Stable Block - couple of questions

[Lacuna]

Finally putting together our planning application for a stable block. I have been thinking about a straight forward 3 box block with 12x12 stables and a larger concrete pad along the front (pad would be about 20x40 feet)

I've been asked by the builder whether i want to make the stables larger and I've been wondering whether to bother given as any occupants are likely to be under 14.2hh. Are there any advantages to larger boxes?

In another thought a friend was saying she wishes she had made the interior of her stables partitionable rather than with fixed walls. Would there be any benefit in having removable walls inside the block or would that just be more trouble than it is worth?

 

[MagicMelon]

Personally I chose bigger. I also have a bog standard 3 boxes in a line with an over-hang and I hardcored the whole area under the stables and made a big hardcore yard out the front which is where I tie up the horses / they have their round bale feeder etc. which has been brilliant for winter. My stables are each 18x18. 12x12 in my opinion are tiny, even for 14.2hhs. Yes I have bigger horses generally (up to 17.2hh) but Id still find 12x12 too small. I use one of my stables as a tack room and it give you loads of space. I didnt have removable walls, the only thing I regret is having the boarding full height in between the stables. Its great for my end tackroom, but between the other 2 stables I wish Id had the top half left open or metal grills put in so the horses could see each other when inside. I dont stable very often, I leave the doors open 24/7 and the horses come and go as they want but when I have put them in for the trimmer etc. they sometimes dont like being tied up inside as they suddenly cant see the other horse. I guess if you had movable walls it might be handy as you could make one stable bigger or open up into one big stable if you only had 1 coming on or on box rest etc.? To be honest, mine are big enough its never really been a thought for me.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I have a 12x 14 and a 12 x 20 for a 12.3 and a 13.3h. The larger can have partitions in, should I want another. I would always go bigger, partitions are useful, especially if you can let them have free-run in/out (I cannot sadly).

 

[Goldenstar]

I would go for bigger .

 

[Tiddlypom]

Go bigger, it keeps future options open.

With some rejigging of my L shaped layout to fit a confined site, I was able to get two 12' x 14' boxes and a 16' x12' in. Never regretted it over 12' x12's.

Old stables (since demolished) were 12' x 10'.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I'd go bigger as if in the future you wish to sell or rent out , having small stables really reduces the potential client base.

 

[paddy555]

Finally putting together our planning application for a stable block. I have been thinking about a straight forward 3 box block with 12x12 stables and a larger concrete pad along the front (pad would be about 20x40 feet)

I've been asked by the builder whether i want to make the stables larger and I've been wondering whether to bother given as any occupants are likely to be under 14.2hh. Are there any advantages to larger boxes?

In another thought a friend was saying she wishes she had made the interior of her stables partitionable rather than with fixed walls. Would there be any benefit in having removable walls inside the block or would that just be more trouble than it is worth?

I'm not sure of the benefits of removable walls however if you have them don't forget they have to be very strong and secure. They have to withstand a horse with full blown colic thrashing the sh1t out of them and not getting his foot through.

I think 12 x 12 is far too small.
I would try to be a lot more innovative. I would be more like Magic Melon's ideas. Larger stables, forget t he concrete pad and make a large hard core area at the front. Then partition it to the size of the stables so each horse can have both it's stable and it's share of the hard core yard. Instantly it has twice the space. Leave the stable doors open.

I would probably put a 4 ft strip of concrete along the back with a 2nd door to each stable. Then you can shut the horses out in their yards and you can service the stables with the wheelbarrow etc.

Do you need stables, would a barn with the horses living loose work? much nicer for them especially if the doors are open and they can go in and out as they wish.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

You can partition a building with slip rails or blocked off cattle gates. I know people might get uneasy with the thought of slip rails but they can be a good solution for buildings that don't have to be 12x12 stables all of the time and provided the occupants get on I'd not have any qualms about using them.

 

[Polos Mum]

In addition to above make sure your builder is thinking internal space not external dimensions
12 x 12 on the outside is tiny once thickness of blocks taken into consideration.

the cost of making bigger will be tiny (vs. the whole thing).

Benefits, less mess (trampling poo around), more air - breathing benefits, less chance of being cast, you can muck out around them more easily the list goes on.

One other thought have doors in the middle not the side then you have 2 front corners one of water one for hay and bed at the back.
If you have doors at the side you only have one front corner.

I also would not have full height walls, better air flow and nicer for them to see each other

Make sure your builder knows the strength needed. For block I think strongest is hollow blocks with rebar down the gaps then filled with concrete

I inherited block stables and when my delicate 14 hh rolls next to the wall the whole thing wobbles - it'll come down at some point i'm sure.

 

[Leandy]

12 x 12 seems rather small these days. I'd go at least 14 x 12 if I were you and maybe at least one of them rather bigger than that as more flexible use for foaling, small companions, storage etc.

 

[Lacuna]

Personally I chose bigger. I also have a bog standard 3 boxes in a line with an over-hang and I hardcored the whole area under the stables and made a big hardcore yard out the front which is where I tie up the horses / they have their round bale feeder etc. which has been brilliant for winter. My stables are each 18x18. 12x12 in my opinion are tiny, even for 14.2hhs. Yes I have bigger horses generally (up to 17.2hh) but Id still find 12x12 too small. I use one of my stables as a tack room and it give you loads of space. I didnt have removable walls, the only thing I regret is having the boarding full height in between the stables. Its great for my end tackroom, but between the other 2 stables I wish Id had the top half left open or metal grills put in so the horses could see each other when inside. I dont stable very often, I leave the doors open 24/7 and the horses come and go as they want but when I have put them in for the trimmer etc. they sometimes dont like being tied up inside as they suddenly cant see the other horse. I guess if you had movable walls it might be handy as you could make one stable bigger or open up into one big stable if you only had 1 coming on or on box rest etc.? To be honest, mine are big enough its never really been a thought for me.

This is really interesting. I had assumed a concrete pad would be necessary with a fixed stable block but have you found the hardcore to be fine? I like the idea of a hardcore yard as well

The main reasons for wanting stables is flexibility of accommodation to spare the land a bit over the winter. I've ended this year with an acre of complete bog which has made life a bit difficult. Where I want the stables has got several trees and now I am wondering if it would suffer having hardcore introduced round them?

 

[MotherOfChickens]

@Lacuna have you seen mud control mats or jelka mats? I have the latter and have made hay station areas with them. Both work well and you can put them down/take up and move them if you want to.

 

[Jellymoon]

Def go bigger and also with the wet winters we are getting, I’d look at designing it so you can let them free range on the yard, save your field and nicer for them, less mucking out.

 

[Lacuna]

@Lacuna have you seen mud control mats or jelka mats? I have the latter and have made hay station areas with them. Both work well and you can put them down/take up and move them if you want to.

I actually have a batch at the moment but you need quite a few for a turn out area!

 

[Esmae]

I would go bigger. Don't forget good storage. You can never have too much of that, with good access for hay deliveries etc.

 

[Illtellyoulater]

I went 12 by 14 too, despite only having ponies. I also had two stables separated by a grill, but the third one with a full partition so that if they didn’t settle with grill I had plan B and vice versa. They are on a concrete slab, but also like others have said, I made enclosed hard standing in front which is a god send if fields flood

 

[Illtellyoulater]

Ps, lots of trees, but the hardcore is permeable so they seem fine, they border the hardcore so behind them is verge, ditch etc

 

[Equi]

If you can afford to, make them as large as possible. More room for the horses and also if in the future you need to sell larger boxes are better for big horses and mares/foals so a nice selling point.

Also, larger they are the easier it is to split them for smaller ponies. My stables are 13/15 and split in two for my ponies so i can have 4 of them in 2 stables.

 

[Reacher]

Agree as big as you can manage.
I like the idea of partionable so you can use it as a field shelter (though wouldn’t work with my 2 as Retired Mare is antisocial.)

Another idea to throw in, I inherited 2 x 12 by 14’ stables. I had a bespoke gate built to split the yard in half (or it can be left open ) so each horse has its free range access to its own patio and stable. Life saver in winter.

 

[HashRouge]

I think my stables are probably 12 by 12 (not my land, they were already there) and I find them fine for a 14.2hh and a 15.1hh, though they aren't in very much. I have a half height partition between them which I absolutely love and would be my go to for any future stables. My two are best friends though, so they love being able to nose into each other's stables. I quite often come up and find they both have their head over the same door because my Welsh will stick his head over the partition and then out of the other horse's door!

 

[SilverLinings]

I always though having a half-height partition, or a grill partition seemed much nicer for the horses, until I got one of my current ones. He HATES being stabled without a solid wall between him and the horse next door, and becomes very stressed and angry, despite otherwise being the most laid back and good-natured horse. As he is a chronic fiddler (mouths everything) chucking a rug over the bars didn't work, so I eventually had to fix boards over the bars to completely block the view. If building stables now I would only have a 'window' between the boxes, to allow the horses to move to the other end of the stable if they wanted privacy (it would also be a smaller area to block up if needed). It would also allow feed to be placed where the other horse wasn't visible.

I agree with everyone about size though, I'd definitely go for stables as large as you can afford/fit in; horses didn't evolve to spend long periods of time standing still, so the more space they have to move around the better. One measure of high welfare for captive animals is the amount of agency they have in their environment, so having a large enough stable that you can put hay/haylage/feed in several different places allows them a degree of choice in, and therefore perceived control over, their environment.

 

[paddi22]

we are building a pretty identical thing to what you describe

we chatted to the builder about what area we could concrete. when you get the concrete poured you pay for the whole truck, so we based our footprint around that and then made the stables as big as we could. I made one box much bigger and kept the other 2 at 14 x 12. we also added on a tack room to one end, and then on the other end left an open-fronted part where I keep feed and hay. this part is the absolute handiest bit ever! we did half walls between the stables and that works very well. I agree with paddi55 that the partition part just made me nervous if a horse thrashed through it. I left a concrete part in front and then a pea gravel art to the site and fenced around it. it works really well as I take a lot of horses in for rehab or with injuries, and it means I don't have to lock them in boxes, they can potter a bit. I would 100% go for concrete over hardcore, it looks neater and it's easier to maintain. The pea gravel bit to the site looks neater than hardcore and well and is easier/more supportive for hooves.

we added a small sand turnout/lunge arena that leads off the pea gravel and that has really helped save the land during bad weather and it was fairly cheap to put in.

 

[PurBee]

This is really interesting. I had assumed a concrete pad would be necessary with a fixed stable block but have you found the hardcore to be fine? I like the idea of a hardcore yard as well

The main reasons for wanting stables is flexibility of accommodation to spare the land a bit over the winter. I've ended this year with an acre of complete bog which has made life a bit difficult. Where I want the stables has got several trees and now I am wondering if it would suffer having hardcore introduced round them?

I have a large hardcore area, which has compacted like concrete, so all water runs off. Initially it had some permeability, but with horses stomping around and tractors driving on it, within 18 months it compacted very dense.

With this is mind, if you have a tree(s) in the middle of the hardcore area and surround the base of the tree with hardcore, the tree will likely get much less water than its used to. Obviously some trees have a couple of deep anchor roots and can burrow for water pockets deeper down (only if there’s water there), but the majority of tree roots are splayed out from the base just under the surface of the ground.
If the tree has vastly reduced water access with hardcore surrounding it, it’ll eventually become brittle limbed, increasing risk of breakage in winds.

If you have trees within the hardcore area, either remove them, if young, or of theyre truly wanted to stay, you could put mud control mats around the base and fill with clean gravel, allowing rain water to still water the tree. How far you have the mud control mats filled with gravel from the base of trunk, depends on size of tree. As a general rule, the width of the crown of the tree is generally the width of the main root mat.
Trees drink a huge amount of water.

I’ve trees of varying sizes, some massive, lining the edge of my hardcore area, so half the tree root mat is covered in hardcore, whereas behind, there’s soil/bushes and a very large rainwater run-off ditch that the roots drink from.
In 8yrs ive had 1 small holly tree die, due to the horses de-barking it, so the tree couldnt transport water without bark, and dried up. All other trees are healthy, and growing and further back from the horses being able to chew the bark off!
(you can get trunk coverings to protect the trunk of trees around livestock to stop them chewing the bark and killing the tree)

This old pic shows one end of my hardcore area with trees lining one side. If the big tree had been in the middle i would have had to use mud control mats to at least 10metres from its trunk, filled with clean gravel so it could still get rain water.
Trees are great for natural shelter - my horses use the big tree to shelter under during the worst storms, than use their stabling they have access to!

 

[paddy555]

hardcore doesn't look as nice but it has a big advantage over concrete and that is freezing. Whilst I have some concrete my main yard is hardcore. That means if we have a frozen spell I can just shut them in but let one (for safety's sake only 1) out to wander for a couple of hours. It also means it is easy to move a horse from the stables to the field (which is frozen but some do go out) without worrying about them (or me) slipping on ice.
Any sort of sand, wood chip (not so good) gravel, pea gravel pens or even small lunge areas are worth their weight in gold in both wet weather to protect the fields or frozen weather to get the horses outside for a while.

Some horses like half walls in stables so they are totally together and can groom, some like bars and some like total privacy. Depends probably on if they are the bully or the bullied.
A 15ft stable wall would allow say 10 ft boarding so the horse feels safe and 5 ft of bars/open so they have company.

It was so easy in the olden days, 10 x 10 wooden stable, full stop and that is what the horse got, like it or not.

 

[ycbm]

Bigger. My experience is that horses will generally avoid lying in poop if they have the option.