable then he is dominant and guarding his space. Doesn't justify his behaviour btw and my horse would not be allowed to get away with it. But if he's like this outside then I would suggest it is a pain response or he is unhappy about his situation.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

i knew i had posted this before but couldn’t find it so reposted, yes through the stable walls even turning his bum to try kick out the door when his stable bar is across. only in the stable is he like this.

I think its the barn environment some horses really don't like being surrounded by horses.

We had one at work that would just kick the crap out of the walls and go mental when they walked past or came back in.