Stallions on DIY Yards

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CobRambler

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Hi All
Am hoping to gather some insight on peoples opinions regarding stallions being kept on a DIY yard.
I am currently in a rather desperate situation trying to move my horses onto another yard as our current yard is being leased, so they would like us all to remain plus what the new manager is bringing onsite.
The new person is moving in with 2 x 17hh warmblood stallions.
I do not have a problem with stallions at all but I don't think we are equipped for them.
We currently have electric rope fencing with is about 4ft high on all our fields.
We have all wooden stables and the one fairly small sand school.
The big worry I have is that these stallions are used to cover naturally.
The new manager is coming with 10 broodmares and youngstock at foot this weekend (so no current liveries have had any form of notice period).
We know that the stallions are turned out at points during the day. All mare owners have to move to the other end of the yard (sensible).
When the stallions are to cover her mares and paying clients they will use the sand school, so it will be out of bounds. The problem with the school is it is small and only has tape round the posts as a barrier and a sliding wooden pole as a gate about 3ft.
We are just a standard small DIY yard, which many of us feel is just not equipped for this.
Could I have your opinions please as to whether I am being over the top or whether if your horses where in this yard if you would also be worried and moving.

Tea & Biscuits for anyone who read this far
 
I imagine the stallions' owner will be just as keen to keep them safe as you are your horse(s) and will have assessed the risks before moving onto the yard. If you assess the risks differently then you can approach the YO or move. I suspect that the YO will prefer to hang on to someone leasing a large part of the yard than a livery though.
 
I know that lots of people say "my stallion is good as gold and won't hurt a fly, etc. etc." I know there are nice quiet stallions, I have driven a pair, a stallion and a gelding and many are really well behaved and well handled.

However ............. I think stallions should be in brick stables and have a substantial fence between them and other horses unless they are supposed to be running out with the mares.

Stallions sometimes do turn nasty - stories I have heard of a stallion going through fences to attack a gelding, stallions saving mare after service, and only yesterday there was a sad report of a stallion that had broken into a field of mares and killed one.

So there really do need to be precautions in place. A good stallion owner will take all these worries into account, and obviously if their horses are valuable they will want everything to be safe and secure.
 
I can understand your concerns but I do honestly think that a lot of people worry a little too much about stallions - mainly due to the fact that not everyone handles them day to day.

I am a stallion owner (not on a livery yard) and I also have mares. I also help out at a very busy stud.

My own stallion hasn't done any covering yet but he will be doing next year - I can quite happily walk him past my mares when they are in season and I also ride him out around the lanes where there are fields full of mares in season - he is well behaved at all times and doesn't turn into a rampaging beast just because he smells a mare. Over at the stud I still keep the covering stallions excercised through summer and winter.

They know when the are 'doing the business' and when they are working and behave accordingly. They also have regular turn out and during covering season are more interested in stuffing their faces with grass than getting to a mare but we do always make sure that there is at least one empty field between stallions and mares.

I think if you wait and see when the stallions arrive and see how they behave - if they are out of control/unsafe or it looks as if they may be then you have some genuine concerns - the safety of you and your horse.
 
I have been on 3 DIY yards with stallions, and there has never been a problem.

Perhaps the new person is going to improve the fencing as part of the deal?

ETS your fencing doesn't actually sound any different from the stuff on my last yard
 
If they are part of her business, she is going to want to ensure they are safe too. My stallion is kept on a DIY yard (the owner has two there also). He has never been a problem (he is four and not yet covered). One of hers has though and he knows when it is time to cover and when it isn't. Many stallions also go to competitions or shows where there are mares around and have to know when to behave. My boy went to his first competition recently, a lady unloaded her mare right next to him and he didn't bat an eyelid, mostly I think because he is used to mares and geldings a the yard. Yes he calls to them when he feels like it, but he doesn't do anything else. You may find she has already put plans in place to make them turnout pens when she arrives. Mine is in a wooden lodden box too, never been a problem.

I am not going to say all stallions are brilliant and well behaved because some won't have been well managed, but if hers are used at stud and she has that many broodmares, I would imagine hers are well-behaved and used to having manners around them.

I am more worried about bad mannered mares and geldings, than a well-mannered stallion.
 
I wouldn't be in panic mode just yet. The owner of 2 large stallions and a band of broodmares and followers will know what they are doing. I kept my stallion on a big DIY yard all his life, he had visiting mares and also mares stabled all round him. My own mare lived on the yard and when she was in season and staring at him all day he hid in his box! I actually found the most irritating things was that people would tie horses to his door to groom and then get ticky when he came over all chatty. It will be lovely having mares and foals about.
 
Thanks for the replies.
Sadly there won't be any improvements to the yard currently or the fencing as it is felt sufficent. Which is why I wasn't sure if I was being a bit over the top with my concerns.
The nicest way I can put it, is some of us on the yard don't feel that this is the most professional breeder.
When the stallions are covering our horses will be in the vicinity of it, as the school is in the middlle of the yard with the stables around it.
I think it is sensible that all mares are moved and confined to one end of the yard, as the manager does not want to have to walk either of her stallions past them to get to the school, even if they are in stables.
I guess my big worry is if the covering goes wrong or if they should get loose in some way as electric tape in my opinion is not really the best fencing.
I did try approaching them to discuss concerns but it didn't go that great, was rather one sided but there you go.
I really don't mind stallions but not sure a regular sort of run down DIY yard is where they should be housed. I would probably be less concerned if they were not going to be covering in the middle of the yard wiith their mares and any other clients that want to bring there mare in for servicing.
I think I am paranoid lol
 
What makes you think she "isn't the most professional breeder" - do you have direct proof of this, or reasons for thinking so? Having a boy end and a girl end of the yard makes sense, we have that also. Mostly to prevent thoughtless mare owners tying up their in-season mare outside the boys' stables and walking off and leaving them!

As we are at the end of the season too now I can't imagine there will be that much covering going on anyway?
 
I think perhaps the stress and concerns I had have got to me as I don't want to be unfair hence the thread.
The stallions used are not registered or affiliated with any society as one failed and the other was never put through. I don't know much about breeding put thought it was important and helped if they where in a stud. Book.
The young stock don't really sell much and if they do is around a thousand.
I have little experience with stallions and always thought when used they where on the posh type of yards.
I do know they move yard quite a bit this will be third lease in 2 years.
Like I say I probably have got to wound up over this and my lack of knowledge has made me a. Paranoid dragon lady.
 
I read that last post and thought "oh, you're more worried about them bringing down the tone of the yard". Then I re-read your previous disparaging comments about the yard facilities. I realised that you are apparently satisfied with the yard facilities or you wouldn't be making such a fuss about the new customers.

Frankly I'm lost. You just seem to want to have a go about the new people. I really do hope they aren't regulars on here or it could all be very awkward.
 
I would move yards, I have no problem with stallions as i have handled and worked with them over the years, personally I don't think there is a place for them on a DIY yard unless they have separate stabling, mainly due to the rest of the liveries not respecting the space around stallions .

decent fencing is a must-post and rail and electric,

what many people forget is mare are entire too and stallions being on a yard can really upset mares. I think there is a bit of a fad with people trying to keep stallions entire when it is not always in the best interest of the stallion and facilities are not what they should be.
 
Good point Twiggy, I don't think it's the only reason, but my mare is a lot happier off a yard with a stallion.

I won't have her near one again if I can help it.
 
I'd be worried if I was the OP. Why have they moved so much if they are good customers? Why are they breeding from a stallion that failed grading? Why are they breeding foals that dont sell, particually in the current market? It seems to show a lack of economic sense and I'd worry about what other bad decisions they might make.
 
jemima*askin said:
I read that last post and thought "oh, you're more worried about them bringing down the tone of the yard". Then I re-read your previous disparaging comments about the yard facilities. I realised that you are apparently satisfied with the yard facilities or you wouldn't be making such a fuss about the new customers.

Frankly I'm lost. You just seem to want to have a go about the new people. I really do hope they aren't regulars on here or it could all be very awkward.
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It really is not meant to be coming across in that way. I really was not sure whether stallions work with DIY yards as I have never been in the position.
From what I thought I guess I imagined stallions breeding on the perfect stud sort of thing post and rail lush grass all that kind of thing.
As others have said they wouldn't panic about it. I did feel my lack of understanding breeding and stallions on yards is probably the root of me being worried and stressed about it.
 
But you only have one side of this and don't know any of it to be true? From being worried about stallions on diy yards, this breeder has now been turned into a breeder of crap ? My how forums can ruin a person. Someone has to be issuing covering certs for the foals..
 
CobRambler said:
I do not have a problem with stallions at all but I don't think we are equipped for them.
We currently have electric rope fencing with is about 4ft high on all our fields.
We have all wooden stables and the one fairly small sand school.
The big worry I have is that these stallions are used to cover naturally.
The new manager is coming with 10 broodmares and youngstock at foot this weekend (so no current liveries have had any form of notice period).
We know that the stallions are turned out at points during the day. All mare owners have to move to the other end of the yard (sensible).
When the stallions are to cover her mares and paying clients they will use the sand school, so it will be out of bounds. The problem with the school is it is small and only has tape round the posts as a barrier and a sliding wooden pole as a gate about 3ft.
We are just a standard small DIY yard, which many of us feel is just not equipped for this.
Could I have your opinions please as to whether I am being over the top or whether if your horses where in this yard if you would also be worried and moving.
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Sorry but I think I would be moving. You are right, your yard is not equipped. From what you say it is only a matter of time before a stallion breaks loose, or runs off and another liveries horse is injured. Stallions need firm, positive, confiident and above all responsible handling. If either handler or yard owner/staff do not have these attributes then the situation could become very dangerous.

So okay, stallions are not lions ready to prey on anything that moves. But they are, like most men (lol) ruled by testosterone, which is a heady mix of hormones and inability to listen - very much like men actually ha ha. :)


I'd also question whether your yard owner is being fair to exclude the use of the sand school whilst coverings are taking place. Does this inconvenience mean you will get a recuction on your rent? Will the covering take place only in quiet times of the day when the school wouldn't otherwise be used? The electric fencing doesn't sound very secure, and maybe a double strip of fencing would be more beneficial i.e electric fencing with anther strip of electric fencing with a gap of six foot in between for added security.

Furthermore your yard owner sounds like she/he is being inconsiderate by not informing you that this was going to happen until a couple of days before. I suspect he/she has done this in order to prevent her from getting a load of complaints which are, in my opinion, totally justified. Of course the more complaints she gets the more probable it is that she would have to rethink the whole thing. I think if it were me I would see how things panned out if I were certain that my horse wasn't at risk. In the meantime I think you and other liveries should get together to try and work out the best way to tackle speaking to the YO about the situation. Remember there is strength in numbers and your view point will be taken into consdieration more readily if you can come up with a workable compromise to ensure that the horses curently at the yard are safeguarded to ensure that they are not harmed as a result of these stallions being liveried on the premises. The YO needs to also assess who is best able to deal with the turn out or day to day contact of these stallions if the owners cannot be there to attend to them. THere is not much use expecting a young teenage girl who can't hold a shetland pony without trembling to deal with a large and upredictable and excitable stallion and a risk assessment should be put in place to guard against any injuries from occuring as well as well as some kind of strategy for managing the situation should one of the stallions break through the fencing and get loose.

As I said before if it were me I would be very upset and annoyed that I (as an existing and loyal livery) had not been consulted (lack of communication is a major bug bear of mine with YO's) and I would be tempted to leave but would see how things panned out so long as my horse was not at risk.

I don't know anything about stallions or breeding though so I am probably not qualified to comment, but I do know all about being a livery and so am able to comment on this.
 
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Thank you for your options and replies they are much appreciated.
I feel the best option for me and my horses weighing up all advice, is to move my lot to another yard
Thanks again
 
twiggy2 said:
I would move yards, I have no problem with stallions as i have handled and worked with them over the years, personally I don't think there is a place for them on a DIY yard unless they have separate stabling, mainly due to the rest of the liveries not respecting the space around stallions .

decent fencing is a must-post and rail and electric,

what many people forget is mare are entire too and stallions being on a yard can really upset mares. I think there is a bit of a fad with people trying to keep stallions entire when it is not always in the best interest of the stallion and facilities are not what they should be.
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I too think people can rush into buying stallions, because they are caught up in some kind of fantasy of how they will be. Yes they may look and move nicely and they look the 'part' and people can see themselves sat astride a stallion with everyone else looking on in awe and envy as the horse does some amazing party tricks down the centre line but I would hazard a guess that this is where the dream ends, and the reality is nothing like.

On my old yard there was talk of having a young stallion move onto our yard and a lot of people were very worried about the possibility of this happening and how the horse (who would be owned by someone not very experienced in stallions) would be managed on a day to day basis.
 
I actually wouldn't own a stallion unless for future breeding purposes. I do understand what you mean about maybe someone wanting one to look pretty when riding - though personally I have never met anyone who has one for that reason - many also breed their stallions (as I did) - if he was at all difficult, or couldn't handle his testosterone growing up, he would have been gelded. This lady may be in the same situation? No one knows..personally, if I was the op, I would give it a few months or even weeks to see how things are. As I said before not much covering will happen at the moment.
 
HBM1 said:
But you only have one side of this and don't know any of it to be true? From being worried about stallions on diy yards, this breeder has now been turned into a breeder of crap ? My how forums can ruin a person. Someone has to be issuing covering certs for the foals..
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I know nothing about foaling Certs same as I know virtually nothing about breeding.
I have re read my post and realised I put it badly. I was trying to explain why I felt they were not the best of breeders. Again a lot of what I said is hearsay from previous yards they have been on. Perhaps I have put to much stock in what they have said. I don't doubt that my lack of knowledge and understanding of breeding is the cause for my concern. As I say not knowing about something I was under the impression that stallions that are used are registered some how however wrong or misguided that maybe and being told that these were not I thought the worse as did some of the others faced with the situation.
We did try to talk to them but moving is stressful perhaps once moved in would be better.
 
Just to add, some geldings get upset too. My boy is protective over his mares (even though he's not in a field with them) and hates it when other geldings go near them. Upon meeting a breeding stallion at a show he proceeded to puff himself up, walk on his tippy toes and have a big arched neck.

Whilst not all geldings are like this, some do still see themselves as 'stallions' and may become grumpy or out of character.
 
Ive just had my stallion cut because I was sick of this, he is the softest soppiest git going, unless walked in hand when he gets away with himself becomes strong and bolshy but respects his electric fencing, but because he was a *stallion* that meant he must be trouble, I got sick to death with phone calls about him and people even got the point of calling my YO and saying he was out, but my husband was standing in the field with him?? Its been a month now, I cant wait until he has the all clear and can be turned out with my mares eventually, no more stallion hassle from people not the horse....
 
I wouldn't have a mare unless it was for breeding purposes.

A well behaved stallion is a good deal more reliable than a 'marish' mare.
 
Loved my little stally, produced a lovely coloured foal this year, he's a brute, but in a good way, never in a year got to anything, but yet he was so much hassle, I have more trouble from my 2 mares than him!

Shame, but at least now I can do more with him without people hiding from this horrible 14hh stallion! LOL
 
pennyturner said:
I wouldn't have a mare unless it was for breeding purposes.

A well behaved stallion is a good deal more reliable than a 'marish' mare.
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I've ridden at stables in countries where gelding is the exception that were entirly staffed by stallions as mares are 'too much trouble.' As applecart sugests I didn't suddenly start pulling amazing dressage moves :(
 
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Sorry Applecart, I didn't mean to upset you. I took you to mean that people get caught up in this dream of owning an amazing horse and pulling fantastic moves and everything being great, but that in reality the horse is often more work than they had expected, and that at the end of the day a brilliant performance doesnt come from a horses balls. I meant to kind of referance the last part of that. Please except this apology.
 
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