Stallions...

H

henryhorn

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Just followed a link to pleasure prints .co.uk and wandered on to the shows they covered, amongst them was the SHGB stallion grading at Addington I think?
Each stallion gets two pages of in hand flat work then jumping pics, and a couple of them are diabolical!!!
One stallion has such sloping pasterns I'm astonished they put it forward..
I know our own's faults, and we try to remove them in the mare's we use, but looking at some of those pics perhaps I better had attempt to grade him...(despite it being totally against my former posts..)
Is it me? Go and have a look..there are some nice ones too but a couple of them made my jaw drop...
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Ooooh I like Opposition Bombshell!!
Chilli Morning looks super smart too. Primitive Star has a lot of presence.

There are a few I def dont like!
 
Interesting, thanks for pointing in the right direction.
I have to say the overall standard of stallions presented is pretty poor (bar a couple) !!
Does anyone know the results?
I looked at SHB(GB) webby which is not up to date, however from last autumn they only passed 2 out of 21 presented, so hopefully they will have been stringent this time too!
 
I had no idea Primative Star was grey!!
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Now then I know absolutely nothing about conformation, but is it just me or is P.S shoulder....odd?

I'm bored and feeling observant!
 
The photos dont mean they passed Chilli morning is on pics from the Autumn and spring grading and failed both times apparently,
You need to check the SHB website for the ones that passed as there were not many that did.
 
good for them for not passing stuff that wasn't up to scratch

another point for only breeding from graded stallions - but the people who put forward stallions that failed will still stand them at stud - which is bad for british breeding overall

somehow - without involving DEFRA - we need to stop stallions standing at stud that have patently failed grading inspections more than once (accepting that horses have good and bad days so give 'em a couple of tries perhaps....)

so Hhorn - go and get your boy graded !!
 
05/06/2007

The results, going from Updated graded stallions list on SHB-GB webpage

UPTONS DELI CIRCUS - fail
CAMILLS JACK - fail
COOLDANZ - fail
WELTON DOUBLE CRACKER - pass
MAXIMILLIAN MAALI - pass
MFSS RAUBRITTER - pass
FOXCOURT ANDANTE - pass
CVS BELLAGIO - fail
POCAGE MARBLESIEN - fail
CHILLI MORNING - fail
TREVOULTER STORM - fail
OPPOSITION BOMBSHELL - fail
MIDNIGHT MAN - Pass (I think listed as Mignight Man II on SHB)
CVS HOT BUSINESS - fail
HIGH OFFLEY ARTURO 9 - fail
SHANNONDALE DELTA - fail
PUZZLES WORK OF ART - fail
CHEMIN DE FER 11 - fail
HOLME PARK KALIBRE - fail
PRIMITIVE STAR - fail
TULLABEG ROLLERCOASTER - fail

05/06/2007
 
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Thanks - I wassurprised not to see Primitive Star so good to hear he should be on there! Odd they've half updated it 'tho.
 
It would be so nice to see a full printout of all the stallion grading sheets to see just what got them to pass/fail

If those were published they could act as a 'training' for people looking for a stallion that haven't necessarily got an 'eye' for a horse

so if they published the grading and comments then stallions that passed and those that failed it would highlight the good and bad points of the stallions

this would also help mare owners that need assistance in picking a stllion to complement their mare

i.e. something that has upright pasterns or lacks bone in the mare would benefit from a grading form that shows a stallion that passed had good bone, or excellent pasterns or whatever.

come on grading societies - post the full grading forms with comments !!!!
 
The SHB(GB) give the stallion owners their stallions grading sheets with their marks, the AES def. dont and I dont know if they use a 'points' system and score each animal, I just think they discuss it.

Trouble with many gradings are I think they're cliquey, a who you know or who you are job.
 
well - I'm certainly not in any clique as I breed in a very small way - yet I can and have managed to get all my stock graded at the first attempt with the appropriate breed society.

in one case despite one of the two graders having a 'thing' about my foals gransire and one of his front legs !!!
 
Wish breed societies here would take grading a little more seriously... as they do in Germany it would certainly raise the bar!

One stallion who passed listed above was lame for over 7 months last year and is known to be intermitantly lame on a regular basis and just seems to have 'weak' legs!!

Get the timing right and you pass!???????????

They should be put through many days rigourous testing to pass!

And quite honestly why shouldn't past probelms have to be declared and throughly considered to pass???
 
yep ... everything... including checking they are fertile and clean!!

afterall it is stallion grading... don't know what is a matter with them myself... seems clueless??

P.S. Has anyone seen any stock by Showmaker yet?? Thinking of using him this year.. he seems very promising indeed.
 
The Scottish Sports Horse do both stallion and mare/youngstock gradings every year. Have done for a considerable amount of years now.

Of the stallions forward for grading this year only 9 passed the grading AND x-rays (which are now mandatory). The whole grading process and x-raying is done along the same lines as the KWPN, as the x-ray company was Dutch and are used by the KWPN for their own stallion keurings.

Stallions can fail the grading on the vetting, on the trot up or when in the school doing the loose movement and jumping phase, let alone on the x-raying stage.

Also in September the SSH do mare and youngstock gradings up and down the whole of Scotland, the results of the foals and youngstock determine whether a stallion can move up the system or down the system. Also the results of all the gradings are then put on the SSH website. Again with two KWPN judges.

Horses are awarded the same as the KWPN - 1st, 2nd or 3rd Premiums and are marked using the KWPN linear system.

Also the grading results are posted on the SSH website with the marks.
 
Some of the phots where very por, some of the cr*p horses looked ok, and the good ones had photos that didnt do them justice!

It was a long day for some of the younger horses, which got overcooked by the time they were in the ring to be graded! (mine included, m.f.s.s. raubritter)

The good thing with the younger ones is the judges did watch some of the warm ups, and are aware that they cant hold their frames etc for the same amount of time as the more advanced/older stallions!

The stallions have to get an average mark of over 7 to grade, which includes everything, conf. temp. jump.(loose and under saddle) paces. trainability, and comp. recored.. there may be other things..

we shot ourselves in the foot a bit as we only got a very low mark for our comp record as we didnt write enough about him! (he has won last 9 shows in a row novice nd elem. with over 50 points so far and he is only 5!)

My oppinion was having been to a few gradings from different societies, the SHGB was heads and shoulders above the others, for organisation and not just grading horses ridden by faces!
 
thank you henryhorn that website made VERY interesting viewing... i would be very interested to see a copy of the results for each stallion and would also like to know the breeding of each, two of the stallions that failed are near me so il be interested to see what happens next whether they will be presented again or not.
 
i have just looked at the graded stallions on that site, and am loving welton double cracker. he is stunning and a brilliant stallion for the future. i have just sent my mare to primitive proposal. i would have loved to have sent her to welton double craker, however wanted a full thoroughbred to go to my ex point to point mare. hopefully in a few years time i will send her to welton double cracker. Any views on primitive proposal would be much appreciated.
 
Personally think he is quite expensive for what he has done .
Dont know whether it is the picture but his limbs dont grab me either.
 
I know a breeder who has sent all her mares to PP last year. She says he is brilliant and would make a could partner for my mare but I wanted something abit chunkier so went with Primitive Star instead. Havent heard a bad word said about PP.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Wish breed societies here would take grading a little more seriously... as they do in Germany it would certainly raise the bar

[/ QUOTE ]

Are people aware of just how many stallions <font color="black"> FAIL </font> stallion Gradings at the German and European inspections? There are SO many that fail with one society who are then presented at another then another then another until they eventually pass with some stud book somewhere...... If it fails at Oldenberg then try Zfdp for instance.... or if it fails the KWPN then why not go for the NRPS or AES....... If its French and doesn't make the SF then why not go for Zangersheide......... It happens all of the time, different stud books want different things and with so many presented it often boils down to politics, the stud books might just decline a stallion because they have three other of the same breeding so have to nit pick over the minutest of detail, doesn't mean the stallion isn't good enough... Look at the KWPN with over 800 stallions forward for the selections all hoping for that golden ticket..... and whilst people really are presented with an "ideal" that only aproved stallions are breeding on the continent this really is not the case and many local farmers still stand and breed unapproved stallions to their local market, and there really are a large number of non papered animals of unknown breeding for sale... it's really not that different on the continent than it is in Britain. we just see the "glossy" printed hype of continental breeding, living in the heart of Europe gives you a much more realistic outlook.

The SSH does seem to be following the Grading guidlines of the EU studbooks, examining the quality of the progeny the stallions are producing as foals and not automatically entering the foals into main foal book based soley on its proven parentage. They also follow the stallions sucess in competition and demote and promote stallions much as the KWPN do Fertility and wsuccessful pregnacy rates also play a role and now the x-raying of stallions to be sure they are free from hereditary skeletal disorders. DNA testing of all progeny as of 2007 is also a smart move but a littlke behind the times with that one... Nonetheless with With over 130 mares and foals inspected each year across Scotland its a wonderful oppertunity for breeders to be able to access such expertise, hardly suprising Scottish Breeding has lept forwards leaps and bounds over the last 15 years. shame they can't travel South of the Border.
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Anyway it's hardly surprising that the support is growing year on year with more and more travelling from England to have their stallions assesed by the KWPN inspectors, even if many do end up dissapointed.
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