Stag Hunting

[Pale Rider]

Of course there's nothing wrong with ratting, but that's different, it's just killing rats as quick as possible.
I accept things need controlling, it's just all the bull that goes with hunts, people pretending it's something it's not.
I'm glad it's gone, just the loopholes to fill now.

 

[RuthM]

I'm glad it's gone to, although sad it took lamping and officially ratting with it.

Although, I'm not sure the fox is any better off, digging,exhaust pipes, etc etc - not sure anounce of suffering has been saved. For dogs too, they've just moved another 3ft away from being admired for what they ought to be rather than the disgusting examples of folly seen at crufts.

The whole horse community needs to recover from hunting, people wonder why we're not popular, it's not all because of ignorance, hunting was an image nightmare that had no hope of surviving video cams - much less mobile phones!

 

[cptrayes]

Have you ever tried to corner a wild red deer - or even a fallow?

We have had this discussion many times over the years and I'll repeat what I wrote last time.

Wild red deer are regularly shot in the Peak Park and I believe on Scottish moorland, neither of which have any tradition of hunting stag on horseback in over a century. How different can other areas be that those deer need to be chased by a pack of hounds until they are at bay before they can be shot?

 

[Godknows]

NO hunt has ONE large horse box full of hounds, let alone 2! Hound 'accommodation' is built into the front of a horse-box - with the rest of the space being used for 2-3 hunters. The entire D&SS pack would fit into the space occupied by one horse (and they are the biggest pack!)

So Janet all these hounds would not be transported together? Yes I have seen the hounds delivered to fox hunting in one LARGE HORSE BOX with no horses in.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...c1UN-YK8PR0QXBq4HwBQ&ved=0CFcQ9QEwBg&dur=6198

So all these dogs would fit in one small area in a box travelling 2 -3 hunters as well??

 

[Nightmare before Christmas]

I think all animals sound be treated equal. I shoot 'pests' on my yard like rabbits and rats. Not often though. I shoot for a clean kill and be as humane as possible. Its not that I dont like the animals (I have 5 pet rats myself) but they are a problem on the yard.

Shooting stags is popular in america and that bothers me much less than the stags being chased by dogs before being shot, why not just shoot it in the first place? Anyway each to their own, if someone feels this way is better I just let them get on with it. Lifes too short to try and change things that are unlikely to change.

Fox hunting should come back though, unlike deer foxes are a pest and need controlling

 

[Pale Rider]

Fox hunting should come back though, unlike deer foxes are a pest and need controlling


The only problem with that is that you'd have to bring back the hunt, awful people. Just shoot the foxes like any other pest.

 

[Nightmare before Christmas]

Fox hunting should come back though, unlike deer foxes are a pest and need controlling


The only problem with that is that you'd have to bring back the hunt, awful people. Just shoot the foxes like any other pest.

True. I hunted as a kid...many years ago and they used the hounds to find the fox? Not sure if I remember this right? If so a dog would be needed to find a fox anyway as they tend to be most active at night? Unless you could lamp foxes too? But cant see that working/being logical.

 

[a7neu]

Hi, lurker here

I wouldn't disagree that a staghunt is less humane than a "cull" (we don't really have those where I live), but it does mimic natural mortality more closely than any other form of hunting. Although a conscientious human hunter can pick off deer that appear sickly, how can he detect, e.g. a weak heart valve? I mean, are all genetic defects going to be obvious to the naked eye with a young, otherwise healthy deer?

In nature, somewhat weak deer that look good when doing less rigorous activities will be weeded out when put under pressure by predators like wolves. I would think running with hounds accomplishes the same thing, if it is done responsibly.

Otherwise, a deer may make it into middle or old age before their defect starts taking its toll, which means there is a larger window to pass on problems to offspring. Putting some physical pressure on the herd with hounds may help maintain genetic integrity in ways that simply shooting them cannot.

OR I may be out to lunch . But it's a thought, anyways.

 

[Clodagh]

The rut is natures way of thinning out the less vigorous stags, it is an exhausting time for them and many die.
We now control our foxes with a rifle and it is a lot quicker, more effective and humane. I really don't understand why stag hunting can't be the same. Because it employs lots of people? So did steel works and coal mines and no one cared when they went.

 

[JanetGeorge]

So all these dogs would fit in one small area in a box travelling 2 -3 hunters as well??

Well our hunt has a 7.5 tonne box, with a double deck hound area in the front - it takes 15 couple easily - with space left for partitions for two horses. I haven't measured it but it wouldn't be more than a 20' container. Most hunts have similar set-ups - eg - a double deck hound area at the front, then horses.

 

[RuthM]

I know at least one hunt with a hound box. Mind you, I'm lost for what relevance there is in whether hounds travel with or without the horses?

 

[Nickijem]

I haven't read all the posts but I am quite appalled by some of the reports about the behaviour of some hunts-people.
They are doing themselves no favours because surely hunting a deer with dogs is the most natural method and is more likely to target a weak, old or diseased individual. Deer populations do need to be controlled - they have no natural predators since we got rid of wolves and bears. Natural selection is the most effective way of maintaining a healthy and strong population.
Hunts people who behave badly should be thoroughly ashamed if its their poor attitude that is turning the public against the most natural method of controlling a deer population.

 

[Ladyinred]

We have had this discussion many times over the years and I'll repeat what I wrote last time.

Wild red deer are regularly shot in the Peak Park and I believe on Scottish moorland, neither of which have any tradition of hunting stag on horseback in over a century. How different can other areas be that those deer need to be chased by a pack of hounds until they are at bay before they can be shot?

Totally agree. I could get very close to the Exmoor red deer, stags and hinds alike.. I reckon 25 feet would be close enough for an accurate shot And that is no great claim for a particular talent... I was passionate about the deer, used to study them, knew where they hung out during the day and during the night and I knew the moor well enough to know how to get close unobserved.

To brag (a little) I once touched a hind and her calf on Dunkery Beacon; I believe they can read your intent as well a a horse can and she was extremely calm. Flippin' OH was so excited he left the lens cap on the camera

 

[Godknows]

I know at least one hunt with a hound box. Mind you, I'm lost for what relevance there is in whether hounds travel with or without the horses?

Ruth the hound box I saw was in Nottingham and I know the Master from years back, I don't live in Notts anymore otherwise I would have asked him. I wonder if it's the same hunt?

 

[Godknows]

I don't think you unjderstand the local culture and how staghunting fits into it. The farmers who support staghunting - or who want the deer moved on - TOLERATE the followers because they are part of the package. They wouldn't allow groups of riders to run across their land otherwise. And the support for staghunting also means that farmers TOLERATE the deer and are MUCH less likely to let their mates run loose with rifles or shotguns on their land!

Janet because I don't understand the local culture that's why I asked in the first place.

You still have not answered who owns the deer? Anyone?

Or are they wild and the hunt's people seem to think they have the right to chase them all over the moor? So anyone can just drive up with a horse box a couple of hounds and a gun (like Dick Turpin) and have a pop at them as long as they have a gun licence?

 

[JanetGeorge]

Janet because I don't understand the local culture that's why I asked in the first place.

You still have not answered who owns the deer? Anyone?

Or are they wild and the hunt's people seem to think they have the right to chase them all over the moor? So anyone can just drive up with a horse box a couple of hounds and a gun (like Dick Turpin) and have a pop at them as long as they have a gun licence?

No-one OWNS the deer - they are wild. But - when killed - they effectively belong to the landowner on whose land they were killed (unles he's sold the shooting rights, in which case they belong to the man that shot them IF he is shooting on that land with permission.

The hunts HAVE to have permission from all their farmers (funnily enough the LACS doesn't give them permission to cull on the LACS sanctuaries where there is a BIG problem with worms and TB!) And when a stag is killed, he is butchered - the offal goes to hounds and the carcase is butchered and given to the farmers who have hosted a meet.

Permission is one of the problems with culling deer on Exmoor. There are a LOT of small farms - and if you wound a deer and it runs onto land where you don't have permission to be, you CAN'T follow it up (it would be armed trespass which IS a criminal offence!)

 

[JanetGeorge]

I'm glad it's gone to, although sad it took lamping and officially ratting with it.

It didn't! Lamping is legal (when you have permission to be on that land and have the necessary firearms license), ratting with dogs - as many as you like - is perfectly legal as is hunting rabbits - whether with one dog or a pack. And terrier work is legal when done by gamekeepers - or those working with gamekeepers (Labour didn't want to pi** off the shooters!)

 

[RuthM]

Cool, learned something new and good! Blame Labour, blame anti's or blame video cams, it was the last of the 3 that brought it all down, that and the 'united front'.

I'm glad it's over, even the Tories had more sense than to bring it back when half the planet has got a vid cam in their pocket. It won't come back.

 

[JanetGeorge]

Cool, learned something new and good! Blame Labour, blame anti's or blame video cams, it was the last of the 3 that brought it all down, that and the 'united front'.

I'm glad it's over, even the Tories had more sense than to bring it back when half the planet has got a vid cam in their pocket. It won't come back.

If there was anything 'new' there, it would suggest your knowledge of hunting is limited! The reason hunting was banned when it was is simple - Tony Blair needed a trade-off for his backbenchers who were rebelling!

And - I hate to tell you this - but hunting IS still here - and thriving. There is a solid determination to get the legislation lifted - and it WILL happen, although probably not under the Coalition Government! It's bad legislation (whether or not a ban was justified) which is evidenced by the number of cases dropped and thrown out - and the small number of cases actually prosecuted!

 

[RuthM]

If there was anything 'new' there, it would suggest your knowledge of hunting is limited!

It is limited, it's inside out, ie - was allowed to close gates cubbing a few times but plaited for others to hunt 3 times a week, wasn't involved in campaigning, never hunted one of my own, held plenty owned by londoners to be stitched, ones on 'my block'. I was a groom not hoy poloy, not a master, not a member. I was a groom same place coming up for 10 years then, so effectively invisible to those far more involved. I have not been one trying to circumvent the law, therefore had no reason to ever read it.

Believe it or not it was never the biggest part of my life, the horses were. In the first years when it was fully hunter livery I hated 80% of the people but loved the horses. Years ago I was sentimental, years ago I could not, would not stop looking after them. When my boss bought his own land I did not have to hold animals Monday for stitching, there were still hunters there but more select, not lent out on a whim, not ripped up. The people i worked with all ceased to care if it was banned because of 'stuff' not talked about outside.

Have I read the hunting law - read back every word I've posted here and ask one thing 'Why would I?'.

I won't come back though, despite the tannoys at point to points promising a tory repeal, it won't happen because they know damn well within 6 months there's be new vid footage of 'stuff'.