Stallion Shopping

[ihatework]

I’m starting to look at Stallions for a specific mare and was hoping to pick the experienced brains on this forum! She won’t be bred next season, but possibly the year after – which should give me plenty of time to view the stallions at shows/stud open days, and hopefully research what they throw to specific types of mares.

The mare herself is 16.2hh, L-MW stamp, mixed breeding from Dallas line (SF/TB/ID primarily), graded SHB(GB). She is primarily jumping/event bred but as fate would have it has gone down the dressage lines. She has proven temperament, competitive ability and continued soundness and is now showing me (duffy amateur) the ropes at medium level.

I would like to replicate her type. I would like to retain her key attributes (temperament, good engine & activity, desire to work, soundness etc). If I were to be greedy/picky I would like to give her a bit more air time in her gaits, particularly the canter, improve her shoulder and refine her head slightly.

It is intended for the offspring to initially be pro produced into eventing (as that is where my interest lies), but with the potential for me to ride too down the line (although that would be more dressage).

For that reason I have decided that I wish to use a stallion that is primarily Jumping. However they must also move well and throw good moving uphill foals that could then have that duel purpose. There must be sufficient blood that offspring could go eventing (say 2* for want of argument). No huge/heavy dinosaurs – ideally circa 16.2hh and not known for throwing significantly bigger than themselves consistently. Attractive heads and throw a good topline. No greys.

I’ve been doing a bit of research and have recently come back from Germany where I managed to look at a few lines. I’ve added a couple of German horses to a long list, but it would be easier to go British if I could find the right one.

So far my list to explore includes:
Viscount (Germany – only fresh on limited mares at the moment, but may well be frozen by the time I need anyway)
Stalypso (Germany)
Embassy II (Germany – possibly a bit pricy, and he is one I didn’t get to see or see offspring)
Carentino Glory
No Limit
Broadstone Landmark
Carousel
Harlequin du Carel (maybe too big & don’t know how easy he is to get semen shipped?)
Billy Congo / Billy Mexico

Any thoughts on the above, or any ideas of stallions to add to the list?

 

[no_no_nanette]

Caretino Glory at Brendon Stud has been consistently throwing outstanding quality, and his offspring both move and jump, reflecting his SJ and dressage breeding. The first foal that I bred out of my ISH by Caretino Glory was a real refinement on the mare - both in terms of movement and correctness. He was also a lovely, sane and easily handled boy. There is something about this stallion, especially when you see him under saddle .... he has tremendous presence and that "look at me" air without being too sharp or difficult

 

[Audacity]

Have you thought of Forinth?

Also Broadstone Landmark only available frozen semen now as I read on Facebook that he had sadly been put to sleep last week.

 

[Hollycatt]

I would have to say a trakehner!

A trakehner such as Axis with duel talant at dressage and jumping would fit your needs nicely or to be honest I would also say his sire Sixtus who is an elite stallion, proven to produce top level eventers and dressage horses alike. He will definitely give better movement and refinement but he does not I think add too much height. You will have the ability to jump and event at top level, but also the movement to compete successfully at pure dressage. Axis is now competing GP but also scored well in his performance test at jumping. Both Axis and Sixtus are in Germany but with fresh cooled semen there is little problem. If you want to support British Breeding have a look at the trakehner standing in the UK - there are some lovely eventing bloodlines there - http://www.trakehners.uk.com/stallions/stallions_uk_2013.html You would also have a chance to look at some of the foals. The Trakehner UK annual show and grading is coming up in September so it may be worth going and having a look at what some of the British (and foreign) stallions are producing

 

[elijahasgal]

I think that I would be tempted to look more at what the stallions are throwing and meeting their youngsters.
It sounds like you want a sane and sensible, good quality allrounder

I would recommend a not so well known older stallion, Zenturio. I have had a couple by him, he was grade a international, advanced medium dressage, and several of his youngsters have gone to high level SJ and eventing, and believe me they move really nicely as well.....I got elite for SJ with one of his that I bred (Dreams of Zion if you want to look it up) with comments that he would also have got elite for Dressage had I put him in that as well xx
Oh and they all have fantastic, easy and loving temprements

http://www.findonstud.co.uk/

 

[eventrider23]

OK - of your list I would instantly lean towards Caretino Glory to give you excellent movement, blood and jump. I hear recently Dane Rawlins has 2 mares in foal for next year bred for dressage by him so he is certainly attracting dressage breeders. Carousel would be next on that list for me followed by No Limit.

Ones I would discount on your list would definitely be - Billy Mexico - LOVE this horse but blood he is not and he moves like a jumper - clean and correct but a definite show jumper. We have a foal here by him this year and he is very definitely like his dad. Billy Congo will give you jump definitely and is more blood than Mexico but again I wouldn't expect him to add more movement to your mare or give a true eventer. Harlequin likewise I would say too SJer.

 

[Deli]

Again would suggest Caretino Glory. Love so many of his foals. My foal is currently 12.2 at 3 months and is a good size, (he didn't actually refine my mare and the foal is a perfect SJ/event stamp).

Also, people say that using frozen isn't too much hassle but it is! I have found it so much harder to get them in foal and the cost is so much higher as need to be sent away. When I used caretino glory it was so easy it arrived in the post, was inseminated as vet came to us and she was pregnant so I would most definatly suggest using fresh/chilled if possible. Plus caretino glory comes with LFG, it makes the scans etc a little less stressful!

 

[ihatework]

Well Carentino Glory is on the must see list then, thanks guys.
It would be easier to go british, still very much drawn to stalypso though!
Trakhener isn't out of the question, I do like an intelligent horse so a good trak would certainly do me, but I find them a little hit & miss in performance sometimes. Graf was on a tentative list.

Interesting about the Billy boys, I kind of suspected as much from the video but you do see a few out eventing so would be good to know what mare types they went too.

And 2 new names thrown into the mix, will look up those boys.

 

[DonkeyClub]

What about Metall? He is known for his dressage -producing poweress but has a lot of good jumping lines in him and has actually produced a fair few 1m50 Showjumpers and international eventers. He is 40% thoroughbred and has a beautiful shoulder/neck/head.

Another one is VDL Boss, is a great jumper and has beautiful, loose floating paces. He looks very easy& the indoctro line has produced a lot of eventers. Plus he has some good thoroughbred lines in there too. The only thing is that his neck/ shoulder is a touch upright/short.

Ramexico ? Very uphill and really really move & jump, he has international SJ'ers and a lot of blood in his pedigree. They tend to be professional rides tho.

I think Graf could actually cross very well with a heavier mare, he really doesn't cross well with light mares & offspring look v ropey/lack top line but on strong mares the result looks great. But there is the rumoured temperament issues.

 

[TheMule]

Caretino Glory definitely has a presence about him and they seem to go out there and do the job no fuss.
How about Chilli Morning? He'd add a lot of the qualities you're looking for

 

[eventrider23]

Chilli Morning would indeed also add what you want. Also what about Duke of Hearts? http://futuresporthorses.co.uk/stallions/duke-of-hearts-xx/

Or a real up and comer - Sula Blue! TB stallion who moved really well in the dressage - super SJ on him - and a machine XC. Finished 4th at the British Intermediate Champs recently.

 

[ihatework]

Mental note made to look out for Chilli babies over next year or so!
Sula blue is a lovely fella, I met him at Gatcombe. Not out of the picture down the line for a 2nd foal but this first foal I don't want TB.
Ramexico I haven't liked the 2 I have seen (although granted only 2 and the mares were dubious)
VDL Boss looks nice, couldn't see a confo shot and given shoulder is one area I want to improve on if possible may be a bad match?
Metall is a no - I really do want jump lines that move rather than dressage that jump if that makes sense?

Has anyone got any views on Stalypso? I do keep coming back to him ...

 

[DonkeyClub]

There's a confo pic of VDL boss on sporthorsedata if you tap in Boss.

Stalypso does look lovely, very game and athletic. You can see he has a great temperament! I don't know those bloodlines tho so can't really comment.

Another one to consider ( tho he is dressage) is Voltucky- full brother to Vetcha and they reckon he has much more jumping ability than him, as he is much looser. Didn't jump for a career as his owner was into dressage but he trained at Grand Prix and is an incredible mover. Great temperament too , anyone can ride him& he hacks out on his own& is unflappable in heavy traffic .

 

[koeffee]

Aragon-s something different?!!!

 

[ihatework]

Aragon-s something different?!!!

I've not heard of him?
Quickly looked him up, not really my cup of tea I'm afraid, but keep the suggestions coming - it's always good to look at those that never cross your mind.

I'm more than happy for a stud fee circa 1K to get the quality I want

 

[Lark]

The one that immediately comes to mind is Balou du Rouet.
Very good looking progeny. He is has produced successful progeny across the board SJ, Eventing and Dressage. Dressage stallion son Bon Balou being one.
He also throws blood.

I love Mighty Magic too and the kids are very very pretty.

Kroongraaf is another one that throws both dressage and jumpers which are blood.

And then for bigger bucks Argentinus can throw absolutely beautiful movers but not too sure on the level of blood.

 

[sallyf]

I second the Balou du Rouet suggestion ,we have a lovely filly by him this year that is bred with eventing in mind but could do any job.
Stunning movement but very athletic and a fabulous temperament.
Happy to produce a pic of her if you would like to see.
We have used Check in and Cordess for next season as both are around 50% TB and have very good movement

 

[ihatework]

Balou du Rouet very much ticks a lot of boxes, and was on a long list. He is 171cm though which is taller than ideal - do you know what he tends to throw height wise? I'm having a little internal dilemma on him, as I would more than likely get a very blingy foal, and I'm trying to decide if that is what I want. The mare is very chromed up too! I'd be interested in seeing piccies of his forum offspring.

Mighty Magic is off the list, nice stallion but a friend had a poor experience with his semen.
Koongraff is nice enough, but not quite grabbing me - doesn't help that his stud page is a bit lacking!
Argentinus is a legend, but a bit chunky for what I want

Check-In & Cordess I'm not familiar with - Cordess is immediately out (grey!!) but Check In looks like a potential option so will do some research on him (would be interested in seeing foals out of different mare types if anyone has photos?). I'm coming back to the C-line a lot in reflection!

 

[Lark]

Balou du Rouet very much ticks a lot of boxes, and was on a long list. He is 171cm though which is taller than ideal - do you know what he tends to throw height wise? I'm having a little internal dilemma on him, as I would more than likely get a very blingy foal, and I'm trying to decide if that is what I want. The mare is very chromed up too! I'd be interested in seeing piccies of his forum offspring.

Mighty Magic is off the list, nice stallion but a friend had a poor experience with his semen.
Koongraff is nice enough, but not quite grabbing me - doesn't help that his stud page is a bit lacking!
Argentinus is a legend, but a bit chunky for what I want

Check-In & Cordess I'm not familiar with - Cordess is immediately out (grey!!) but Check In looks like a potential option so will do some research on him (would be interested in seeing foals out of different mare types if anyone has photos?). I'm coming back to the C-line a lot in reflection!

From my research the Balou's are actually quite handy size wise. We used him with a very big rangey mare with the intention that the foal would downsize slightly. Sadly she slipped it so I cannot confirm or deny
I know a few on here have fully grown Balou's so they will be well qualified to comment.

Balloon, his other stallion soon is also extremely good looking with fantastic movement and he is standing at 165cm.

Strange on the MM semen as our vet said it was very good. However he is deemed to throw leggy individuals anyway so wouldn't be ideal.

 

[sallyf]

Balou du Rouet very much ticks a lot of boxes, and was on a long list. He is 171cm though which is taller than ideal - do you know what he tends to throw height wise? I'm having a little internal dilemma on him, as I would more than likely get a very blingy foal, and I'm trying to decide if that is what I want. The mare is very chromed up too! I'd be interested in seeing piccies of his forum offspring.

Mighty Magic is off the list, nice stallion but a friend had a poor experience with his semen.
Koongraff is nice enough, but not quite grabbing me - doesn't help that his stud page is a bit lacking!
Argentinus is a legend, but a bit chunky for what I want

Check-In & Cordess I'm not familiar with - Cordess is immediately out (grey!!) but Check In looks like a potential option so will do some research on him (would be interested in seeing foals out of different mare types if anyone has photos?). I'm coming back to the C-line a lot in reflection!

Balou is not know for throwing big but yes you would most likely get bling .
I did and chestnut to boot but actually I realy like mine and it suits her personality.
Have seen a couple of Check in foals and throw a lot of quality with real movement.
He is also super fertile.
My 18 yr old mare took with twins to 1/2 a dose of his frozen and the chilled is fabulous too.
Balou also has fab fertility.
This is my Balou baby ,hopefully it wont get pulled

and another.

 

[Lark]

Balou is not know for throwing big but yes you would most likely get bling .
I did and chestnut to boot but actually I realy like mine and it suits her personality.
Have seen a couple of Check in foals and throw a lot of quality with real movement.
He is also super fertile.
My 18 yr old mare took with twins to 1/2 a dose of his frozen and the chilled is fabulous too.
Balou also has fab fertility.
This is my Balou baby ,hopefully it wont get pulled

and another.

Gorgeous foal

 

[sallyf]

Gorgeous foal

Thanks we are very pleased with her

 

[millitiger]

Balou du Rouet very much ticks a lot of boxes, and was on a long list. He is 171cm though which is taller than ideal - do you know what he tends to throw height wise? I'm having a little internal dilemma on him, as I would more than likely get a very blingy foal, and I'm trying to decide if that is what I want. The mare is very chromed up too! I'd be interested in seeing piccies of his forum offspring.

If you are worried about height I would second the suggestion of Balloon; super model with a really great jump, really modern and moves very well too.

I used him on my tb mare but unfortunately she didn't take so I switched to a resident stallion- I think I may try him again next year though as I really want a Balloon foal.

 

[eventrider23]

I would use Balloon in a shot!

 

[shirleyno2]

Caretino Glory loves being seen in the flesh!! Though by 2015 who knows what'll be where by then, hopefully lots of new blood in the Country by then!!!!

 

[sywell]

I would suggest you look at what the up and coming stallions are and not ones that are popular in the UK. Chilled semen from top stallions can be had overnight post for 600 Euros excluding p and p. Size is a difficult issue my experience is that there is a tendancy for mares that have had a number of foals to have bigger ones but it would be interedting to hear others comments. The results from the WBFSH 7 year old young horse event championships can give an indication what way things are going in realation to the changing nature of eventing.

 

[HBM1]

I would suggest you look at what the up and coming stallions are and not ones that are popular in the UK.

I am so disappointed by this statement! Could you not have said "not JUST ones that are popular in the UK" ? Why rule out all horses popular in the UK? I would have hoped that someone with responsibility within a studbook would have been far more active in promoting British stallions than this.

 

[ihatework]

I am so disappointed by this statement! Could you not have said "not JUST ones that are popular in the UK" ? Why rule out all horses popular in the UK? I would have hoped that someone with responsibility within a studbook would have been far more active in promoting British stallions than this.

I too do not know how to best interpret that comment.
Have I given any impression that I would only use a british stallion? No - I have just come back from Germany!!
Have I given the impression I wouldn't use an up and coming stallion? I have included Viscount in my list!

I'm on the start of a journey here. I would like to support british breeding if I can, but equally would have no hesitation to go continental if it were the right stallion.

Sywell - do you have specific suggestions of stallions you think I should look more closely at?