Standing in with no food

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Peter7917

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Had a thought earlier today. The most common school of thought seems to be that horses should at no point be without forage. Stabled horses should have ad lib hay otherwise risk of ulcers etc.

But then I thought, sometimes I hack out for four hours at a time. My horse doesn't get to eat on a hack. How is not eating in a stable for four hours any different to not eating on a hack for four hours?

Other than the boredom, can standing in for a few hours with no food really be that detrimental? Or actually, for those fatty ponies on the brink of lami, could a few hours stood in each day with no food actually be beneficial?
 
Horses do not need to stuff their faces 24/7 .
The misinterpretation if ulcer care advice is one of the thing feeling the equine obesity problem which is now huge .
Atm my horses are in by nine ( the time varies ) they get a small feed when they come in basically bran with their supplements and a sprinkle of oats and a few grass cubes .
Between twelve and one they get a small scoop of top chop lite .
Between three and four they get a small about of poor hay .
And they go out sometime after seven .
Two go out on to a fat strip which is bare they are hungry when they go out and hungry when they come in but they are fat and need to loose weight one is retired and unable to work and the other is returning from work after a bizarre foot based mini disaster and can not do a lot of work .
My horses will be in all day all summer they will spend three to four hours without food everyday and they will be just fine .
They come in eat within forty minutes they are all lying sleeping the ones that work work then they get some chop some others get some work then they chill then they get some hay then they chill then they go out.
They are settled and happy .
 
I actually asked my vet about this last year, my argument was whilst hes stood in, his grass is growing, if he goes out hungry he'll just stuff himself stupid and if hes in, I cant leave him with nothing because then he'll just stuff himself quicker. She said that although standing in with nothing to eat is not advisable, up to 5 hours is safe, although of course you do end up with a grumpy pony :(
 
I also queried this, my horses have never been left in with nothing. Obviously you get the odd occasion they unexpectedly eat up quicker than usual but it’s very rare.
Then I had a pony with cushings. I was told to keep him in on a handful of hay a few times a day. This just didn’t sit right with me. Do horses with laminitis and other conditions get immunity to ulcers and conflicting conditions?! No of course not. IMO the thing is provide but slow them down
 
I wouldn't want mine stood in for more than 2 hours with nothing to eat, so if they are overweight, I give a trug of plain oat straw chaff, so that they can eat if they want to but they won't stuff themselves for the sake of it.
I doubt that you hack every day for 4 hours, OP, going without food for for longer occasionally won't hurt but I wouldn't make a regular thing of it. If ours have to be in for 24 hrs for any reason, maybe weather related, they get about an hour's worth of hay, every 3 or 4 hrs, until midnight, when they get rather more to last 'til morning. It isn't so much about the amount they get, it's the frequency, so that they don't have to stand about with nothing available. if the horse needs to lose weight or not to put weight on, the trick is to give something low calorie, rather than to give nothing.
 
My new mare comes in and has small meal of handful chaff & balancer & has a pick at her net but she barely eats any of it preferring to snooze. Other mare eats small hay net after having a lie down. They are in between about 10 and 6. They are muzzled overnight so clearly getting enough to not be hungry.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I wouldn't want mine stood in for more than 2 hours with nothing to eat, so if they are overweight, I give a trug of plain oat straw chaff, so that they can eat if they want to but they won't stuff themselves for the sake of it.
I doubt that you hack every day for 4 hours, OP, going without food for for longer occasionally won't hurt but I wouldn't make a regular thing of it. If ours have to be in for 24 hrs for any reason, maybe weather related, they get about an hour's worth of hay, every 3 or 4 hrs, until midnight, when they get rather more to last 'til morning. It isn't so much about the amount they get, it's the frequency, so that they don't have to stand about with nothing available. if the horse needs to lose weight or not to put weight on, the trick is to give something low calorie, rather than to give nothing.
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what make of straw chaff are you using? I find many have a lightly molassed coating which might make them want to eat it as feed rather than just to nibble as a stand by if they have to stand in for a while.
 
MyBoyChe said:
I actually asked my vet about this last year, my argument was whilst hes stood in, his grass is growing, if he goes out hungry he'll just stuff himself stupid and if hes in, I cant leave him with nothing because then he'll just stuff himself quicker.
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I do sort of get that argument about the grass growing. If they are standing in they are getting something from me plus the grass that has grown and they have a tendency to gorge after being restricted. If they are out they are just getting the grass and maybe eating more calmly if they think there is no risk of famine plus they are moving around. (obviously being careful for the lami risk)
 
The thing is OP is your horse fat .
That’s the thing if he is you must somehow restrict your horses food intake and increase his energy use .

I don’t like my horses on grass during the day at this time of year thin or fat .
 
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My horse isn't fat but does have Cushings, he is in during the day all through the spring and summer with a good size haynet an out and night in a very bare paddock with 2 small haynets. He gets two small feeds to split his recently increased dose of prascend over the day, his feed is mainly herbally stuff, he's got a bit fussy since the increase in prascend. I guess he always has hay, but he does think he's hungry and what he wants more than anything is grass, which he can't have much of at all this time of year. He'll go out in his normal field (at night only) in a few weeks time but right now even that field (which is by no means lush) is probably too much for him.
 
It's a good question.
Horses obviously don't eat for 24 hours a day but I don't like to see them without the option of something to nibble on. They can then decide when to eat, sleep and rest. Like PAS says the majority of horses aren't hacked out for 4 hours everyday so it shouldn't course any problems. I'm personally not keen on starvation paddocks etc. and would rather they had an option of some fibre at all times even if it's something like straw chaff. I'd also rather them out moving about. I think if we try and restrict forage too much it only encourages them to gorge. I'm not a big feeder of hard feed though and like to up work if I see weight gain.
I think some horses are just more prone to ulcers due to producing excess stomach acid and a more stressy temperament. Also there's other factors like pain that contribute.
Basically all horses should be treated as individuals, yes the average ulcer prone horse would suit 24/7 turnout but if you've got a horse that finds that stressful or a setup where everyone else's horses go in at night it won't be right for you.
As someone that has exracers I do love the topic of ulcers.
 
They’ve done studies showing more stomach acid produced day time versus night time. So more important from an ulcer prevention perspective that horse has nearly constant access to fibre source daytime and less important they don’t run out over night.

I’m lucky in that I’ve always been able to feed hay ad-lib without horses getting overweight.
 
paddy555 said:
what make of straw chaff are you using? I find many have a lightly molassed coating which might make them want to eat it as feed rather than just to nibble as a stand by if they have to stand in for a while.
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I use either Halley's or Honeychop, plain oat straw chaff carefully chosen to not be particularly appetising, 'cos I'm not daft!
 
When our horses come in off the grazing, none of them eat a damn thing! I'm getting a complex about my hay.
 
How does this sit with your horse when in at night during winter then? In stable at 4, haynet and feed, last haynet at 8, seen to at 7/8am next morning, no one is going out in the middle of the night to check they have something to eat! 🤔
 
I too have wondered about this as mine chose to come into the stable area in the summer to get away from the flies, i do not put hay out and they will stand in their stables for three to four hours at a time and therefore are not eating. They will then go back into the field for half hour or so and eat and then back into the stables for a few more hours. Doesn't seem to affect them in any way.
 
My vet said it was OK for them to go 4 - 5 hours without eating without an issue. Food doesn't pass immediately through their digestive system.

Mine are out at night and come in to a very small amount to hay which they pick at during the day. They have a feed at lunchtime and go back out late afternoon. I have followed this routine for many years with no problems.
 
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Megan V1 said:
I too have wondered about this as mine chose to come into the stable area in the summer to get away from the flies, i do not put hay out and they will stand in their stables for three to four hours at a time and therefore are not eating. They will then go back into the field for half hour or so and eat and then back into the stables for a few more hours. Doesn't seem to affect them in any way.
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I think the thing is with this is they chose to go in and out, I think that's far better than them being left with nothing with no option of anything.
 
Micky said:
How does this sit with your horse when in at night during winter then? In stable at 4, haynet and feed, last haynet at 8, seen to at 7/8am next morning, no one is going out in the middle of the night to check they have something to eat! 🤔
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Research has shown that horses cope much better with empty stomachs between midnight and 7am than any other time.
 
Well I'm struggling with my sect C companion pony. He's too bloody fat. he is out on grass, muzzled, and he never stops eating. He is an eating machine. I stood and watched him today and I guess the muzzle restricts his intake by about 25% (nothing scientfic going on here, just guess work). I soak all hay when he's in and it's either in a trickle net or a double netted haylage net. I'd give him oat straw but I can't get it here. When in, I leave him for a couple fo hours before giving him his first small net and then I go out at bedtime and give him a second very small net. ATM he's not losing weight but he's not putting it on either. I can't do a track as I like him to be in with Rose for most of the time and she needs the grass. I've just read Puzzled report and am relieved as I have no doubt that he has nothing to eat between midnight and 7.00 am.
 
Micky said:
How does this sit with your horse when in at night during winter then? In stable at 4, haynet and feed, last haynet at 8, seen to at 7/8am next morning, no one is going out in the middle of the night to check they have something to eat! 🤔
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Quite. A good proportion of horses simply cannot eat adlib of any type of food. Maturity has a big influence. My big young horse spent from yearling to 6 on adlib haylage or hay plus grazing all year round. Never fat, every mouthful went into bone growth. He hit 7 and has been on a strict diet ever since. Very few pleasure horses will be doing enough work to allow them adlib forage. We think they are busy but they are not.

Horses can go several hours without eating without being at risk or being mistreated. One of mine left home at 8am this morning. She had breakfast at 6am. I do not feed hay whilst travelling. She competed at 11am. Cooled off and a pick of grass, home at 1.30 and turned out. So she was without food for a number of hours, would that be classed as wrong I wonder. A hunter will not eat from 10.30 ish to 4ish. A racehorse will have food removed several hours before racing and water an hour before.
 
Micky said:
How does this sit with your horse when in at night during winter then? In stable at 4, haynet and feed, last haynet at 8, seen to at 7/8am next morning, no one is going out in the middle of the night to check they have something to eat! 🤔
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To start with our horses do NOT come in at 4.00pm, unless the weather is atrocious. They get their last hay top-up about 11.00pm and they get enough to last until the first check in the morning. They get enough to have some left, so we know that it is enough. If their hay ration is too small to last the night they have a tug of plain oat straw chaff, because we use shavings rather than straw bedding, which in past times, they would have been able to nibble on when their hay was finished.
 
Micky said:
How does this sit with your horse when in at night during winter then? In stable at 4, haynet and feed, last haynet at 8, seen to at 7/8am next morning, no one is going out in the middle of the night to check they have something to eat! 🤔
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That's a long night in. If mine are in they always have hay left in the morning so I know they've not been without.
 
Micky said:
How does this sit with your horse when in at night during winter then? In stable at 4, haynet and feed, last haynet at 8, seen to at 7/8am next morning, no one is going out in the middle of the night to check they have something to eat! 🤔
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It’s the easiest thing in the world to give horses enough forage to last the night
I see my horses for the last time between between eleven and midnight .
But all but one get the forage to last till morning much earlier .
You could enough forage in the stable to last twenty four hours if you wanted too
 
AdorableAlice said:
Quite. A good proportion of horses simply cannot eat adlib of any type of food. Maturity has a big influence. My big young horse spent from yearling to 6 on adlib haylage or hay plus grazing all year round. Never fat, every mouthful went into bone growth. He hit 7 and has been on a strict diet ever since. Very few pleasure horses will be doing enough work to allow them adlib forage. We think they are busy but they are not.

Horses can go several hours without eating without being at risk or being mistreated. One of mine left home at 8am this morning. She had breakfast at 6am. I do not feed hay whilst travelling. She competed at 11am. Cooled off and a pick of grass, home at 1.30 and turned out. So she was without food for a number of hours, would that be classed as wrong I wonder. A hunter will not eat from 10.30 ish to 4ish. A racehorse will have food removed several hours before racing and water an hour before.
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I wouldn't want mine to be without food for that long 7.5 hours? In the day? But what works for one doesn't work for another :)
 
AA is so right about the link between maturity and weight gain .
This is so true of ID’s as young horses it’s lovely you pile the forage into them and they slowly mature then at about eight or so you suddenly realise they are starting to get fat and you have to start managing them .
 
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