Stag huntign in Ireland - am I going mad?

[cptrayes]

The letter adds nothing to your argument. I am not, by the way "outraged", this is far too silly an issue to be outraged about. I reserve my outrage for far more serious issues. I am simply bemused that this tpe of "hunting" existed in the 21st century to be around to be banned.

I see the fox hunting arguments. I do not support them, but I understand them. I cannot understand carrying a deer somewhere in a trailer to chase it with a pack of dogs.

 

[Alec Swan]

CPT,

explain to me, if you will, why if this is such a "silly issue", you took the time to open the thread. The subjects which save your outrage for, would make interesting reading, I feel sure!

I'm staggered that you can see an argument for fox hunting, but not that of the deer. Perhaps you could explain your perceived distinctions.

The simple fact is, as you've said, that you don't understand. YOU DON'T, and sadly, those who hold your view point have, over the last few years, done irrevocable damage. If you'd saved one single stag from being killed by hounds, then you may have a point. You haven't. You've condemned the hunted animal to far worse.

It seems to me that you don't want to listen, and that you don't want to be told. It's a great shame, in my view, that those who, though convinced of their principles, are those who are doing the greatest damage to the countryside.

I'm really sorry to tell you this, but your lack of understanding is saddening. You seem to have had your way. Very well done.

Alec.

ETS, regrettably, I suspect that you don't understand, because you don't actually want to.

 

[reindeerlover]

It is a rather pointless waste of time of resources in my opinion. It isn't a "Wild Irish Stag" it's a farmed stag. I'm sure it's great fun to chase it over hedges and ditches on horseback but is there a need for it to be there? I think not. It's doing the farmers no good- no culling of pests there, there is no reason why the same fun cannot be achieved with following a scent. Banned? Great.

 

[dominobrown]

Were Red deer once in Ireland? Why don't they release them back into the wild instead a carting them about. Don;t know much/anything about stag hunting! Fox hunting makes a bit more sense. In England/Scotland aren't stag used for shooting?

 

[cptrayes]

Alec I have already told you why I opened this thread. It's in the post which I posted to open this thread. I did not and do not desire a discussion though I am happy to have one that makes sense. I have read the facts and I will never agree with your point of view. You will never agree with mine. You and I are on different planets on this topic. You can't see my point of view. I can't see yours. That isn't going to change, so can we just agree to differ and you can put your points generally if you want to, but stop trying to argue with me personally?

You don't read my posts very carefully do you? I did not say that I could not see the point of stag hunting. I understand those arguments about culling weak and injured deer. I don't agree it's the best way to do it, but I do understand the arguments. What I do not understand and never will, so give up trying to get me to, is the argument in favour of trailering one deer to a place where some people want to follow some hounds as they make the creature flee in fear of its life, for no single purpose except for a bunch of humans to have some fun at the expense of another creature. The conservation issue is a non-starter, so don't go there. There is no necessity to hunt in order to conserve. No-one is conserving panda so they can be hunted, they are conserving them because they need conserving. And judging from the number of wild red deer around me, only minutes from major urban areas and in sight of vehicles on an A road, it would be a perfectly simple matter to let that herd go, and it would very soon repopulate the whole of Ireland.

I love the argument that because it's banned it shouldn't be talked about Fox hunting is banned but we still talk about it. Drugs are banned but we still talk about them. Where would we be if just because something was either banned or in the past and over and done with we weren't allowed to talk about it? I found it fascinating to discover what hunting the carted stag meant and I'm sure other people did too.

 

[blueneonrainbow]

Id rather the stag was alive at the end of the day's "sport" than dead, however it all seems like a heck of a lot of faffing about, when everyone could just get up on their horses and go for a jolly good gallop over the countryside without ever going anywhere near a stag. Surely the outcome is the same?

 

[Alec Swan]

CPT,

thank you for your response. I have read your posts and with care, too. With regret, I can do no better than refer you to the postscript, attached to my last post.

I would have hoped, that as you appear to be reasonably lucid, you may have listened to reason. Apparently not.

I suspect that in even in 50 years, history and debate, will describe the actions of those who have campaigned to stop hunting, as appallingly misguided.

That Government are only interested in acquiring votes must be obvious, and the same may be said for the welfare charities, except that their real bag is fund raising.

I would imagine that you will be very proud of your efforts. I applaud you.

Alec.

As a foot note, I don't hunt, and have no interest in hunting. I will have no further comments. a.

 

[mle22]

I have personally seen a stag swim out into a lough to try to escape and the hunt sent a boat out to bring it in and set it off to be chased further. I have also seen a stag hide in a farmer's barn to try to get away from the hounds - the hunt wanted to get it out and continue the chase and the farmer refused to let them in to take it. I don't think it can be justified to treat an animal in this way. None of the usual arguments over welfare eg better than shooting, population management etc have any relevance, it is done simply for the gratification of people's desire to ride fast across country. I am very glad it has been banned and I don't see how anyone could think it was ok to do it in the 21st century.

 

[zefragile]

I have personally seen a stag swim out into a lough to try to escape and the hunt sent a boat out to bring it in and set it off to be chased further. I have also seen a stag hide in a farmer's barn to try to get away from the hounds - the hunt wanted to get it out and continue the chase and the farmer refused to let them in to take it. I don't think it can be justified to treat an animal in this way. None of the usual arguments over welfare eg better than shooting, population management etc have any relevance, it is done simply for the gratification of people's desire to ride fast across country. I am very glad it has been banned and I don't see how anyone could think it was ok to do it in the 21st century.

Well you're obviously misguided and don't listen to reason

 

[EAST KENT]

How any of you can read that passionate letter and not take on board HOW we true hunting folk feel about proper hunting defeats me..but I do feel sorrow for you that you will never understand, the true thrill of proper hunting.The passion that,on hearing hounds in the distance makes you grab transport ,be it a horse,bike or car to get up with the action. I`m off to Eire for my fix of true hunting next winter,no chasing a bloody sock for me thanks.

 

[fburton]

WHY DO YOU NEED TO CHASE A DEER TO FOLLOW HOUNDS ACROSS COUNTRY ON HORSEBACK?

I can't see any direct benefit to the deer, but presumably it's fun for the other participants, and gives the hounds something to chase? That is just my guess - maybe someone will give a definitive answer to your question.

 

[JenJ]

How any of you can read that passionate letter and not take on board HOW we true hunting folk feel about proper hunting defeats me..but I do feel sorrow for you that you will never understand, the true thrill of proper hunting.

So do you think feeling passionate about something means it should be allowed? How about, for example, fundamental terrorists who feel that killing thousands of innocent people is the right thing to do. Should that be allowed as they feel passionately about it?

Or paedophiles who get a thrill from abusing children? I will never understand paedophilia, but I really don't feel I'm missing out.

How does feeling passionate about something, and getting a thrill from doing it, mean that it *must* be ok?

 

[cptrayes]

I fully understand the passion. I am on tenterhooks until the season starts. I read the paragragh in the the letter:

"So, when it comes to the Grand National and I am coming to Becher's
Brook, I see the tension in the English jockey's shoulders. I sense his
fear. He doesn't realise it, but he is holding his horse just a gnat's tight
and we're seven strides out, galloping, 40 miles an hour, to a deadly drop.
Suddenly you are there. The moment of truth, and I know in my head, I know I
jumped bigger following the stag the previous month."

And I reply to the last sentence "so did I !!!!"

but I was following a pack of hounds following a scent laid by a man called Des over a hedge bigger than, and with a bigger drop, than Bechers. I have lived on the memory for months since it happened. It did not need a stag.

I feel your passion, and your loss. It does not make it right.

 

[fburton]

The well being of any population of localised wild life, which is hunted, actually benefits from being pursued.

How does this argument apply to carted stags?

 

[fburton]

Anyone?