Stallion owners; How fussy are you about the quality of mares?

[PapaFrita]

Do you ever turn mares away on the basis of breeding/conformation? Do you accept all mares, no probs? Do you do anything to attract the owners of better quality mares or mares with an established competition record? Does it make a difference if a chap is a first season sire or established stallion? If your horse is purebred, will you only take purebred mares or have concessions?
Thanks

 

[southsidestud]

if my stallion stands at stud(to the public) i will be choosey who he is to cover i am shocked at the amount of studs that dont mind what the stallion covers it seems like some studs just care about the money side of things anybody correct me if im wrong

 

[Damien]

Know I don't think stallion onwers or studs just care about the money side of things, but I think if every stallion owner only allowed their stallions to cover mares that they would breed to themselves there would be any stallions standing at stud. LOL as producing a stallion is a very very expensive business unless you can do everything yourself, whcih some studs do.

Anyway I find it really interesting talking with people who cross breed, I know very little about showing and all the different types of horse that are bred in the UK. hacks, riding horses, hunters, heavy weight hunters, small hunters, etc etc etc its a mine feild to me, but generally the mare owner knows exactly what it is she has in mind and the reason for choosing a particular stallion, which might not be what we ourselves are breeding.

 

[htobago]

Just been talking about this on another thread. V good question PF!

I always ask for photos and pedigrees when mare owners request breedings to my stallion. And yes, I have turned down mares with conformation faults that in my view made them unsuitable for breeding. I've also said no to mares whose temperaments or pedigrees were incompatible with my stallion's.

My policy in my stallion's first season was to accept mares with decent basic conformation and 'quality'. He was lucky enough to get lots of top-class mares, but I also accepted some that were 'in need of improvement' in specific areas where he is particularly strong. Not big glaring conformation faults or very coarse, but for example mares that were say in need of refinement, or a more exotic Araby head, or more extravagant movement...

My boy is a pure-bred Arab, but I am very happy to accept non-Arab and part-bred mares. Arabs have always been used to refine and improve other breeds - this is one of their most important purposes in life, I think.

Yes, I did give concessions and discounts to high-class mares with good show records, etc. - although I didn't advertise this, just offered concessions when I was approached by breeders. I also gave some discounts to very nice people who I felt would give his foals really good, loving homes.

I also spent a lot of time talking to each breeder to find out exactly what they were hoping to breed, for what purpose, whether they had realistic expectations, etc. In some cases, I have turned down mares whose owners were specifically breeding for Endurance, as I felt they would do better to use a stallion with a proven track record in this discipline - basically where I felt that my 3yo unbacked stallion had not yet 'earned' the right to cover their mares!

 

[PapaFrita]

Thanks for that

Very interesting and informative answer.

 

[southsidestud]

[ QUOTE ]
Know I don't think stallion onwers or studs just care about the money side of things, but I think if every stallion owner only allowed their stallions to cover mares that they would breed to themselves there would be any stallions standing at stud. LOL as producing a stallion is a very very expensive business unless you can do everything yourself, whcih some studs do.

Anyway I find it really interesting talking with people who cross breed, I know very little about showing and all the different types of horse that are bred in the UK. hacks, riding horses, hunters, heavy weight hunters, small hunters, etc etc etc its a mine feild to me, but generally the mare owner knows exactly what it is she has in mind and the reason for choosing a particular stallion, which might not be what we ourselves are breeding.

[/ QUOTE ]yes good answer i can see you point of view but i still think some studs should have better standards ive seen some funny crosses

for me personally i wouldnt use mine on anymare hes been brought to use on my mares though if graded i would offer him to the public in the longterm but i would be choosey

 

[Anastasia]

Very interesting question PF.............I agree in whole with Opie but also agree with the other statements said.

We stand our stallions at public stud and ask a lot of questions about the mares before booking..........however.............sometimes what is said on the phone and what comes out the lorry/trailer can sometimes be two completely different horses......and its then not very easy to turn round and say anything.....unless you really dont worry about offending people.

We have turned away mares before, going on breeding and conformation etc, especially when covering in hand, as we have a minimum height restriction for a start. But that aside our stallions have produced some excellent foalies to mares we would not necessarily of bred from ourselves..........sometimes you never really know........breeding can be a lottery sometimes.

For instance in Holland some of the top stallions have around 300-400 covering certs issued and not all these mares will be the best, especially when you see some of the resulting offspring. However, this is the stallion owners business and for them they just send out the semen to whoever has paid for it, regardless of knowing the quality of the mare.......as all they will get is the details of the mare, not necessarily see her in the flesh or from a picture.

 

[PapaFrita]

Thanks for that

How can the AI stallion owners be sure which mare the semen is going to? Could a mare owner pretend they're going to use it for mare A, but in fact use it on mare B? Presumably the certificates have the mare's name on it?
What sort of height restrictions do you have? Is it relative to the height of the stallion? Is there an upper and lower limit?
Sorry for all the questions, but it is all most interesting

 

[vicijp]

Not really directly related to your question, but quite funny!
When I was deciding upon a stallion for my(*not mine, but kept/managed here) mare this year it came down to 2. I rang the one stud asking for the concession, very polite and seemed pleased to be having the mare to a first season stallion.
The second stud I rang to ask about a concession said 'we dont just take any old mare, whats her breeding?' I replied, 'by Welsh Term'. Could tell by this point they were thinking *WHO?!* They then said 'Oh, I dont think we can have that, did she manage to win any?' I replied 'Yes 4, rated 120 over fences.'
They then quickly backtracked and offered me a grand off. Needless to say I politely told them to get stuffed.
With an attitude like that, whos to say they wont get short of staff, and look after the mare better in the next box, who got lucky to win a selling hurdle but is by Presenting!

 

[magic104]

Thanks for that How can the AI stallion owners be sure which mare the semen is going to? Could a mare owner pretend they're going to use it for mare A, but in fact use it on mare B? Presumably the certificates have the mare's name on it?

Yes the mare details are recorded on the certificate, & only one cert is issued, no foals will be reg without the cert.

 

[htobago]

[ QUOTE ]
The second stud I rang to ask about a concession said 'we dont just take any old mare, whats her breeding?' I replied, 'by Welsh Term'. Could tell by this point they were thinking *WHO?!* They then said 'Oh, I dont think we can have that, did she manage to win any?' I replied 'Yes 4, rated 120 over fences.'
They then quickly backtracked and offered me a grand off. Needless to say I politely told them to get stuffed.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's shockingly rude!

Golly - I would NEVER be rude to anyone who enquired about using my boy! I absolutely hate having to say no, and desperately try to do it in a way that doesn't cause offence.

There was one Arab mare this year that I really didn't think was good enough. OK, I've accepted mares where the breeders were using Tobago to improve type and prettify heads and so on, but this mare was soooo off-type and coarse she looked like a Welsh Cob

(nothing wrong with Welsh Cobs, but an Arab should look like an Arab)

!

My breeding mentor/advisor wanted me to accept this one, and kept insisting that Tobago would massively improve on her, but for once I disobeyed - it was my stally's first season and I had to draw the line somewhere, especially as the mare owner was a barn-blind publicity-seeker, who would have shown the foal everywhere whether it was show quality or not!

But I managed to say no in such a way as not to cause any offence and certainly never made the owner feel that her mare was not good enough. That really would be unforgiveable IMO.

I did very gently try to steer her away from the idea of breeding an in-hand show Arab from this mare (however typey the stallion, this simply wasn't a realistic aim) and towards either breeding for Endurance (the mare had good conformation) and/or buying herself a show-bred youngster.

But I emphasised the mare's strengths rather than criticising her weak points. Last I heard, the owner was happily looking at Endurance sires, and talking about buying a yearling to show...

She was telling people proudly that she'd been told her mare had some of the best performance bloodlines ever, and that it would be a waste just to breed show horses from her!

I'm sure this is the way most stallion owners would do things.

At least I sincerely hope that the one who was so discourteous to you was an exception!

 

[vicijp]

Ive certainly never came across anything like it before.
The other stud is one of the biggest NH studs in the country, and she has just the one stallion(i think).
Go figure!

 

[Anastasia]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for that How can the AI stallion owners be sure which mare the semen is going to? Could a mare owner pretend they're going to use it for mare A, but in fact use it on mare B? Presumably the certificates have the mare's name on it? What sort of height restrictions do you have? Is it relative to the height of the stallion? Is there an upper and lower limit?
Sorry for all the questions, but it is all most interesting


[/ QUOTE ]

To answer the first part you would have the mares details and possibly a copy of her pedigree etc, however, just because of a good pedigree does not mean to say she is conformationally correct or has any deformaties.

For semen you could change your mind and inseminate another mare with it, the stud cannot say otherwise, but to get your insemination certificate and with DNA nowadays you would need to tell the stallion owner of the change.

For natural covering in hand we wont cover anything under 16hh (16.1hh preferable) purely because our stallion is around 17hh and it would be unfair on the mare, and safety of the mare and all concerned is our very important.

We dont have an upper limit but I have turned down mares I dont think are suitable, ie clydesdales or anything under 16hh.