Stage 3 - horse wouldn't move

[TableDancer]

FWIW I don't think the extreme polarisation of this debate does either the protagonists or their points of view any favours - it is a shame, because there have been lots of more measured interventions on both sides. Surely the BHS and their exam system has some value, otherwise why would so many superb, world class trainers bother to go through it? Conversely, is it really realistic to believe that the implementation of this system is completely flawless on every occasion, and every exam date at every centre conforms to the standards hich the BHS would wish it to?

There are bound to be occasions where something goes wrong, it may be nobody's fault, it may be a combinaton of tiny factors causing a perfect storm. It seems to me from the OP's posts (and bear in mind that he/she wasn't there so I interpret some vagueness as haziness in trying to get the facts from an overwrought teenager, not deliberate obfuscation) that 1) The girl only had the opportunity to ride one suitable horse on the day - the other one (first, second, whatever) being subsequently deemed unsound and 2) She didn't demonstrate riding on the flat of a standard to pass on that horse, for whatever reason. So failing the exam is fine, BUT if she didn't get the chance to ride two horses she didn't get her money's worth and there should be some concession to that in terms of charging for her next attempt. My understanding is that this is all the OP is working for, at least now the dust has settled, and I support their efforts if the circumstances are as we are led to believe.

Charlie76 I did my four at Huntley too and trained for my ISM, it is indeed a great loss but I think at least it is going out on a high and it is their own decision, not running into the ground and petering out like, for instance, Porlock where I did most of my training...

 

[Tnavas]

That makes no sense.
They rode first horses. Someone else obviously ride the 'lame' one and your daughter rode a different (and you say 'unsuitable') one. I can safely assume this, as they don't suddenly bring different horses in halfway through.
They swap.
Your daughter can't make her horse move and it later turns out to be unlevel. Your daughter is not given another horse, presumably as she is not deemed fit to continue to the jumping.

2 horses ridden by each candidate, flatwork section over.
So HOW can you claim that the horse was then given straight to another rider who was allowed a swap?

Disappointment, fine. But bending the truth the meet your own ends gets my back up I'm afraid.

Wrong - let's re read the Op's post

Had a problem today with my daughter's stage 3 exam. The horse provided did not move one inch despite trying all manner of things. Consequently she didn't even get to the jumping or cross country and hence failed the riding section. They then gave the horse to another girl but when it did not move for her (seemed it was probably lame) they replaced the horse so the other girl was able to pass. This seems very unfair and we will be writing to BHS to complain. I just wanted to know if anybody else had come across this during their exams ?

Her daughter was given a horse that would not move, she complained but with no positive result. Meanwhile the other candidates were riding their first horses. At the end of this session all riders swapped horses, usually done by taking the horse on your left or right. The rider who got the static horse also found that it would not move and complained and this time was listened to. Meanwhile the first rider has been evicted!

Years ago during an exam I got to jump a horse that was difficult, I couldn't get the stirrups long enough. Consequently the horse and I did not see eye to eye and I failed the jumping.

I put in a protest and was told that a rider of the calibre required would not have a problem with stirrups too short. I responded with a rider of the caliber required would not consider jumping a difficult horse with sub standard equipment.

When I went for the re sit we were all asked if our stirrups were a suitable length and did anyone require replacements, so the message did get across.

If the horse wouldn't move at Stage 3 level to me it would indicate that the horse had a problem. At Stage 1 I might consider that the rider was not yet at the level of the exam.

BHS let this girl down badly.

 

[Zebedee]

Wrong - let's re read the Op's post

Had a problem today with my daughter's stage 3 exam. The horse provided did not move one inch despite trying all manner of things. Consequently she didn't even get to the jumping or cross country and hence failed the riding section. They then gave the horse to another girl but when it did not move for her (seemed it was probably lame) they replaced the horse so the other girl was able to pass. This seems very unfair and we will be writing to BHS to complain. I just wanted to know if anybody else had come across this during their exams ?

Her daughter was given a horse that would not move, she complained but with no positive result. Meanwhile the other candidates were riding their first horses. At the end of this session all riders swapped horses, usually done by taking the horse on your left or right. The rider who got the static horse also found that it would not move and complained and this time was listened to. Meanwhile the first rider has been evicted!

Years ago during an exam I got to jump a horse that was difficult, I couldn't get the stirrups long enough. Consequently the horse and I did not see eye to eye and I failed the jumping.

I put in a protest and was told that a rider of the calibre required would not have a problem with stirrups too short. I responded with a rider of the caliber required would not consider jumping a difficult horse with sub standard equipment.

When I went for the re sit we were all asked if our stirrups were a suitable length and did anyone require replacements, so the message did get across.

If the horse wouldn't move at Stage 3 level to me it would indicate that the horse had a problem. At Stage 1 I might consider that the rider was not yet at the level of the exam.

BHS let this girl down badly.

Thanks for that - saved me having to type something similar.

A young person who trains with a good friend of mine failed her stage three. She is also a vet student & she felt one of the horses she was given was bi- laterally lame. The examiners basically told her that she didn't know what she was talking about,failed on her flat riding & did not allow her to jump. When she retook the exam a couple of months later she sailed through, which according to an FBHS former chief examiner who is a visiting trainer at the yard she us based at is what should have happened first time.

There seems to be an inherent problem with the BHS exams that at no time can they admit that a mistake may have been made (eg the previous poster who had her fail notice signed by people who hadn't examined her on the day) or that conditions / horses might have been unsuitable (eg the poster who took her exams at her training centre & knew the quirks / was allocated schoolmasters by the centre owner).

At the end of the day ignoring the OPs daughters concerns that the horse she had been allocated had a problem but then acting when the second candidate raised the same issues was unfair. The correct / fair thing to have done under the circumstances would have been to allow both candidates to ride a third horse, & cancelled the first horse from the process.

 

[EventingMum]

This is exactly what we are trying to understand also. Candidate 1 complained the horse was unsound but was ignored. Candidate 2 took the same horse, complained it was unsound and it was changed for her. Clearly they were not all doing the flat tests at the same time!

I'm absolutely in no way trying to discredit BHS. I do not have an issue with BHS. This is an EQ Ltd examination procedural issue concerning equal treatment of candidates, as they are required to do under the OFQUAL regulatory framework in which they operate. If it is deemed that, whether in this particular case, or in future exams that there is a possibility of unequal treatment then EQ Ltd will need to address the issue and make improvements. My understanding is that EQ Ltd are relatively new to the area of exam (any exam) regulation where there is now much more emphasis on ensuring that procedures are very clearly described and followed so that the exam result becomes much more objective and rigorous with less left to chance and subjective assessment. It is hence perhaps not so surprising that there will need to be some tweaking of their system.

My understanding is that EQL is a subsidiary company of BHS and as such the two are inextricably linked. Although under the EQL banner the exams are still in essence BHS exams, the setting up of EQL by the BHS was necessary to conform with OFQUAL regualtions which the BHS as a charity could not.

Unfortunately any assessment of performance will be subjective especially ridden performance (think of dressage marking discrepancies between judges). There are too many variable factors in a ridden exam to create an entirely level playing field and some candidates will be more at home on a particular type of horse than others so there will always be an element of luck in that respect, however the assessors are trained experienced people and really do the best they can to be as fair as humanly possible.

A lame horse is not acceptable however we all know horses can suddenly go lame. Centres are inspected prior to becoming exam centres and the assessors make a report on the centre at the end of each exam so issues can be addressed however obviously the horses available on any given day cannot be guaranteed.

As the exams are professional qualifications the candidate should be able to put one bad ride behind her and focus on riding the second horse well, I assume she has already sat stages 1 and 2 or her PC B test and as a competitor should be able to deal with some stress -few exams are stress free - that's life!

 

[ruth83]

Thank you OP for coming back and updating us on the situation. I'm pleased it has been clarified that the usual procedure of riding 2 horses was followed.

OP, obviously I do not know your daughter and as such cannot comment on her riding ability but, if I may say so, I would perhaps encourage her to take a little more time to develop her all round skills for the exam, as well as riding, before a retake. The Stage 3 exam results in both the Grooms Certificate and a vital component of the BHSAI qualification - where teaching becomes a part of someones job. As such, there is a big step in not just the riding skills but the confidence, stress management and maturity desired in a succesful candidate. I have made similar mistakes. I entered for my Intermediate Teaching Test very shortly after attaining my AI. I was nowhere near 'worldly wise' enough to cope with the demands of the day and the varying challenges. I'm not saying stop, I'm suggesting time and experience to allow her to go with the capacity to deal with anything the day may throw at her - after all, that is what the horse world is like!! Only last weekend I was presented with a horse who point blank would not canter for me, my job now is to deal with that.

On a more general note, exam centres are regularly monitored by the assessors as they go in for exams. Most are run by assessors who know the standard of horses required for the exams. The horses must earn a living from day to day and cannot be kept purely for exams. Equally, candidates may and do turn up for exams below the required standard and unintentionally overhorsing them on the day could be dangerous. In my work as a freelance coach/rider/groom I rarely know what I am going to be asked to ride. Some are a joy to sit on, others are a nightmare. Some can be a joy one day and a nightmare the next!! I have to adapt, and it has stood me in good stead. As is the unpredicatbility of horses, a 100% standardised exam situation for all is never going to be possible, but hard work is done to ensure it is as close as possible.

As I have already said, almost no system is perfect and of course people make mistakes. This is why the OP was encouraged to contact The BHS and ensure the standard exam procedure had been followed.


Huntley is going to be an enormous loss to the horse world.

 

[ReggieP]

I am very happy to report that this matter has been resolved with EQ Ltd. My daughter will be getting a chance to redo the riding module without charge. Once it got to the appropriate level in the origanisation EQ Ltd were excellent in dealing with the issue. Moreover they appear to be working on improving and documenting their procedures such that there is more clarity as to how these things should be dealt with , including better recording of the events when there are problems.

Thanks for all the interesting comments ;-)

 

[Tnavas]

I am very happy to report that this matter has been resolved with EQ Ltd. My daughter will be getting a chance to redo the riding module without charge. Once it got to the appropriate level in the origanisation EQ Ltd were excellent in dealing with the issue. Moreover they appear to be working on improving and documenting their procedures such that there is more clarity as to how these things should be dealt with , including better recording of the events when there are problems.

Thanks for all the interesting comments ;-)

Great news - best of luck for your daughter when she resits

 

[Honey08]

Very good. Fingers crossed for her. Let us know how she goes on.

 

[Happy H]

I think the best way to resolve your problem is to report to the examiners. You can't really hold the centre overly responsible - have you never got to a competition, started warming up and realised your horse is lame or not quite right and had to go home?

It is the examiners who need to request a new horse if they feel it is unsuitable / lame.

In my stage 3 exam, the person riding the horse before I rode it on the flat complained that the horse was unlevel as they couldn't get it to canter on the right lead and it wouldn't work properly from behind. I rode it fine and passed - it was not an easy horse by any means and was naturally on the forehand, but that's the whole point - anyone can get on a push button schoolmaster and do it - the examiners what to test you can properly ride any horse, not just a perfectly schooled one.

Also, a formal written complaint was put in about a jumping horse that had a run out and a stop. They said the horse was nowhere near the standard required and that was why it had a run out and a stop. Said horse had completed a 3* event two years prior (double clear) and was happily competing Pre-Novice eventing with it's owner that season. It was just a typical mare and if you rode it badly, it wouldn't jump.