starting a livery yard? - HELPFUL ANSWERS ONLY.

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pudsie

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before i start i dont want any silly answers, i want constructive help, any pointers and advice.
I have money for this business plan, but there are still some things i want help with.

Ive looked around here and yes there are plenty of livery yards but ive discovered not many do complete DIY - which is often cheaper for the client so maybe that'd appeal to Uni students etc (hartpury college isn't that far away).
I also wanted to eventually expand livery - to do training/clinics etc but no riding school.

So basically any pointers for buying an equestrian property, setting it up, etc would be great, obviously I have had alot of help already but there's nothing better than personal experience :)
Ive been thinking about this for a few years, and i have thought practically about it - put a fair bit of time into planning but i dont want to leave anything out.

Thanks to anyone that does reply - even any ideas would be great.
 
A good friend has just done that and she started off with really assessing the current market rate and services in the area. Then she looked at the USP (unique selling points) of yards she was interested in, so hacking, access to show venues, size of school etc. Next she looked at all the costs plus looking at "hidden" costs, such as field maintenance, how aged the school/fencing was etc plus insurance. She also checked to make sure that all the necessary permissions were actually in place (i.e lighting, permission to run a livery etc). She has gone into it with open eyes, ie. spending an HUGE amount of time there with no days off while it gets up and running! the only other thing she has mentioned that the paperwork is actually quite considerable and that needs to be factored in time wise too.
 
I don't know what counts as a silly answer, this may be one!

I would imagine one of the first big concerns is the initial cost to set all this up. If you buy a house and land, you need to make sure you can get PP for the stables and business, then factor in the costs of stables, arena, fencing, etc. which may also include bringing electric and water to the facilities. How long would it take you to make that money back from DIY livery? On the other hand if you buy a farm with outbuildings you will be competing with a lot of other interested buyers and may find the price is significantly inflatted even in this depressed market. You would still have the conversion costs although they may be significantly lower than before.

I don't think clinics bring in any sort of decent amount of money and they would mean the facilities would not be available on those days for your regular livery clients. As for training, would you do this yourself? I would imagine you might make more money as a trainer who is willing to travel to your clients than expecting them to come to you, but of course it depends on your reputation as a trainer.

How about a competition venue? You'd need to invest a bit more in the infastructure but there might be more potential for income.
 
My only piece of advice is:
If you need/want to make money out of DIY yard (don't even think of capital return - just covering running costs and making a living) it needs to be BIG, and I mean really BIG, ideally with no mortgage on the property, as to cover cost of interest, you might have to price yourself out of the market.
 
When looking for a place I would prioritise the land - it's a big advantage to be able to grow your own hay and lots of people will expect year-round turnout so you need to make sure you have enough acreage. You also need to consider the soil etc - if it's going to be wet you'll need more of it and careful management so go for the best land you can. You're probably better looking for a farm or something with existing outbuildings as this will make it much easier to get planning permission.

Would agree that you'll find it very difficult to make money out of DIYs. Ideally you need to find out about other yards in the area and try to find something which will be unique to your yard so you can attract clients (e.g. better facilities, flexible services etc).

You'll need to do extensive research before hand into the 'hidden' costs - rates, insurance, water, electric etc. Very easy to forget about but they add up to a considerable sum!
 
I've got 3 acres and a lovely livery with her two super ponies. Its an excellent way of making sure my boy has company and we've had a lot of fun going to shows/events etc. She has a box!!!! So I keep my costs as low as possible bearing in mind that she's allowing me to share her box, and its worked well, fantastically.

What you need to be careful of, being constructive here, is to be choosey as to who you have, especially if its your living accommodation as well. And if you are unfortunate enough to have someone that takes the p!ss and for e.g. leaves their horse without food and water all day, and/or doesn't pay on time, or upsets other liveries on the yard, then you will need to be decisive and send them up the road.

I've been offering livery since 1992, in that time we've only had one bad egg and fortunately she didn't stay.

You won't get rich quick, but you'll hopefully meet some lovely people and horses, and make friends for life, plus cover the costs of keeping your own too.

By all means look into planning, insurance, business plans etc etc. (oh and don't forget the obvious thing of insistsing on a livery agreement before they move onto your yard), but the thing you need to remember is don't have anyone on the yard you're not totally sure about and even then you can be wrong about people. And get rid PDQ if they're not satisfactory before the rot sets in and effects everyone else. You might have to be a dragon on occasions but there's no other way often, plus be an arbiter between warring factions and take decisive action if needs be. It isn't all a picnic, but very rewarding if you get it right and get the right horses and the right owners.

If its what you want to do, then go for it I'd say! And Good Luck.
 
Like any business - ther's a huge amount to be looked into and given thought. Livery is an exceptionally hard way to make a profit and remember profit is not a swear word. I suggest that you talk to your banking small business advisor, the Federation of small business and the local business grant aid offices from the local county council. All these people will give you the sound advice that you need.
From a personal point of view, as a yard Owner, Livery, Instructor, Riding school owner, events manager, and gereral 'the loos are blocked and oh so is that skinky drain' person - think carefully about your life style, what you want out of life/ work balance and really decide if this what you really want. It's a huge drain on you as a person, no let up , no days off or away from the yard without at least five phone calls of problems to deal with, little time for your own horses, and not a lot of pay at the end. Oh and by the way I have been doing this for 30 yrs - LOve it but IT IS NOT for everyone. Good luck only you will know the answer !
 
Thankyou to everyone that did leave good replies, its all much appreciated.
I totally agree that DIY alone doesn't bring in any money - What i meant is that most people dont offer any DIY and when i was first looking for a place for my own it was quite a pain.

Touching upon the hay etc - i have family that produce hay and ive already sort of mentioned that idea to them.
I looked into a farm instead today as it is already commercial and quite a few places around here have been turned into equestrian facilities around here already. There also marginally cheaper?
Can i just clear up i do want to do it on quite a big scale, not just DIY.
Ive been a yard manager for the last 3 years so i have been doing a fair bit myself and i understand its hard work and by no means a get rich quick (or at all) job, but i do really want to do it - and i have spent many years considering it.

I have begun to look at insurance etc. Luckily as far as maintenance on fences etc go Ive got my OH for such things, but all in all still a cost.
I also wanted to take in horses for training - i worked for someone doing this and she was certainly doing ok for herself.



Abina - thankyou for the help. i am 100% sure that it is for me. 15 Years in horses and working im totally sure the no let up is for me, and i actually do enjoy the hard work.
I know its hard but as you said.. You love it.

All in all i just wanted to clear up i wasn't just DIY and i in no way think its easy.
So PLEASE AND THANKYOU to everyone. :D
 
Abina - thankyou for the help. i am 100% sure that it is for me. 15 Years in horses and working im totally sure the no let up is for me, and i actually do enjoy the hard work.
I know its hard but as you said.. You love it.

Good - step one - TICK ;-)
 
Hey I don't actually have the experience of owning or running my own yard, don't have the finances right now. But you seem to have already covered most of your bases. You obvisiously have the experience, and have done the groundwork. And including what is not already on offer in that area is always good as an extra!
Training horses freelance is something I do have most experience with and with your own yard its definately something that will keep you busy, but will pay well to, and also get your name about. So good luck and enjoy!
 
Abrina - yeah now just the 1,000,002 others i need to do!
Any pointers on land etc if youve got any at all please would be a great help.

& Crazyhorse - yay thankyou! that really helped, do you have any advice as a trainer? :) Ive been thinking about it for a little while - i have a few good names to splash about too hopefully that will help.
 
make sure what is and isnt expected or allowed is made crystal clear and have a written contract between yourself and your clients. for example would you be happy with a horse given 2 slices of hay over night,brought in at 4pm and not turned out til 10am next day? Then you find the owner sprinkling disinfectant on the bedding coz said horse is eating the straw? this happened with a client of mine,and the person had BHS qualifications and worked as a groom. I thought she'd be the ideal client. Could you put up with horses being mucked out once a week? clients insisting they had paid for hay when they hadnt. the list is endless. Also,make sure they pay by direct debit and in advance. Good Luck with it, i'd never do livery again.
 
Can i just say i am totally crazy - and i completely understand you must all believe Im totally batty for thinking of doing it.


I used to work for an international sport horse yard - she took training in (they paid for livery and training etc) - she stated clearly the horse was skipped/mucked out everyday. I would never allow a horse to only be mucked out once a week.
Im hoping eventually to do high profile clients aswell (big dreams)! And hoping this will over take livery eventually.
I do agree i will have to bite my tongue occasionally for what a client wants.. At the end of the day, firstly its their horse, secondly they pay my bills.

I have just began to finalize a business plan - as far as insurance is there anyone thats recommended or is it a case of just searching?

Aswell as training maybe breaking and bringing on could also be a good selling point?

At this rate ill need a small country. :(
 
Ok if you had a small country just think how fun running it would be. ;) no in all seriousness don't get all panicky, obvisiously you realy want to do this and you've saved to get here. Remember this is what life is for, trying things so you don't wake up at 80 thinking I wonder. There's negatives and positives to everything you do in life.
The only thing ill say is start small, and with what your comfortable with! If you have means of getting hay\haylage from family great! There's no reason to think you couldn't make a living from as little as 5-6 acres to start off! Remember if you've a horse in 4 breaking or schooling and it takes a month or two, well then you've a nice empty stable to fill again! All I can say is rome wasn't buildt in a day! If its what you want work at it'll happen but just not overnight. But you can be sure a lot of people will have bad to throw at you, but its your yard, so that doesn't matter!
As for insurance price around, tell them exactly what you need, then use 1s quote against the other till you get a decent quote!
Hope that helps!
 
I have no idea but id have no hair left by the end of if!
Unfortunately with most insurance companies i need an address for a quote and i havent even brought anywhere yet!
I could always put the address of the maybe proposed property


I wanted to start small-ish. (8-10 acres). but there seems to be a black spot between say 3-5 stables, and 8-10. :O

i completely feel that way - just dont want to throw it away and turn around in 30years and wonder what ive been waiting to happen before i did it.
I had a look on shearwater insurance, Im thinking i need buildings, contents, livestock and personal liability?
God there's too many hehe.

I just get a bit pee'd off when people constantly throw negative at me about it, it didn't work for some people doesn't mean it won't work for me.
Thankyou for all your help :D
 
you also need public liability and 3 c liability insurance. insurance quotes will vary according to the number of horses kept. you will also need employers liability as you will need some help to do theyard, as realistically you cant do it all 365 days a year. good luck. its not an easy business to be in.
 
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