Staffs fighting :-(

[nathangeorge]

Me and my partner have two staffs. Lexi the bitch has known Buddy (male) since she was a pup, she is 11 months he is four. We haven't had them very long and in the first few weeks they had a couple of fights which we think were down to jealousy, as soon as we stood and shouted they parted and we put them in seperate rooms for a few minutes, they woul dbe wary of each other for the rest of that day but the next they would be back to the usual play fighting and completley loving eachother.

But, last night they had an awful fight, Lexi would not let go and Buddys ear was bleeding, it was so horrible. It looked like Lexi started it so we put her outside for ages while we sorted Buddys ear. We don't know why it happend and it reallu upset me. It doesn't happen often at all but I am worried they will get worse.

Does anyone have any experience in dealing with this kind of thing? If it does get worse I will re-home Lexi as I don't want to be scared in my own home. The rest of the time they are angels and the loveliest dogs we could wish for.

 

[BigRed]

Dogs "knowing " each other and living together permanently are two different things.

My dogs see plenty of other dogs on a regular basis, they do not fight when they see them out and about, but if I plonked them in the same room, there could be a problem, and they are only whippets !!

Some dogs are just jealous types and your problem is massively compounded because this is a breed that isn't scared to get stuck in.

The first thing I would say, is that they ought not to be left alone together when you go out, or go to bed. That way they can't get easily get cross with each other. Neither should they be shown any favour, ie, don't let them on the sofa, or your bed. They should both be neutered asap because that can often make a big difference in aggression. Finally you need to make sure they get loads of exercise, sometimes dogs who are bored and have pent up frustrations can turn a game into a fight. Don't get involved in games that can lead to a fight either even if this means throwing a ball for one, while the other is on the lead.

 

[nathangeorge]

Thank you for your reply.

The dogs have been living together for the past year, if you spy on them when they don't think you are looking they are curled up together, they have two seperate beds in the kitchen but they always share one. They are best friends and have been like I say for the past year.

I think what is does come down to is jealousy but we try so hard not to give more attention to one, when they had a fight yesterday they had just come back from over an hour long walk, they run off the lead and have so much fun together! I guess I'm asking if anyone has any experience as in do they know whether Lexi-who seems to be the one that won't let go in a fight is going to get more aggresive as she gets older, if she does we won't know how to cope with her :-( I would hate for her to have to be taken away.

She hasn't been done yet-Buddy has, maybe that will be the next step with her.

Thanks again.

 

[mattilda]

I can sympathise with you completely. I have three dogs, two Rotties and a Ridgeback. RR is a bitch, spayed and 9 years old. 3 yr old Rotty bitch, spayed and her brother a male Rotty unneutered 2 yrs old. Have had them all since they were pups. RR and female lived tiogether happily until June whe Rotty attacke RR. Has done it several times since and we think it's a jealousy thing plus Rotty is reaching maturity. We have to manage them carefully to prevent furthur attacks. Have used a muzzle (which she hates) and now am using a remote training collar. If that doesn't work Rotty will be rehomed regrettably.

 

[nathangeorge]

It is so scary isn't it. Apparently when they are fighting you have to chuck water over them to stop them but last night it was all happening and I couldn't think. In the end my partner had to stick his thumb in Lexis wind pipe to make her let go of my poor little Buddy. I don't understand how they can love each other so much and then just turn like that.

Do you think getting Lexi done would make a difference? I thought it was mainly dogs which that made a difference to?

 

[BigRed]

My sister has two JR's. Both bitches. The younger one is a complete psycho. There were increasingly nasty fights until she had the younger one (11 months) speyed last month, now the house is peaceful and happy. No more fights.

My No.4 whippet was a pain from age 1, always fighting and drawing blood on the other 3. When I had her speyed, it calmed her down considerably.

 

[nathangeorge]

That is so good to know thank you

I will call the vets now.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

Don't know if it works on Staffs, but I know someone with 3, unneutered Rhodesian Ridgeback males. She favoured them very clearly, making them all know that she was number one, first dog was first dog, second dog was second... She made it so clear for them that SHE decided the packorder, that it became pointless for them to argue in between themselves. And if they tried anything, for example, when they started getting sexually matured, she would just step in and end it.

I do this myself, number one dog always gets the most greetings when I come home etc. I do not treat them entirely equal. And I never had any arguements between my dogs, not even when first dog have gotten old or sick and would have been very easy to overcome for the younger dog. I could tell that the younger dog didn't understand how I could still put first dog first, but she realized there was no way for her to change the situation herself.

Anyway, yes, spaying or neutering have better chances of being effective if you do it before they have gotten used to their own behaviour.


from Sweden.

 

[nathangeorge]

Thank you I will try this. I think initially that is why the fighting started-Buddy the older dog was 'top dog' at his old home because he had been there the longest. But when they came to us we treated them the same, Buddy was also very homesick and didn't want any cuddles so Lexi was getting more, Buddy then became jealous and they had a couple of attacks.

I have just registered her at the vets and I will take her in as soon as possible, this seems the most obvious thing to try first of all. Fingers crossed all is well after that, if not we will then have to make a decision.

L

 

[FinnishLapphund]

I believe treating equal is good for children, but dogs do not treat each other equal, they don't learn anything from you get your treat first this time, second next time and then first again...

Examples on how well my dogs know wich place they have in my = their packorder.

My first dog knows she doesn't need to sit under the dinnertable, she can lie comfortably in the dogbed she's choosen, because she knows, if any one gets anything, not only will I make sure she gets something, she knows, she will get her bit first.

My mother fell in love with one of Jonnas pups, and I in another, so we ended up keeping two. They're 4 ½ month now, and they already know wich one of them that has been given the second place in the packorder and wich of them that is number three, because as soon as I had figured out wich one of them I thought was more suitable to be second, I started treating them accordingly.

If you always let first dog train first, gets their food first, walk through the door first, gets their paws wiped first... And when they know that you decide the packorder, you can occasionaly decide that right now, you get to train first, because I decide so. And the dogs doesn't take it as a change in packorder, just that I have some divine knowlege that they don't.

from Sweden.

 

[SunshineTallulah]

If she is 11mths, she may be due her second season and experiencing a bit of PMT - totally natural.

Just ensure you allow them to have their own space and I would never let them sleep in the same room together locked in, I would seperate them for their own safety.

If the spaying does not help (the vets are so keen to spay that I dont think you'll have ANY issues - they asked me if I wanted my dog done at 6mths - er no ta, she hasnt stopped growing yet!!) then seek a behaviourist, though actually I would try that route first, as spaying can sometimes make dogs more nervous aggressive.

Good luck!

 

[XVII]

I certainly hope you are not keeping these two together without any one there?

So what do we have here... Two dogs, (doesn't matter at all what the breed is...) And these two dogs don't get on? Instantly my first question comes to mind, are they spayed and snipped? If not, do so. That to begin with will eliminate some or all aggression.... And territory issues......

(Oh also sunshine tallulah there is NOTHING natural about a dog drawing blood from a fellow pack member this is unwanted behaviour...)

Ah so where was I... Oh yes... TWO... Do not put one outside (Punishment) and leave one inside... You are helping to secure in the mind of the one you leave indoors that this is their territory and theirs alone....

Treat them both firmly, calmly and equally...

I have never had issues with my dogs (which happen to be staffords) But have dealt with friends staffys when fighting... I would suggeest you seek a behaviour trainer... A good one. In this situation I would grab both by the throats... Firm (not violent firm) and pin them to the floor... I am pack leader and no one, fights for rank or poession or teritory because I am leader it is all mine... not theirs... You need a trainer to help you establish you are leader and you say who gets what and what belongs where not them....

You say you have only had them for a short period of time?? So what do you mean? You went and adopted/bought them from seperate people and brought them into one house hold? You have to understand you have put two dogs into a strange enviorment so to begin with if not treated correctly you instantly have two unstable dogs that are not that sure about things... You've then put them together.... If they know not their place they will battle to find who has top dog rite.

I can't stress this enough... Do NOT leave newley introduced dogs alone... And please get some help from someone in the local area... Not from online... You need someone to be there phyiscally and show you what needs to be done and what needs to be changed....

 

[nathangeorge]

Thank you for your advice but I really wish people would read everything before replying!!! The do know eachother! They have known each other and lived together all of their lives.

I think the issue was purely jealousy, I agree that there has to be a pack leader, first and foremost that is me, second is Buddy the older dog and last is Lexi, if Lexi gets above herself, which is what seems to have happend when this fight took place she fights back, rather than just being 'told off' by Buddie, she decided no,she would fight back when this is not her place to do that, she should do what Buddy says.

Buddy must have been top dog in his previous home as he had been there for longest, when Lexi came to the house she was a pup and would follow Buddys lead, he took care of her, he also told her off when she got above herself. Now when they came to us Buddy was very homesick and not interested in affection so Lexi got it all, she would sit with us and get all the attention while Buddy sulked under the table.

I started last night to re-introduce Buddy as the top dog and I will continue with this so if it ever gets to the point where they are angry in the future, Lexi will back off from Buddy.

I wish Ceaser would come and see me though!

 

[XVII]

Neither dog should be top dog... They should be equal..... *sigh* good luck with that, don't expect to see much change though... heh.

 

[kibob]

I echo everything that Tracy01 sais. I would also recommend getting Lexi spayed, I assume Buddy is castrated?.

NEVER leave them alone together, perhaps it may be an idea to get them a crate each - a safe place for them both to go when you cannot watch them.

I'm a little confused about how long you have had Buddy. You say he is 4 now and Lexi 11 months, you have had Lexi since a pup so Buddy would have been 3ish when you got her. You re-homed buddy at what age, did he live with you prior to Lexis' arrival? I just wonder whether this may have had an impact upon him, perhaps he struggles to find his place in a pack and maybe Lexi has now decided it is time to try and make herself top dog?

However, as everyone else has mentioned you are top dog and you need to reiterate this to your two, sometimes it is easy to forget and we humanise them too much

,

Good luck, I'm sure you will find a solution and have a happy pack again soon

 

[FinnishLapphund]

I'm not expecting to change your view XVII, but I don't think I treat my dogs unjust, only that I don't treat them equal in the way I treat my sisters children equal.

I treat my dogs equal, by feeding them at the same time. But I only put down one bowl at a time, and it's always the same dog that gets her food first, and I believe to be really equal they should get first according to a rotating schedule or at least all bowls on the floor within, maybe, two seconds.
I greet all my dogs just as much when I come home, and that's equal. But I always focus my greeting at one at a time, and it's always in the same order, and I wouldn't say that's 100 % equal.

I would never treat my dogs unequal in the way of "let-that-dog-live-out-in-the-leaky-garden-shed-til-she-knows-her-place-in-the-pack". But it sure DOESN'T sound as if that's how Meandstar understood my advice.


from Sweden.

 

[nathangeorge]

Yes Buddy has been castrated, Lexi does need to be done, I registered her yesterday at the vets and I will book her in this week.

They get left alone together all day, they have the roam of the garden, if it gets to the point we can't leave them alone together then Lexi will have to go, it will break my heart but the whole reason we got both of them was because their previous owners wouldn't let them go seperatley due to the fact Buddy was all Lexi knew, also it means they have company all day while we are out at work, if they have to be seperated this defeats the object so we will say goodbye to Lexi

We only got them both about a month ago, so we are all still learning about each other.

Thankyou, I hope we don't need too much luck with them! Despite all of the above they really are gorgeous and loving dogs and 99% of the time they are perfect.

 

[XVII]

Seperating them for a temporary time (Only when not supervised) does not defeat the object... It gives them a "time out" and space they can still smell one another but not get to one another, This of course should only be temporary while you train them in the correct behaviour manner to one another :/ I strongly suggest as I said before you seek help from your local area and not from online as online help isn't to an extent going to help too much with your problems.

You need someone to come and show you how to react and train them.. Dogs drawing blood from one another is a serious matter, and if not corrected can end up with one dead.

Good to hear you are taking Lexi in to be spayed it will help. The other thing make sure you are walking these dogs for long periods of times.... I see some people that only take their dog out to do its business then take it back or think because they have a garden the dog doesn't require walks... Dogs were made to roam and enjoy it, specially a breed such as this... It has a very high energy level, they can become aggressive, loud, destructive and many other traits if they are not exercised enough, it's called boredom. That have to unleash this energy somehow and as they do not get enough exercise they create some characteristics such as I mentioned... Not saying you don't walk them enough just if you don't it is something you should realise

My staffords have three hours of walking daily... Good as gold... You however do not take them for a walk or so... Things get eaten, things get broken and tails get chased.

 

[Popdog]

I have two Staffs at the moment, one is 24 weeks and the oldest is 15 months (I have owned the breed for 20+ years and they are stroppy little monkeys who will try their luck). I take no prisoners. I am top dog, I am in charge of everything. I decide pack order - end of!

You need to be leader, you need to decide how things work in your pack - there are no equals. My dogs are in my pack and they have no reason to challange each other as I am leader and I dictate the order.

I am tough but fair, my older boy is the underdog (28kgs), my baby bitch (14kgs and growing) is above him as she has the strongest character.

Choose the strongest dog (age/size doesn't matter) and stick to it (it's often the bitch lol), top dog eats first, gets through the door first, greets me first, gets to my lap first...it makes things easy for them.

Years ago my OH moved in with me and it really upset things, my Staffs started competing for position as OH took a higher place and he favoured my underling boy dog - we had some bg Staffie fights and it was very scary. Goodness when they kick off they really go for it!

It was a bit hairy for a while, but we learned about dog psychology and how to control pack order - and things settled down once we established an order.

Don't worry too much, they are just trying to work where they stand and you need to help them work things out x