Stallion Suggestions please

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ColouredFan

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Hi,

I am posting on behalf of my friend. She is a very experienced horselady and has (when younger) helped over 40 mares foal, the help is needed in choosing the stallion.

Her dauguter has outgrown her 13.2 welsh pony and although she has been replaced with a larger speedier model they do not want to sell her and would like to try and breed for the daughters next horse.

The mare is lovely, so sweet and honest, she has previously had a foal. She does a nice dressage test, carefull show jumping and very bold and well mannered hunting. She generally has good conformation expect her feet, they are a bit flat and can be flakey however they dont seem to have had any problems keeping shoes on her.

They want to breed something that will be an all rounder for PC teams perhaps low level eventing and would like the horse to mature between 15-15.3 difficult to guestimate I know. and finally they want it to be coloured so I have suggested they choose a stallion that is homozygous.

So far on their short list they had Master harleyquin, and Miley, since I mentioned the homozyous gene they decided that this was the route they wanted to take. I have suggested Ringo and Sempers Spirt, would they suit this kind of mare and does anyone else have any other suggestions?
 
13.2hh mare to potentially have a horse upto 15.3hh? Surely that would mean a stallion approx 16.2hh? Isn't that too big for a pony?? But I have heard great things about Sempers Spirit and Miley.
 
My 13.2 mare went to a 15.2 stallion and got a 14.2 youngster. This is before I had her. I think they say no more than 2 hh bigger, don't they?
 
Our stallion, Greenvale Audacity was put to a similar type mare last year by AI with intention of breeding something bigger than mare. Estimation is that foal will mature about 14.2hh/15hhs which from experience with my welsh pony is a large enough foal for mare.
 
Just out of interest how old is the girl now? Just thinking that it will be 5yrs before the offspring it out & about. Depending on how tall the daughter is, she may well be too big for this offspring. Height is a real gamble, I have a 16.1hh ex of a 15hh mare, sire was 16.1, yet a 15.3hh mare put to a 16.1hh has produced a colt who is only 15hh at 3yrs.
 
we have a Homozygous English 7/8th TB stallion standing in North Yorks he is the only grandson in the world of a Puissance winner at Hoys he is by our stallion who is 16.3hh out of a 13.3hh mare and he is aleady 15.2hh and is only three. please PM me if you are interested.
 
I seriously would not recommend that much height difference, I put a 15.2 to a 16.1hh and even that foal was big enough to tear a bit of cervix, and produce a heamatoma.. Thankfully mare is fine now, but if i ever wanted to breed from her again I would have to only consider 16hh max stallions or 16.1 stallions with same height ancestory, my mares g sire is 16.3 and the stallions' sire is 17hh.

I think it would be reckless to put a 13.2 to a 16.2, sorry only my opinion, but as said earlier it will be 4 years plus gestation before the foal will be out doing anything, by which stage kids grow like weeds and could it be that the child will already then be needing 16hh plus??
 
i would also think it would be a bit risky.
and possibly futile as in 5 years time the girl could need something much bigger!plus if shes outgrown the horse now, what will she ride in the meantime?
id suggest they buy something!
 
It is a real gamble when breeding for height, I've put 15.3Hh tb to 16.2Hh friesian and have 17Hh babies, but it can work the other way, the foal can take after one or other parent, so you could end up with a foal that ends up the same height as the mum.
Also foal size is dictated by the size of the mares uterus - so height of stallion has no effect on size of foal, it's an old wives tail, there is only so much space, once the maximum size is reached and the oxygen levels start to exceed what the mare can provide, it distresses the foal which releases hormones that trigger labour.
I would consider size of stallion a problem only from a covering point of view and damage to the mares reproductive tract, also from a weight point of view if you say put a shire to a shetland - the shetland is going to get skewered and squashed!!!
What does affect the foal size is the nutrition the mare has, or if she is an older mare that has had lots of foals the uterus is larger therefore foal can be no matter what stallion she is put to. And fitness of mare - a toned race mare will have physically less room for a foal than a mare that has sat in a field eating for years!
I would be more worried by how chunky the stallion is on a fine mare - eg. I wouldn't personally put an 11 inch bone percheron to a very fine show arab as that could potentially end up with a very chunky foal - depends on the breed though as some of the heavier breeds like the friesian are actually very fine boned when born.

Has your friend thought about the fact the foal is going to take at least 6 years, including the year in-utero, before the child can compete it, by which time she will most likely have out grown it ... or discovered fashion!!
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Maybe buying a youngster and driving the little mare instead - will be a cheaper option too!
 
Thank you everyone for your feedback, I will pass this onto my friend. In answer to some of the questions the daughter is 13 and is tiny, he weighs less than 5 stone, she is never going to be very big hence the idea of wanting something 15hh-15.3, she wont be taller or heavier than me and my 15.1 has competed at intermediate BE so I dont think the off spring will be too small so long as it makes over 14.2. If it didnt I guess they would have to sell.

They have bought another pony for her to ride and compete at the moment and they wanted to breed from the mare as they dont want to sell her. They own their own land and stables and as I said before the mother has helped alot of mares foaling (she helped with the birth of my own foal).

Obviously they want to try and breed something as suitable for their needs as possible as I outlined above. We all know breeding isnt the easy option and buying a youngster would probably be a better idea!!

Thanks for the sugggestions, keep them coming!!!
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Thanks Alexart that was very useful, I would also add that it is advised not to go any bigger than 2 1/2 hh bigger for a maiden mare, when I bought my now 13.3hh she was 14.2hh and over the years has shrunk.
But I didnt feel the need to fully go in to details on here as it takes up more time than needed,
Thank you so much for your wisdom
 
Well of the homozygous stallions out there, I have used both Sempers Spirit and Ringo. Spirit would keep the size down more than Ringo who can throw quite big. He is also slightly less heavy in bone and type so I think sounds a better match for your friends pony and hopefully she'd get something 15-15.2hh from the cross, but as you know you can never tell.
 
Baydale rides a coloured out of a connie mare by Ringo, and he is fab! He is about 15.1, jumps beautifully and is like a rubber ball
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So I would look at Ringo!
 
Great thank you, I will make that suggestion to her, I did mention him previously due to the lovely banannamans Spider, I forgot about the one Baydale rides
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Now, I am a complete breeding dense.... but I know that Bean's dam was 14.2hh or under, as she was a registered riding pony. Her trakehner sire was 16.2hh. I have no idea what happened to the mare, but B was just scraping 15hh at the withers. I had always been taught that mare's size has more to do with it? Is that right??
 
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