Stable staff - Part timers and not a uddy clue!

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WishfulThinker

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On the back of the other post about full livery and them not being up to scratch. I am noticing that there does seem to be a general 'can't be arsedness' about folk working at yards - not all I must add ! At our yard a few of the liveries work some weekends so they have cheaper bills etc, but the common sense of some of these folk is amazing!

I have total respect for dedicated, hard working knowlegeable grooms - its the fwits that bug me!

Beau had a notice outside stable to leave his stable rug under his outdoor when it was cold - and this was repeatedly ignored. They once turned my friends horse out - a few months ago - rugless as they tried to put his rug on when he was having breakfast and he went for them (despite her warning all the staff!!) so they jsut left him. Another friends horse was put in wrong field and got injured so off till after new year. Horses go out in the wrong rugs. And what really peed me off was this morning Beau was given someone else's breakfast - despite his bucket sitting RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIS DOOR! I mean I do not know whos he had, or WHAT he was given !!
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But given that he was a speed deamon and a snorting and prancing about like a loon - worse than usual - I am guessing something heating! I am just thankful it was not his sharer riding him as she would have had trouble with him.

This happens repeatedly, but whats We dont get is that its liveries that are up almost EVERY day, so they know the horses. There have been 3 new horses in 5 months so nothing new for them to learn about. All the info and instructions are written down, rugs are layed out, but no, they still get it wrong!! I MEAN HOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I as a daft 13yr old girl used to be able to remember the FEEDS for 12 horses, which rugs were theres, their bits and tack grooming kits, and the fields they went in and the times they got exersised, And I could muck out my 8 of them before 11am - yet a fully grown horse owing adult cannot! And they are NEVER happy - never! The only time I saw one girl smile was when I fell over a log and landed ON my saddle (stupid log was brown and it was half dark and it was placed right where we all have to walk!) I mean why do it if you hate it soo much!
 
I did full livery at the first yard the guy would put Mae out with her stable rug on, then YO started buying oats to bulk the feed out, stables were never cleaned properly. I always asked for the haylage on the floor but was always put in the rack.

I then took over and did the liveries full time, i was too soft as i would lunge the horses if they asked, horses were fed at the same time everyday, each day i removed rugs gave them a quick groom and put rug(s) on again, would make sure i was at the yard when vet/farrier was about, was mucking out about 3 times a day, OH used to crack as i would go to the farm shop and buy bulk loads of carrots etc, would give the neddies it if the owner allowed it.

I kept a blackboard of feed etc, and the owners could leave me notes on it. Treated the horses like they were my own!

I dont think i would go back to full livery, i just dont trust anyone anymore with my lot.
 
I have a dreadful habit of repeating myself I have a dreadful habit of repeating myself I have a dreadful habit of repeating myself I have a dreadful habit of repeating myself,
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ITS BECAUSE PEOPLE DONT LISTEN, I fully sympathise, you explain over and over to a customer how to use their thermostatic valves on their radiators and they still phone up saying the radiator is cold, IT WILL BE, IT'S BLOODY 90 DEGREES C IN THE ROOM,
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you explain over and over there is no pilot light on the boiler it's electronic ignition, they still say, "I cant see a pilot light" WHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, NO HAIR LEFT
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I have worked at posh yards charging £250 a week for normal full livery with super posh facilities, and I would never trust them with a bargepole with looking after my horse.

Things like forgetting to give the horse any hay at night- so that they are standing in from what 2pm to 8.30 the next morning with nothing in their stables to eat.

Or a £15 'exercise session' would consist of literally a 3 min spin round the arena instead of the 45 min hack that the owner asked for.

I would rather pay more for DIY than for a livery service!
 
This is why we have a fairly large turn-over of staff- it's SO hard to find people who genuinely care about their charges and who work hard.
We've got one amazing full time staff member and she often does way more than her fair share to ensure everything is kept at a very high standard
 
I know where you are coming from on this one but i must saythat i have exellent staff. They are trained by me and when they come with their standards i then tell them about mine and what i expect... its a darn sight higher thats for sure.
It is true most cant take the disapline but i have a very low staff turn over and we all work well together. I do have a lovely yard and super all full livery clients but every horse on my yard is treated as my competiotion horses are. Also if we say we do a job we do it. I make the girls understand we are a team and there is only one 'queen' on my yard and thats ..... ME!!!!! Joking apart i try and take the time to explain the why's and where-fors of my 'asks' this seems to let them understand that there is a need for theses standards not me just being a cow!!!!
I will rarely lose the plot but do if i ever see or think the standards in care of anyone of the 22 horses on the yard is compromised. We are in a service industry, not only to the ownwer/client but most of all to the horse. I and my staff are proffesional at looking after our 'inmates'.
 
I am sorry to hear you have to put up with this. Have you tried leaving a white board outside your stable and stating on it exactly what you want for your horse; eg. what feed, rugs etc so that they can't possibly get it wrong. And if they still ignore this you should complain, complainb to the workers first but if they still don't listen tell the yard manager, it is their responsibility to employ good staff and if that isn't happening then you're not getting the service you pay for and should prehaps even consider leaving (depending on how bad it is). You want people to work at a yard because of their love of horses, who want to look after them well for the sake of it, not just for money.
 
This is one area that i think Denmark has got it right. Caring for horses here is a career... and its one with very long training. No education in it? You wont be working near horses. As a result, the head grooms and head riders are paid well. (Staring salary for the head riders here is the equivalent of 50k a year and ours also gets accommodation, car and free livery for 8 horses).

We have no young untrained people on the yard with the exception of those in full time education and even then they have to have completed 2 years first.

They treat horses as an extremely valuable commodity and the restrictions around working with them are mind blowing.
 
Partoow I think that you make SUCH valid points because I reckon that the reason why a lot of these yards are so untrustworthy with slack staff is because they have poor leadership and staff morale is generally low. Staff need to be led, they need to be told EXACTLY the standards that are expected of them and treated with respect and praise when they are working well. The leader has to make his/her staff actually enjoy working for them.

Quite often these yards have poor Yard Managers who could not care less or even notice when staff have been working exceptionally hard; so it does become pointless to make any effort with your work. So low pay combined with a YM that doesnt give a [****] about you- quite honestly why should anyone bother.

Or even worse there are Yard Managers that would not even notice, nor actually care if they heard that a horse had gone without hay for the night or other things like that.

If the yard manager cannot be bothered then why should the staff bother? I think that this happens more than people realise. So Yard Managers need to go on courses and learn how to manage people correctly!
 
No No.

Over here you can do degree courses in horse riding and you then specialise in a discipline. Its 6 years training.. the first 2 or so are purely theory and studying the science behind different approaches and training methods. They do some riding.. but they arent allowed to work on the yards with other peoples horses.

The following 4 are done as working-study courses where they are placed under the charge of another head riding (incidently, head riders can only have 2 of these students at a time). At this point they're having daily lessons with the rider in charge of them, often also working on yards (either livery or competition) and still attending lectures.

They have exams throughout and have to be able to ride to a very high standard in each discipline. Assuming they qualify, the direct translation of their title is "head rider". These people work as the chief riders at livery yards, equestrian centres and the like and are in charge of exercise plans for all horses, schooling the liveries, mentoring other students and overseeing the general running of the yard. As i said, starting salary is 50,000 pounds and various incentives... the better the reputation you have, the more places will try to sweeten deals to get you to work there.

Pay while a student is really poor as in the UK, but they can claim some level of benefits also while studying.

In addition to the head riders, you can do a similar degree enabling you to become a stable master or head groom. Stable masters oversee the management side of the horses (they do, to a degree, report to the chief riders but generally the riders stay out of the management side). The grooms are then the people who deal with the more general working of horses (i.e on days when the chief rider can school or the horses need hacking, the grooms do this), they travel to competitions, do the tacking up, grooming, bandaging of the horses for the chief rider etc.

The stable masters are also on around 50k a year but thats pretty top whack for them, where as chief riders start there. Grooms are around 40k once fully qualified.

They do still work long long hours. The place i livery at is open from 5am til 10pm and the staff work in shifts. Theyre fully expected to do ANYTHING the liveries ask of them without argument. Its very much a service and the level of respect between customer and staff is much higher than ive seen in the UK. Our staff all live on site also.

But basically over here, working with horses has to be seen as a career and you're expected to do as much training as with any other degree course.
 
I know what you mean. I struggle with half-arsedness all the time here and I think my yard is the best I've been at so far (in terms of care.... other liveries are monsters and the school is on the crap side...)
I've found PF left in her stable all day because she's a slow eater.
I've found her tethered within shagging distance of the last stally in the world I would EVER use.
One of the grooms forgot to put 2 horses back in their stable one night... even though they were tied up outside.
Lots of times the beds aren't mucked out.
When I was at the Posh Yard I used to see the grooms tell Olympic Rider that they'd lunged their horse for 20 mins when in fact it had been less than 5...
Jeeeez.
I really need my own yard!
 
That is so interesting. Are there a lot of people enrolling on these 6 year courses? Do many people get kicked off or drop out ?
Just wondering because if they are starting at £50k once theyve done the 6 years training, there must be a very high demand and not enough riders available?

It is easy to see why Holland is so outstanding with their performances in the Olympics etc when the whole country has such high standards!
 
Its the first time ive been really comfortable with other people handling my horses.

Over the years ive had people tie my horses to metal gates resulting in poll damage, ive had them kicked, bitten and bullied due to people not caring about trying to get horses into good herds, ive had a mares leg trapped in a stable door because someone forgotten to do her top bolt, ive had a horse given drugs that were nothing to do with him due to incorrect feeds, ive had them turned out in stable bandages, turned out in stable rugs, not mucked out properly, left without water, left stood in, feet not picked out, injuries not dressed, supplements never reaching my own horses, someone else riding them when they arent meant to... Ive seen it all really.

Since jack moved to denmark hes had no injuries or illness. They do whatever they say they're going to without question. Ive only just gotten used to this... ive been of the mentality for so many years that i HAVE to go and check my horses because the staff wont actually do what they're meant to.

Everything is done to a very high standard but the people working with horses are respected and paid well for what they do.

The whole system just seems to work much better than it does in the UK as everything is well governed.
 
Ive no idea about the intake levels or the % that suceed to be honest. I was just rather shocked because ive always worked with horses and half intended on doing some part time work over here when we moved.

It became blatently obvious that wouldnt happen ;p

The standards are very high and theres no sugar coating things. Ive seen students literally dragged off horses for slightly jabbing their mouths. I like that side of it because its creating a system of very good riders. Even at the absolute early riding lessons for children everything is taught very correctly. Theyre lunged without reins until their seats are independent enough to be "trusted" with the reins - and we're talking 5 and 6 year olds here
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On the other hand, the same zero tolerance is shown to horses and for me, its a bit harsh. Theyre expected to come out and behave and perform a job. While you dont see any overt discipline towards the horses (theres no beating them and yelling at a horse is a huge offence here), but they are very tough on them and i think it creates slightly machine like animals.

You have to remember though, that while some people have been critical on here about the way denmark keep their horses (for instance, many dont get turned out to graze anywhere near as much as the uk as its not deemed necessary), they're a very old horse country and take the sport very seriously. Theres a lot of pride involved in their breeding programs and their training. Its just all very professionally done. We keep our horses rather differently to the UK but as ive tried to explain on here before... it doesnt mean its wrong - its just different.

(Example: none of our horses are seeing any grazing over winter. Partly because the fields are poached and its deemed dangerous for both the staff and the horses and partly because they dont believe daily grazing is a necessity at all. Most are turned loose in one of the indoor schools on an almost daily basis...

All are on the horse walker for an hour a day.

All are fed three times a day and ALL have oats.

Many of the horses will only go out a few times a week over summer also - again, its not deemed necessary and particularly in the area we're in, there are some very awful biting flies that most fly repellents dont touch. Therefore turning them out is seen as more stressful to the horse than keeping them in the shade and away from the insects!)
 
The thing is that I put up a whiteboard for that very reason! So I could write stuff down! I can only assume that its because its up at 5ft7 level and the folk on who make the mistakes are short (dont jump on me for that - as to me thats a better excuse than purely not being arsed to read it!)

Unfortunately the YM we feel is not happy in her job, and so that reflects amongst everyone who works there. If it was a horrible hard to work yard I would understand, but its easy - well laid out, fields arent far away. Ok there are 36 odd stabled horses, about 12 of them are diy - maybe less - and daily there are 3 people on, sometimes 4 or 5. The full liveries arent groomed , so mornings are jsut feed and rug change and out, then mucking out, then bring in at about 3pm, and feed.

I have never worked there so dont know how hard they work, but they do get a good number of breaks - numerous 15 min fag breaks and 1hr lunch.

Maybe I am too hard working?! I was once told I was a bit 'insane' for being out in the yard, in waterproofs in lunch hour in really bad rain that had just started - all because I wanted to sweep it clean and couldn't for weeks as it was always damp and u can only properly sweep a dry yard or a wet yard. I did however loose morale when I got soaked trying to catch YO horse as sh wanted to ride adn I was soaked through to underware and it was decmber and they said I could not go home and change as that would leave 2 staff on yard (yet we could go get lunch and leave ME on my OWN).

Every yard I have worked at I have tried my best. If everything is done I would find stuff to do - cleaning feed bins or feed areas, etc etc. THe YO's would think I was mad, but after a while of only me doing it and it not being done when I wasnt there they would begin to ask the other staff to do the same.

I have my horse not because I can ride - in fact I do not over enjoy riding, it is fun i guess, but I prefer looking after my horse, and shock horror - mucking out and cleaning tack and I take pride in having a clean, tidy and orderly yard!

If I hadn't been such a wimp when I was younger I would have stuck at college doing horses, and I would love to be a YM, but my riding is poop
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If I could ride as well as I sweep/keep yard I would be the equivalent of say Carl Hestor!

This is my BIGGEST bug bear - that and kids who own ponies but have NEVER mucked out before - don't get me started on that!! Although I do feel happy that one kid revealed that she got so fed up not being able to muck out that she got someone to show her, and the girl who showed her was a girl I had shown how to muck out a couple of years ago - so at least some useful knowledge is being passed down
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My old yard I was on part livery and it was perfect - really perfect but there were no grooms - just the owner doing all 15 horses herself and she was passionate about the job.
Where I am now, I can't say much as this is online, but i'm far from impressed - and at £65 a week I would expect a LOT better care of myself and my horse
 
When we lived in Denmark my mum definitely preferred the way horses were looked after there. He friend had dressage horses and they were looked after like they were kings. She has never been overly impressed with standards here - and so she was VERY harsh on us when we had them at home. Everything swept clean, tack cleaned, feed swept up, field poo picked twice a week. She even liked the cobwebs off the stables!!
Now these werent even brilliant stables - just ones dad made for our ponies years ago, adn slightly impossible to keep everything clean as the wall between the stable and the feed room was slatted so shavings got through daily.

I just pray I can have my dream of winning the lotttery, finding a good number or acres, and building my dream yard - and I will WORK there, and make sure everything is done the way it should be
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The closest I have ever seen to how I would like things done is Fountain Equestrian in Aberdeenshire. I loved that place - except for hardly getting to ride for competitions being on - hense why my ideal yard will have TWO indoor schools
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Thing that pee's me off about our yard (I'm on DIY) is certain members of staff who think they are your 'mate' just because you are friendly to them and don't talk to them as though they are dirt. I've had one of them waltz into my stable, take my full hay net and give it to one of the horses she was clipping because she 'couldn't be a**sed to fill one' herself and I 'wouldn't mind' because it was her. Needless to say, I did mind! Same girl had a full livery mucking out her horses because she 'wasn't feeling well'.
I'm not a snob, and I will be friendly and polite to everyone and don't talk down to people who's job it is to assist me, but I do expect the client / staff relationship to exist.
 
I agree with Flicker that people who are all "matey" with you are irritating. I used to be one
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until someone did it to me and I realised how annoying it was! Some people take it to the extreme though.
That's what I love about my yard though, everyone has a LOT of respect for everyone else, no children so less upset, and when someone arrives they are "paired up" with another livery. The two horses then go out together and are basically pair-bonded. That ensures that the horses are never alone in the field, and if a horse gets put out with the wrong rug on we all know who is to blame! Horses never get fed the wrong feeds as everyone has their "pair" of horses to be responsible for. It does work very, very well when we have the "right" people in the yard. We also all used to be tied to one-another regarding field turnout times, but now the pairs of horses go out with eachother and come in whenever an owner turns up. It's so much easier and 99% of the time keeps things running smoothly!
 
Thats the part i always had trouble with in the UK.. that client/staff thing...

You try to treat them with respect (as you should!) and they seem to take liberties because you suddenly become a friend... and often, those liberties seem to effect your horse's care.

Or you try and keep a very strict distance and not get involved and you come across as a bitch or a snob who pays for full livery and treats staff like dirt

Again, over here its very clear that its a service industry and they cant do enough to help you. They make it clear they want you to stay... they almost compete for your custom. Its a totally different thing for me. I pay for a personal groom to turn jack out... shes one of the staff there but we pay her extra to do little things for jack. We got her a christmas pressie too. Shes the loveliest girl ever. She even refuses to take the extra money sometimes because she'll say hes only been out x number of times instead of y number.
 
We have one of those types at our yard! allthough she is an apprentice from an equine college so regurlary gets a huge telling off from her tutor. The other week she took 1.5 hours to muck out 1 horse, then the next day when her tutor was there 20 mins. Allthough only been at the yard a couple of months and as far as I know is being sacked very soon!

Allthough have to admit we also have some amazing comitted people who will look after the horses so well, and if they see anything strange will contact us, for example when pickle stopped eating his haylage properly I was told and then got his teeth done
 
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