Starting a livery yard

N

Newbie84

Active Member
Joined
19 February 2011
Messages
40
Visit site
Ive been reading A LOT of H&H threads about starting up a livery business, but nearly all of them are for DIY yards. I am in the planning stages of setting up a Full livery business for 16 horses. We will be building the establishment from scratch and have worked out the business will pay the initial investment back within 3 years so we believe it to be a very viable business.

Having read through so many posts about yards, I've found most have really negative and unhelpful comments, I would be really grateful to hear from people who keep their horses on full livery and also YO who run yards with full/schooling livery. It'd be great to hear what prices people are charging and paying and what people expect from a higher end facility. Do YO have opening times and what rules do you have.

Many thanks in advance.
 
I'm on grass livery . I pay £42 a week which includes checking , holding for farrier/vet , worming and hay and use of XC course , BSJA arena and dressage arena . Fantastic hacking also .

I could never afford full livery myself but I believe the full works at my yard is between £85-£100 a week .
 
Full livery in my area of the Midlands is...none existent. I suppose your location depends a lot on how successful your business would be.
A little further afield, there's full livery for £90 - £120 a week.

Down South where I go to uni is typically £100 a week +.


The full livery yards I know of have opening times of 8am - 9pm kind of time I believe.
 
for full livery from a high end establishment I would expect - all hay, feed, turnout (individual or pairs) rug change, grooming, mucking out, hold for vet/farrier, worming regime( or counts) good facilities (large outdoor arena , preferably an indoor too, horse walker, maybe off road track or some xc fences) and someone competent to ride horse (at extra cost) should i be unable to. tack cleaning is always nice too!

i would expect this to cost between 100 and 125 per week. and i live in cheshire so quite an expensive area


hth

Blitz
 
Newbie84 said:
We will be building the establishment from scratch and have worked out the business will pay the initial investment back within 3 years so we believe it to be a very viable business.
.
Click to expand...

Paid back your investment in three years? Goodness me, how much are you looking at charging your clients? Sorry to sound incredulous, but when we priced it up as a business plan before we decided it was a rubbish investment, with the on going costs, business rates, staff, new arena, stable blocks, car park etc etc, three years wouldn't be any where close to paying back the land purchase and the initial investment.
 
I live in Surrey but keep my horses at home. The nearest yard to me is full livery at £915pm. They have an indoor arena, large outdoor arenas, one with full set of show jumps, xc course, mixed or individual turnout, covered walker and nice touches like tea room, washing machines, solarium and hot wash box etc
The important thing is they have a good staff to horse ratio so you know your horse is getting good care. They have good yard maintenance and security. They are full and have a waiting list so the price isn't an issue for people round here.

There are similar yards in this area in the same price range with similar facilities but a good on-site trainer/rider is as much of a draw as facilities. What is missing in this area is a yard of that standard with the option of more turnout as all have limited turnout. It would be nice to have the option of 24-7 turnout in summer with the same level of care.

You need to charge enough to provide a good level of service and cater for individual requirements as well as enough to cover your costs and make a realistic living out of it. Good luck.
 
Maiko said:
Paid back your investment in three years? Goodness me, how much are you looking at charging your clients? Sorry to sound incredulous, but when we priced it up as a business plan before we decided it was a rubbish investment, with the on going costs, business rates, staff, new arena, stable blocks, car park etc etc, three years wouldn't be any where close to paying back the land purchase and the initial investment.
Click to expand...

We own the 1000 acre farm the business will be built and run on.
 
Newbie84 said:
We own the 1000 acre farm the business will be built and run on.
Click to expand...

Are you sure you've worked out your figures properly? Regardless of owning the land, if you are building a livery yard from scratch with room for 16 indoor liveries, even if you run at full mast straight from the beginning and then all year round that's only going to bring you in £250,000 over the 3 years if you charge £100 per week per horse. My turnover as a livery/breeding/hay farm is higher but my outgoings take up a fair chunk of that. If you are looking to build arenas, car parks, stables, driveways etc and cover all staff costs, I really can't see how you can think you'll have paid all costs back within 3 years.
 
Thank you for your comments, they're helpful.

I feel as though I have covered all avenues with my planning. There will be 3 staff members, myself working f/t plus one p/t and a p/t rider who I hope will help to bring in customers as they have a good rep round my way. My prices range from £100 basic 5 days full, £120 full and £150 including riding and £150 upwards for breaking. we don't have many livery yards around here that offer full livery and have good facilities. We will offer 50x30 arena, horse walker, wash bays tea and locker rooms etc.
 
It will be an outdoor yard, but yes I've had all my quotes through for my facilities. At full mast we'd turnover £300k in first three years, making around £120k profit over the three years. I don't actually expect to run at full mast from day one.
 
LynH said:
I live in Surrey but keep my horses at home. The nearest yard to me is full livery at £915pm. They have an indoor arena, large outdoor arenas, one with full set of show jumps, xc course, mixed or individual turnout, covered walker and nice touches like tea room, washing machines, solarium and hot wash box etc
The important thing is they have a good staff to horse ratio so you know your horse is getting good care. They have good yard maintenance and security. They are full and have a waiting list so the price isn't an issue for people round here.

There are similar yards in this area in the same price range with similar facilities but a good on-site trainer/rider is as much of a draw as facilities. What is missing in this area is a yard of that standard with the option of more turnout as all have limited turnout. It would be nice to have the option of 24-7 turnout in summer with the same level of care.

You need to charge enough to provide a good level of service and cater for individual requirements as well as enough to cover your costs and make a realistic living out of it. Good luck.
Click to expand...

wow I am under charging

I have good grazing (not individual tho) indoor / outdoor schools, common room inc tea coffee , storage trunks 1 per livery/, 2x feed inc / + hay / muckout turnout / horse shower, rubber mats mirrored schools and stables etc and more 92 per week 7 days a week and that is only part livery
 
Last edited:
Leviathan said:
wow I am under charging

I have good grazing (not individual tho) indoor / outdoor schools, common room inc tea coffee , storage trunks 1 per livery/, 2x feed inc / + hay / muckout turnout / horse shower, rubber mats mirrored schools and stables etc and more 92 per week 7 days a week and that is only part livery
Click to expand...

It depends where you are but a lot of yards round here would be charging over £100 for that :)
 
Honestly I'd check your maths quite carefully. If everyone of your 16 pays the top end £150 a week (£600 a month) and if you get everything really cheap (feed, hay, bedding, insurance, electric, water, business rates etc) and pay minimum wage then lets say you make 50% profit on your £600 a month

16 x £300 x12 (months) x 3 (years) = £173,000

You won't build a top end stable block for 16 horses + well surfaced big school, storage etc. for that I promise.

The livery yard I moved from was 25 boxes top end all facilities + little 1 bed flat for grooms cost c.£1million - school wasn't included in that. !! On an existing farm so the bill was just facilities.
 
Spring Feather said:
Are you sure you've worked out your figures properly? Regardless of owning the land, if you are building a livery yard from scratch with room for 16 indoor liveries, even if you run at full mast straight from the beginning and then all year round that's only going to bring you in £250,000 over the 3 years if you charge £100 per week per horse. My turnover as a livery/breeding/hay farm is higher but my outgoings take up a fair chunk of that. If you are looking to build arenas, car parks, stables, driveways etc and cover all staff costs, I really can't see how you can think you'll have paid all costs back within 3 years.
Click to expand...

Do you have an idea what your business rates are for your livery yard?
 
Sorry If I've been negative - one positive comment, top end yards are likely to appeal possibly to competitive people so I'd make your school 60m long so dressage people can practice tests that need the long arena - they aren't that common so would be a good top end selling point.
 
Newbie84 said:
It will be an outdoor yard, but yes I've had all my quotes through for my facilities. At full mast we'd turnover £300k in first three years, making around £120k profit over the three years. I don't actually expect to run at full mast from day one.
Click to expand...
I really don't want to put a downer on it but I honestly don't think you've done your sums right. Are you sure you have put in costs for everything to run this yard? Never mind all the expensive buildings and arena work and machinery to keep everything up and together, there's the never ending supply of hay, feed, bedding that needs to be factored in.
 
It's costing £150k to set up- because of the other businesses we run, we will do a lot of the work ourselves.

16 liveries x £120 pw x 52 = £99,840 x 3 yrs =£300k less £50k a yr for costs = £150k.
 
Newbie84 said:
Do you have an idea what your business rates are for your livery yard?
Click to expand...

Yes I know exactly what my business rates are however I'm in Canada and over here we get a substantial discount on our rates as we are a registered farm and as such we only pay 25% of what the rate would be if we were a private residence.
 
Leviathan said:
wow I am under charging

I have good grazing (not individual tho) indoor / outdoor schools, common room inc tea coffee , storage trunks 1 per livery/, 2x feed inc / + hay / muckout turnout / horse shower, rubber mats mirrored schools and stables etc and more 92 per week 7 days a week and that is only part livery
Click to expand...

I believe that livery businesses as a whole undercharge. I cannot see how people can make a decent living when you look at the livery income verses outgoing. It's a more than full time job running a yard but often people don't factor in a decent salary for themselves not do they take into account the original cost of the land or mortgage used to buy it. I worked out to have a grass livery at my yard making no profit at all it costs me £125pm per horse without taking into account the original cost of the land. I'd need to charge £200pm to make it worth my while yet I see again and again people saying they'd only pay £10pw for grazing. Grazing land is expensive as are additional facilities. I've had a new arena and small yard built this year and have easily spent £50k without taking the cost of land in Surrey into account. YOs need to start charging realistic prices for livery to ensure the livery industry can continue to be viable for years to come.
 
Good luck with your project OP - but give martin collins a call tomorrow and ask them how much for a nice waxed surface 30 by 50 (or ideally 60) proper school would be - it'll be almost all of your £150k.

If you want people to pay top end then they won't want a school built by a farmer that's never built a school before and is surfaced with builders sand - sorry.


ETA
Top end people won't want to use straw - rubber mats and shavings at best or more fancy bedding at worst.

TO woork out the true cost you need to include full price for hay and haylage as if your don't use them yourselves you could sell them and keep the money.
 
Last edited:
LynH said:
I live in Surrey but keep my horses at home. The nearest yard to me is full livery at £915pm. They have an indoor arena, large outdoor arenas, one with full set of show jumps, xc course, mixed or individual turnout, covered walker and nice touches like tea room, washing machines, solarium and hot wash box etc
The important thing is they have a good staff to horse ratio so you know your horse is getting good care. They have good yard maintenance and security. They are full and have a waiting list so the price isn't an issue for people round here.

There are similar yards in this area in the same price range with similar facilities but a good on-site trainer/rider is as much of a draw as facilities. What is missing in this area is a yard of that standard with the option of more turnout as all have limited turnout. It would be nice to have the option of 24-7 turnout in summer with the same level of care.

You need to charge enough to provide a good level of service and cater for individual requirements as well as enough to cover your costs and make a realistic living out of it. Good luck.
Click to expand...

I think I know where you're talking about! ;)

I'm very local too and most part/full livery yards around here charge between £525- £600 for 7 day part, and then £600-£700 for full. These are slightly less fancy yards, but still with good sized schools, decent facilities etc. But not necessarily the xc course, multiple schools, etc.

For me, I want part to be properly inclusive. I don't want to be forking out more than £500 a month and then getting hit with extra charges for bedding, hay, holding for vet etc. Also important for me is decent grazing and turnout (not just 4 hours a day) and enough hay so that horses aren't standing with empty bellies over night. And competent sympathetic handlers.

In terms of facilities, a school with a good surface and floodlights are essential. A proper course of SJs and access to good hacking are a bonus too - particularly offroad hacking.
 
Last edited:
Newbie84 said:
We have our own supply of hay haulage and straw
Click to expand...

As do I. However it still has to be costed in if you are running a legitimate business. Any hay/straw you use on the livery yard business is taking away from the income which would be generated from it elsewhere. The hay and straw is not free. If you are seeing it as free then you are basically stealing from one of your businesses to prop up the other.
 
You will struggle to keep yard spotless and 16 horses cared for with you as a full time person and a part time person. Not enough hours in day. If I was paying full livery I would expect things done at a reasonable time, ok if i came up at 7am to ride, maybe the stable wouldn't be all mucked out, but if I came up at 9am I would expect all stables to be clean and yard tidy,
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top