Stable Tax (rates on private yards)

[HKJ]

Everyone in our area is receiving letters from the council (Isle of Wight) about them wanting to assess for the amount of stables you have, barn size, if there is a school or not ect.
Word on the street is (without starting a panic) is that ALL stables have to pay rates, even if privately owned, on your own land, for your own use (no business) !!

Apparently horses are no longer classed as domestic animals.

We have also heard that the council can back date it 7 years!!!! Costs £2 per stable per week. A school £2000 per year.... Have any other counties been having these issues and how did they get around it (loop holes!)

This is ridiculous as so, done asked if that means if they will remove bins/rubbish ect and were told no - they just have to pay the tax!

Interested to hear other peoples views/experiences and we are concerned about what this could mean for us small, private yards

TIA

 

[DD]

I suggest you contact the BHS about this.

 

[cobgoblin]

I can't find anything on the Defra site about the re-classification of horses.
As long as they are leisure horses and the stables are within the curtilage of your house ( where the garden area would be) then they should be covered by the property's council tax.

 

[HKJ]

I suggest you contact the BHS about this.

We shall be. It is a very real tax, we have spoken to the Rate dispute person. It is up to each council if they wish to make this charge or not.

 

[HKJ]

For us, our land and stables are not part of the house. But even people with land and stables attached to their house will have to pay this extra tax.
So far, there are about 250 people waiting for their yards to be inspected by the council to see their facilities.

Would still like to hear if anyone has gone through this process and the outcome. Have a look at the .gov sites, I do not believe it is on DEFRA.
From what we have dug up, there was something similar happening about 5 years ago, all hush hush, but didn't get through and they could not start up until 5 years later they are doing this very quietly over here as well. Leaving letters on gate posts ect.

 

[PeterNatt]

There has been no change in the classification of horses.
Someone in the Isle of Wight local authority have got it all wrong and will end up causing a lot of aggravation and wasting a lot of taxpayers money over this nonsense.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

This link may prove useful:-

http://www.fishergerman.co.uk/rural-consultancy/news/business-rate-revaluation

http://www.carterjonas.co.uk/news-a...nd-stables-reminded-of-rates-revaluation.aspx

 

[HKJ]

Strangely enough, the letters are from a Birmingham company address, on behalf of the local council. A few of the yard owners who have been in to ask the question to the council, say even the people at the council are either confused or unaware! But it is island wide.
Will keep you posted.

 

[HKJ]

This is exactly what we have found, except that they are targeting EVERYONE with a stable, barn or land with a horse on it! Most of us are only small land owners with a couple of stables, no business or liveries.

Also just found out, that farmers who rent out stables to people whose horses are not used on the farm will be liable to paying rates on their stables as a business - where before, farmers used to open up their land to horses to help pay for the farms ect.

Crazy.

QUOTE=Toby_Zaphod;12996044]This link may prove useful:-

http://www.fishergerman.co.uk/rural-consultancy/news/business-rate-revaluation

http://www.carterjonas.co.uk/news-a...nd-stables-reminded-of-rates-revaluation.aspx[/QUOTE]

 

[Goldenstar]

You might want to have a google about small business rate relief .
I am glad they are chasing up farmers though it's very unfair they get away without paying rates while stand alone equestrian business has too .

 

[JLD]

Hi. We had this this year, everyone I know locally got assessed. We had someone from council come round and look , they decided ours was in the curtilage of our garden, but 2 of our neighbours got letters saying they had to pay the tax (about £ 100 a month) but might be able to get a rebate on it some how .

 

[Dry Rot]

Rates are usually assessed on the notional rental value of a property (or did when I was at college!). I had a very interesting meeting with an assessor who opened up and told me a lot about how the system works. If you can show that there is no local demand for your stables, you can argue that your rates ought to be similarly low. This assessor did advise me to ALWAYS appeal a rating valuation as they do sometimes try it on! A valuation is, after all, only an opinion -- though you will be expected to produce some hard facts to support your arguement.

 

[Polos Mum]

within the curtilage of your house

This is the key bit anywhere in the UK, rates are due on private facilities if the above isn't the case, there are reliefs currently available for 100% of the cost - but these are being phased out over time.
It's a route many councils are looking at to generate some income to fill all the gaps.

It's really difficult to know what the curtilage is ! for us, lawyers and certainly the council

 

[cobgoblin]

http://manuals.voa.gov.uk/corporate...olume4/sect2/part2/b-rat-man-vol4-s2-ptb.html

This has some information on the definition of 'curtilage'.

 

[katherine1975]

It is very real and correct. We were assessed even though our land & stables are for private use only. £200 per stable per year and £1 per square metre of school. You have to prove that your land is within the domestic curtilage of your property. We went to a tribunal and won our case, I have been trying to raise the awareness of this issue but no one seems to believe it. It is a new tax on horse owners.
OP pm me if you want more info.

 

[HKJ]

Thank you everyone. We need to get this right as you can only appeal once!

Katherine1975 I will pm you. X

 

[skint1]

So sorry this is happening to you all, very disturbing. I hope it won't put farmers off of offering livery services

 

[jrp204]

So sorry this is happening to you all, very disturbing. I hope it won't put farmers off of offering livery services

Probably not but it will put the price of livery up.

 

[skint1]

What with many farms, particularly council owned ones near towns, going for housing and people moaning about horse poo on roads and shared use paths, and in fact just horses on roads and paths, so many bridleways disappearing and things like this, I feel like horses are under attack. Well attack is a strong word, but I'm on my phone and have big fat fingers!

 

[JillA]

Does anyone know under what legal right they are doing this? As far as I am aware there are domestic rates and business rates and if your buildings are neither, they don't have any legal right to levy a rate on them. If there is something it needs addressing by parliament - can you imagine what an extra charge will do to property prices and the value of horses?

 

[HKJ]

This is exactly the problem. They are just trying to squeeze every penny out of people they can. All our neighbours have also received these letters. They are left on gates and tied to barns ect.
The other problem is the horses welfare - if people have to start paying out hundreds of pounds to have their own stables, already I've heard of people saying they will just knock the stables down!
Will keep everyone posted - but don't just ignore the fact you have not yet got a letter. They might be going county by county and they are hitting the Island at the moment...

 

[Polos Mum]

Does anyone know under what legal right they are doing this? As far as I am aware there are domestic rates and business rates and if your buildings are neither, they don't have any legal right to levy a rate on them. If there is something it needs addressing by parliament - can you imagine what an extra charge will do to property prices and the value of horses?

It's more that there are domestic rates and everything else (well a few others but for this example lets keep it simple) - the question is whether the stables are domestic or not - rather than are they a business or not - does that make sense? So if they are not domestic (which is largely in the curtilage of your home) then by default they are the other one - which just confusingly happens to be casually referred to as business - it has nothing to do with running a business or not.

When I bought my house 18 months ago I got the solicitors to do a lot of extra work to provide me with enough evidence that the buildings I have meet the definition of curtilage / domestic to defend a claim (should one be made).

It's not an immediate issue as you can get 100% discount on the bill (rate relief) because you don't make any money from them!! the issue is that the gov if phasing this relief out - then people will be stuck.

 

[ycbm]

Unless your stables and arena are within the curtilage of your domestic property, rates are due, it's as simple as that.

It's always been the case, except councils never chased it up and have now started to because they have realised just how many people now have arenas and stables and how much they can collect.

The only thing you can challenge this under is exactly what 'curtilage' means, but in principle your stables and arena have to be very close to existing buildings.

 

[cobgoblin]

This is exactly the problem. They are just trying to squeeze every penny out of people they can. All our neighbours have also received these letters. They are left on gates and tied to barns ect.
The other problem is the horses welfare - if people have to start paying out hundreds of pounds to have their own stables, already I've heard of people saying they will just knock the stables down!
Will keep everyone posted - but don't just ignore the fact you have not yet got a letter. They might be going county by county and they are hitting the Island at the moment...

I think this is exactly what will happen. Stables will be demolished and arenas will be de-constructed. I wouldn't pay £2500 a year for the privilege of having an arena - that's almost as much as our council tax! Besides which, an arena is hardly a building is it? I can see a grass arena will be the thing of the future.
I don't think this is going to end up as the cash cow the councils are hoping for. Over time ( or perhaps very quickly!) everyone will start keeping their horses out with an open field shelter unless their stables are within the curtilage . The value of houses with said stables will rocket.
Arena construction companies will suffer as will stable manufacturers. Native breeds that can winter out will become more popular. Livery prices will rise, with the consequent effect on horse welfare.
Within a few years this tax will cost more to collect than it's worth, and the council will have the cost of another round of abandoned horses. Houses that have destroyed their equestrian facilities will have lost some of their value and therefore less revenue in the form of stamp duty and inheritance tax will be collected. Such is the wisdom of local and national government.

 

[canteron]

Do the BHs have any guidance on this? Has anyone spoken to them?

 

[Polos Mum]

Do the BHs have any guidance on this? Has anyone spoken to them?

Not sure there is anything they can do - it is basic tax law.

If you've bought a property recently and your solicitors didn't raise it and it starts to cost you money then you can probably claim something from them.

No need for immediate panic/ ploughing of arena as there is 100% relief until 31 March 2016 for rateable values under £12k (which most would be)

Best bet is to argue the curtilage definition (there are no definitions so you can just tie the council in knots) Stables on land not near a house have always had this issue

 

[cobgoblin]

http://www.openfields.org.uk/Librar...mnt=VHJ1ZQ==&uSesDM=False&rIdx=MTA5Mw==&rCFU=

A better explaination.

 

[DD]

Strangely enough, the letters are from a Birmingham company address, on behalf of the local council. A few of the yard owners who have been in to ask the question to the council, say even the people at the council are either confused or unaware! But it is island wide.
Will keep you posted.

are you sure it isnt a scam?

 

[HKJ]

We spoke to the BHS today, and they don't have a clue. In fact, they gave us a number to call, who had never even heard of the BHS and don't work along side them!
We are going around in circles.... Yes, you pay rates, but then for that you get something in return, such as your waste removed (or if business, income) but for the normal 'Joe Bloggs' you don't!

 

[cobgoblin]

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/thousands-of-horse-owners-are-not-paying-enough-tax-196373


Well the BHS had something to say about it in this article and even suggested that members phone them.