Stallion keepers: Handling, Turnout, Companions

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I'm looking to find out more about stallion handling, what sorta turnout you allow your stallion and if your stallion accepts any companion horses or other animals

My OH competes a stallion who can be quite a handful at times. If he gets 1.5 to 2 hours or ridden work every day, he's a joy to handle but if he gets more than one day off in a row, the little(16'3 :P) monster appears. Its 100% excitement and not boldness that causes it so we've begun to look at the possibilities of turnout. He'll start to nip and bit but seems to form no connection between the bite and punisment. We've tried what articles say about disiplining stallions, loud noise to scare them, punching to simulate kicks, pinches to simulate bites, nothing seems to register with him. Even a crop is ignored but that could be because is almost always the threat of a crop rather than a slap from one.

Our lad lives in with very little to look at because Owner believes this is the only safe way for a stallion to live. On the other hand I know 2 stallion brothers who live out together fulltimw with no issues. Our Charlie has the utmost respect for electric fence, even a single strand, switched off is a strong barrier with him. Our arena(the only turnout he gets currently) buts onto a paddock that from time to time will have mares in it. When he's first turned out he'll focus on these but will quickly turn to foraging around the edges.

Myself and my OH want to 5 strand fence a paddock for him and start with small amounts of supervised turnout and then all going will, build up.... Thoughts???

Now we also have a 12hh welsh gelding who Charlie has gotten quite attached to and the attachment seems mutual. Would it be at all fesible to try introduce them? Or are the stallions who accept companions the exceptions to the rule? If it could be done, how would you introduce them in order to ensure the welshie isn't hurt?? They'll graze/forage away very happily on opposite sides of fencing, is this as far as it should go?

In conclusion to my ramble, he's not our stallion and its not our yard but the owner can be convinced to try things and while we're working with him we'd like charlie to be as happy and relaxed as possible for both him and us. Any and all help is very welcome :)
 
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with stallions they should be treated like any other horse they shouldnt be treated any differently just because they have the bits and peices left . as long as there is fencing to suit that stallion , then turnout shouldnt be a problem . the only thing i say try and keep mares away as far as possible and have more then electric fencing up to retain that stallion otherwise its a accident waiting to happen .
he should be ok going out with a gelding but what i would do is to introduce over so electric fencing and is showing no kind of aggershion ie ears flat back teeth barring etc ,the last thing you need is to put in with the stallion and the little one getting hurt just introduce like you would with a normal herd .
the more turnout he gets the better , i say this from experience as i use to handle a 16.2 tb stallion he didnt get much turnout ,and wasnt ridden due to owner being scared of him and along with everyone else . it was me that handled him everyday and he was a total nightmare (to a point he nearly killed me ) . till one day i fixed up fencing to retain him ,he started having daily turnout , and got to a point he was so easy to handle ,i actually broke him in . it does pay to treat a stallion like a normal horse ,not some caged animal
 
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I agree with the above really. Encourage turnout. At least while you are on the yard to keep an eye on him and ideally his days off and see how hit goes. Can't be any life stuck in a box.
 
I think it is very sad that stallions are sometimes treated so very differently to mares/geldings. Obviously you do have to be careful and make reasonable precautions but I do think if you can keep a stallion as naturally as possible you are less likely to have behavioural issues down the line.

My lovely retired competition gelding is currently a companion to a stunning young stallion, they live out together 24/7, and the stallion is treated just like any other horse. The owners are hoping to keep him entire and want him to lead as normal/sociable a life as possible which I think is admirable. My lad is doing a very good job of keeping this young stallion in line and is very much the boss!
 
My 6 year old appaloosa stallion is kept out 24/7 in his own (roughly 2 acre) paddock. I can get on and ride him any time, even with a two or three week break, and he is lovely to handle and ride (I backed him myself). He has his yearling gelding son and a 7 year old gelding next to him. He and the older gelding were in together for a couple of years when he was younger but as we started to use him for breeding the play got a little too boisterous and they were separated. Up until last May there was the son’s dam out there too. And over the road there are a herd of mares in shouting distance. He does not seem to mind them being about and it makes no difference if I ride him in the field next to the hedge with the mares the other side (as I did yesterday). He is happy to be ridden past them where he can see them over the fence - three of them being his own offspring (though that makes no difference with horses). Sometimes there is an added spring in his step and he may knicker softly but he knows his job.
I didn’t give him tidbits as a youngster, on the advice of an acquaintence, but now he asks ‘gently’ for ‘treats’ and strangely enough he has stopped biting me and seems to realise that it pays to be ‘nice’ to me - he loves Spillers Meadow Herb treats!
I have handled him since he was a 5 month old weanling, coming from France - with very little handling - so I think that helps. He is my best friend. He has covered in hand and has produced 8 foals so far, so he has his job to do - but he goes in the trailer and to a local stud to ‘do the business’ he doesn’t cover at home. I think this helps to separate his ‘duties’. He has now been trained to provide chilled semen and has taken that all in his stride - the people at the stud love him to bits too.
I agree that they should be treated like every other horse but just bear in mind that the fencing needs to be good as you never know, and it’s best not to invite trouble.
 
i agree theres no reason why stallions cant be turned out with proper fencing and without mares in sight.

HOWEVER it would be a very bad idea to turn out most stallions with a gelding or another stallion. Im sure there are exceptions but a lot would be aggressive towards others so id think very carefully before even considering this.

i suppose treat them as individuals, but putting them next to another horse for company rather than in with it might be a better solution.
 
burtonse said:
i agree theres no reason why stallions cant be turned out with proper fencing and without mares in sight.

HOWEVER it would be a very bad idea to turn out most stallions with a gelding or another stallion. Im sure there are exceptions but a lot would be aggressive towards others so id think very carefully before even considering this.

i suppose treat them as individuals, but putting them next to another horse for company rather than in with it might be a better solution.
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most stallions will generaly get on with geldings ,put another stallion or colt in then your asking for trouble
 
I know five stallions really well and all of them are happily turned out with a single gelding companion. All of them get at least 10 hours turnout a day and all of them do get left out 24/7 sometimes too.

As others have said, they are absolutly fine. Mares are however, kept as far away as possible.
 
i know of one stallion who is kept out during the day - brought in at night some times of the year. as long as there aren't in season mares about things are usually fine. some geldings are very stallion like in their presense/attitude, wise to keep these away from stallions too or there could be cause for fighting
 
i think its increidibly hard to say and depends massively on each horse, i used to look after either different stallions on one yard and would of said only one would of been suitable and safe to turnout with other horses but all went out in fields either opposite or next to fields with other horses in them and often mares, some would then be difficult to catch but all would settle and be fine in their fields, obviously with high fences and they were also spread fences so that they couldnt physcially touch each other

i do have a friend who has four horses, three young stallions and one old rig and all four are in the same field together with no problems and the stallions all cover they just dont fight or anything but i would say this is incredibly unusual

the stallion at my current job has had probably the worst and most unusualy upbringing ever virtually living in a stable for the first six years of its life prior to coming to us, its only in the last month or so that we have even been able to safely turn him out at all, he now has some speical pens that are tiny about 20m squares otherwise he would just gallop up and down the fence line and would not settle at all and become quite dangerous to himself, he now will turnout calmly and is quite happy to be out all day, there are other horses around his field not with in touching distance but he can see them, including mares and foals and he doesnt seem to bother the other horses dont seem to influecne his behaviour at all
 
All my boys go out in the field. My youngest is very submissive and goes out with the geldings.jr hadnt had turnout in a field for 6/7 years. He is now out 24/7 untill yesterday with his mares,now in a paddock on his own. And mouse my new baby, i just shut my eyes when he first went out, pleased to say he is fine now but none get titbits and all treated the same, if they get a bit cocky, a sharp dig usually works. But im very lucky as the older stallions came with super manners which i credit there previous handlers.
 
While I agree with the above nice and without question far more natural and kind lifestyle's for these stallions, I would STRONGLY advise people not to just go and turn out a stallion used to living alone with the nearest gelding. It is asking for trouble and for the gelding to get an absolute beating. It really does depend on the way the stallions have been brought up - if they are used to turnout with others from a young age, they will generally stay this way.

We have a variety of stallions here over the course of the season, they all vary, but I have to say most of ours do not suit extended periods of turnout during the covering season. Some of our boys are quite busy, the hormones run a lot higher and being a stud we do have mares around. Most will be happy for a little while, but they do then tend to start looking for girls! So they all have plenty of exercise and the turnout regime that suits them best (with very strong fencing!). I am of the firm belief that stallions should be treated as normal but with thought for the fact they are a stallion.
 
Touchwood said:
While I agree with the above nice and without question far more natural and kind lifestyle's for these stallions, I would STRONGLY advise people not to just go and turn out a stallion used to living alone with the nearest gelding. It is asking for trouble and for the gelding to get an absolute beating. It really does depend on the way the stallions have been brought up - if they are used to turnout with others from a young age, they will generally stay this way.

We have a variety of stallions here over the course of the season, they all vary, but I have to say most of ours do not suit extended periods of turnout during the covering season. Some of our boys are quite busy, the hormones run a lot higher and being a stud we do have mares around. Most will be happy for a little while, but they do then tend to start looking for girls! So they all have plenty of exercise and the turnout regime that suits them best (with very strong fencing!). I am of the firm belief that stallions should be treated as normal but with thought for the fact they are a stallion.
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Couldn't agree more!
 
I allowed an owner of a colt foal to turnout with my 2 yr old. This was fine until said colt turned 2, he then started covering my gelding, would fight and pin my gelding down by his neck. You have to be very careful who you put them out with. I would rather turnout alone than risk injury from fighting or showing off. I do believe they should be turned out, dealing with stallions that cover and have no turnout or ridden work is very dangerous. I know, having been there. A lot of TB stallions retire from racing and are kept in, only come out to cover. That is no life?
 
Ive worked at a few stud yards and none of them have treated a stallion any differently to any other horse, all were well behaved and calm around mares.

Every one got turn out with a gelding and some yards even had mares in the next field, although no touching due to a 2m walk though in between. but no problems.

If the stallion has things to keep him occupied and happy then he will be better to handle. If a gelding or a mare was kept inside 24/7 no turnout or work, it would be deemed curel, so why do it to stallions? who tend to be more switched on.
I know one stallion at a yard i took over as YM had there stallion in 24/7 due to him beening horrid to handle. I started a t/out routine for him, put him in work, gave him things to do. and guess what, you could lead him around like a lamb, even around mares, when he used to be a totally bully. a better life for every one (and safer)
 
I can only speak for myself, but I bred my boy and he stayed with the herd until the march of his second year (he turned two at the end of April) he was taken away during the summer and turned out with a gelding, but was back with his dam, auntie and another very dominate old mare from oct.
When he was two I had purchased a small shetland cross as a companion for him that was seven years ago and they are still together. Archie lives out 24/7 all year around rugged up after clipping and he uses his stable as a shelter coming and going as he pleases.He is ridden about 6 times a week schooled twice and hacked out, sometimes in company of a gelding, 3 to 4 times.He is competed from the field with no problems at all, except the mud of course. We do not have mares on the stud and we only do AI with Archie covering a dummy mare but he did cover naturally for his first two season.
I do think that it really does depend on the Stallion himself, with some living in company for their entire life, but I am quite prepared for Archie to show some aggression towards Noddy then they would be parted in fact I never leave them out together when I am off the stud, but choose to put noddy in a little paddock next to Archie so that they can still share a hay net or groom each other over the fence.
I would like to post a picture of them together but not sure how too, and would be a bit concerned that people would think I am advertising.
 
Rita I hope you don't mind, but this is the one you sent me of him with Noddy. I don't think you can be seen as advertising if someone else posts it :)

ArchiewithbestfriendNoddy-1.jpg
 
There are plenty of stallions on our yard, most of them are approved/licensed stallions, and they are ALL turned out regularly (every day, weather permitting )in individual paddocks.
 
Touchwood said:
While I agree with the above nice and without question far more natural and kind lifestyle's for these stallions, I would STRONGLY advise people not to just go and turn out a stallion used to living alone with the nearest gelding. It is asking for trouble and for the gelding to get an absolute beating. It really does depend on the way the stallions have been brought up - if they are used to turnout with others from a young age, they will generally stay this way.

We have a variety of stallions here over the course of the season, they all vary, but I have to say most of ours do not suit extended periods of turnout during the covering season. Some of our boys are quite busy, the hormones run a lot higher and being a stud we do have mares around. Most will be happy for a little while, but they do then tend to start looking for girls! So they all have plenty of exercise and the turnout regime that suits them best (with very strong fencing!). I am of the firm belief that stallions should be treated as normal but with thought for the fact they are a stallion.
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Totally agree.

The most important thing to remember about stallions is that there are ALL individuals BUT primarily they are governed by their senses.

Even the quietest, most docile of stallions can turn and although we strongly advocate treating them as "horses" , they also need respect and continuity.

We have stallions ranging from 16.3h RID to a 12.2h Sec C . They all get turnout on a regular basis (but less so during the covering season due to mares) . If for any reason one has a quiet season then we are mindful of this fact and try to remove them from the proximity of mares otherwise its unfair and asking for trouble)

We do not turn out with company although I do know of instances where this does work such as Avanti :) . Again a good example of stallions being individuals and continuity of handling.

Jane
 
The stallions where I work are all turned out daily. There are currently 11 and all get turned out between the 3 fields (minus the two colts who go out at night in different fields). They are turned out on their own, but can see other horses.

All horses are different, including the stallions. We've got some who can hack with mares and others who you can't walk past a mare unless the mare is at the back of it's box. It all goes on personality I believe.
 
i also knew a lady who kept her stallion in a field with a shetland but had the fences made so that the shetland could run out under the fence if the stallion was chasing it or anything but could go in and groom the stallion or whatever,
 
Where i work we have a 3 and a half year old 17.2hh stallion and he is huge... with the female yard staff he is a horror to turn out but with me and another male staff member he is an angel and respects us... he hasnt started to breed yet and he gets turned out everyday for about 5 hours with other horses in the next fields and he does do his usual of running up and down to check for the ladies but after that he does settle he has only ever been turned out on his own and he is great...the only bad thing is that he likes his sister which is very wrong... he is kept in a barn overnight with other horses in stables all around him so he isnt treated any different.
 
jon1210 said:
Where i work we have a 3 and a half year old 17.2hh stallion and he is huge... with the female yard staff he is a horror to turn out but with me and another male staff member he is an angel and respects us... he hasnt started to breed yet and he gets turned out everyday for about 5 hours with other horses in the next fields and he does do his usual of running up and down to check for the ladies but after that he does settle he has only ever been turned out on his own and he is great...the only bad thing is that he likes his sister which is very wrong... he is kept in a barn overnight with other horses in stables all around him so he isnt treated any different.
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I'm sorry jon1210, I dont know you and this isn't a personal attack and it may be that your female handlers fall into a category below however the inference that stallions somehow respect male handlers more than female handlers is very old fashioned.
There are good and bad male handlers just as there are good and bad female handlers.

Obviously there is the issue of human 'female hormones' which may or may not influence stallion behaviour, depending on your view point but I think human testosterone can be just as bad especially when it becomes a battle!

We are two females on our yard, my business partner being 5'1".Small in stature but big on experience with 30++ experience of professional equine and stallion handling.We have five stallions including a 16.3h RID and a TB (God forbid the National Stud get to hear of mere females handling stallions!!!). We take visiting stallions for A.I.training and we encounter very few problems.
 
My stallion is kept out 24/7 with his gelding companion and with mares in the adjoining field no problem. He is only 32 1/2" but still has hormones, he just knows how to respect them :)

occasionally he has been kept next to a section b stallion and has escaped once or twice into his field but just grazes next to him no problem!! Wouldnt hesitiate to allow them out together other than my stallion just couldnt eat all that grass!!
 
this video clip shows new forest stallions who live together in the winter getting turned out on to the winter grazing - they seem to get on fine together but i guess it depends on the temperment and how well socialised the stallions are these ones would have been well socialised as forest run stallions - however if they are not used to interacting with other horses then they may find it difficult at first.

http://www.youtube.com/user/nfstallions#p/a/u/1/L5BuF6jaIMU

it may also worth turning him out on to good grass when he is a hungry so he is more tempted to graze rather than run about too much - but then i suppose he is probably not used to grass if he gets no turnout so even grass may have to be introduced careful.
 
We have a lot of stallions here, some used for breeding and some not, and some not any more. They dont get turnout but are worked every day. They are stabled in barns with mares and geldings but never next door to a mare. And they are expected to work in the arenas with mares and not react.
But they are very strict with them and any silliness and displaying say by screaming or rearing is dealt with very swiftly. A lot of the grooms here are small and female so the stallions need to have enough manners that we can handle them safely. Its a shame they dont get turnout but with about 400 horses on the place, not much in the way of fields
 
Marchell said:
God forbid the National Stud get to hear of mere females handling stallions!!!
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LMAO!! This really made me chuckle!! Females seem to be perfectly capable of handling teasers and prepping yearling colts and working in training yards, but to work in the breeding shed/covering yard in this country is a real rarity - unless holding the mare, which is, IMHO, often the last place anyone wants to be!

They are far more forward thinking in the USA, where Sandy Hatfield has been the Stallion Manager at Three Chimneys Farm since I can remember.
 
Marchell said:
I'm sorry jon1210, I dont know you and this isn't a personal attack and it may be that your female handlers fall into a category below however the inference that stallions somehow respect male handlers more than female handlers is very old fashioned.
There are good and bad male handlers just as there are good and bad female handlers.

Obviously there is the issue of human 'female hormones' which may or may not influence stallion behaviour, depending on your view point but I think human testosterone can be just as bad especially when it becomes a battle!

We are two females on our yard, my business partner being 5'1".Small in stature but big on experience with 30++ experience of professional equine and stallion handling.We have five stallions including a 16.3h RID and a TB (God forbid the National Stud get to hear of mere females handling stallions!!!). We take visiting stallions for A.I.training and we encounter very few problems.
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I personally think its because they are tense when handling him and they are generally scared of him where as me and the other male member of staff still have our wits about us but we are generally more relaxed around him...
 
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