Starting babies in headcollars/hackamores

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dollyanna

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With the return of longer days and the odd ray of sunshine, I am pondering what to do with my two babies this year. They are now about 21 months, and would really like to do a little more than just be field ornaments. They do enjoy going for walks etc, and I have done a bit of proofing of things like roadworks signs, umbrellas, dogs, bikes, buggies etc. They will be ride and drive - basically anything I can think of they will have a go at at some point in their lives! Oh, they are both fells.

I would really like to start them with a little bit of longreining, just round the field and our little village, no different to their in hand walks. But I don't want to put a bit in their mouths just yet, not sure whether I will ride them in bits as yet, although they will be bitted for driving. But their headcollars aren't ideal for attaching reins to, would slip around.

Has anyone else started babies in just a headcollar for longreining? What are your experiences? I was also looking at side pull bridles, just a really simple leather one, or possibly a rope "NH" type sidepull, although I have no real experience of these at all.

The aim of this would be just getting them going better off my voice (they are excellent in hand),and building up confidence not having me at their side all the time, especially my boy who can be clingy. Just something different to being led all the time, and a different way for them to think. I have help on the ground, not just going to stick reins on and go!

Thoughts?
 
I have always started in a bit personally.

Only thing you should check out is whether you are covered by insurance if you take them around the village without a bit.
 
Something like a Libby's Scawbrig would probably work well for you - more stable on the face than a headcollar, and an inexpensive starter option.

Rules of the Road suggest your horse must wear "a bridle" when on the roads - nothing is mentioned about a bit :)

It's also possible to get Public Liability insurance to lead out horses in headcollars through the Good Horsemanship Society, if that's your preference :)
 
I would use a bit. You will struggle to hang on to them if they decide to take off with no bit IMO.

To be honest I'd carry on with your walks for a bit longer and do the long reining in a school or field until they are established. Even a small pony out in front of you on long lines has a lot of strength about it and you need them to be under control.
 
Thanks for your thoughts so far. Maybe I should clarify that the longreining will be in the field until they have got the hang of it, I just want to use it as part of their education in terms of introducing them to "obstacles" and steering and the idea of thinking for themselves a little more for now. They are only short longreins (although I do have longer ones as well if they work better), so probably more groundwork from the side rather than being way behind them, and as I said I will have someone on the ground in front as well with a rope there for when it's needed. I'm in no rush at all, no agenda, just playing with ideas.

I have to take them on the road already with no bridle as there field is several minutes walk from the yard. It is a very very quiet village, mainly locals passing us on the way to the yard who are very used to us and respectful. I'm very lucky in that respect.

I was wondering more about longreining at all in a bitless bridle, and has anyone done it? Whilst I have done a lot in my time, I have only ever ridden bitless, and am trying to work out the forces that would occur by having longer reins and a different angle. Hence thinking sidepull, no chance of magnifying poll/nose pressure unwittingly. Plus my boy has a very sensitive poll and I don't want to risk exacerbating that.
 
I have long reined in a hackamore. I think you would be fine doing that in a field but if you are going to buy something new for the purpose then a dually head collar is fab for long reining and I would get one of them. You don't want to be close enough if they bucked and kicked out they could catch you (however placid they may be) so use the longer reins.
 
No no, when I say closer, I mean more to the side, so more like groundwork than real longreining as such. I will play with both, obviously there will be a lot of longreining going on prior to driving and throughout their lives as I really enjoy it, but I wanted to play with them with me at their side but not leading them as well. When I work from behind it will definitely be longer reins!!

The two things that have caught my eye (and not necessarily these exact ones, just the first I could fine when looking for ideas) are

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150497073974?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619

which is more like a NH halter I think?

or

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/new-sidep...652&pid=100015&prg=1006&rk=1&sd=390540675113&

Again, I stress these are not the exact ones I would necessarily buy, just a picture of what is in my mind right now.
 
I have started a few young cobs and fell ponies to the longreins using a Dually halter. I get them well trained in hand, then teach them the rudiments of lunging, then introduce them to two reins and teach them to yield to the outside rein, then longrein them. If any thing happens and you have to take a firm hold on them, their mouths will not get hurt in the process of controlling them. Once they are well made I introduce the bit.

If you've done your groundwork well, and you introduce the ponies to the reins in an enclosed area and get them reliable and confident, then when you do go out in your Dually or headcollar you probably won't have any trouble.
 
I think if you understand groundwork in the tool you decide to use, then you should be OK to longline in it. Particularly in the field. I have longreined in a rope halter (and a bridle), but don't any more because I feel that I lose some of the "feel" that I want when ridden.
I probably wouldn't longrein in a mechanical hackamore, because I always feel that I lose some lateral flexion in them. If you're really interested in the bitless option then correct lateral flexion is a must.
For riding, several mainstream insurance companies will insure riders who ride bitless, including in rope halter variations. To be belt and braces you can insure with the Good Horsemanship Society (hate the name but they specifically insure bitless riders).
I will pm you some links to photos that might interest you if you like, just let me know.
 
I wouldn't be long reining at all this year, I didn't long rein my youngster until he was three and I thnk that was early enough.

When I did start long reining him i used a dually.
 
Why not use a lunging cavesson? IMO you want something that will be very stable on their face so they don't get confused and understand the cues clearly.
 
My youngster was started off lunging in the field in a headcollar, soon went on to longreining, she only did a few sessions to build up a bit of muscle for Futurity presentation. She seemed to find it interesting and not particularly taxing. Still cantered up the field when called. ;):cool:
 
Tinypony, yes please, that would be great!

I'm not overly keen on the dually, a friend has one but I find it very heavy to handle, and if I find it heavy then it is going to be heavy on their heads too. I will consider it, maybe borrow hers to play with.

Same with cavesson, I just find them very heavy, but the stability aspect is why I was looking at a simple sidepull, that would be more secure than a headcollar.

digger, I don't want to lunge at all until they are at least 3, not keen on them doing lots of circles and I prefer to longline than lunge anyway.

Wheels, I have no intention of doing serious work, it will be a few mins here and there, and they both make it very clear when they want to do a bit of "work" and when they don't, I listen to them both and don't push them when they want time to just think and be babies. But even last year they would ask to come in for a while and do something, rather than be in the field. They live out 24/7 and have plenty of time to themselves, but I have known them since they were 3 months and they enjoy exploring different ideas. It is not strenuous to do a little longreining as groundwork, and they won't be doing anything they won't also do in hand. It is all just games. They won't be sat on until possibly the end of their 3rd year if that, certainly won't be ridden properly until they are 4. I am in no rush, but think they would enjoy a different challenge from time to time. :)

I am listening to everyone, I learn by hearing as many different opinions as possible, so please keep the ideas coming!! I am interested in any other suggestions of games to play with them as well.
 
I'm going against the grain here as I always long rein in a headcollar and get on the first time in a headcollar. That said, they are horses I have either bred or had a lot to do with so they know the score - no pulling, leaning or tonking off :D. They have been walked out on their own from a young age, starting with short walks and gradually getting to the stage where they can trot and have a short canter in long reins (I run out of puff fairly quickly).

I start with a well fitting headcollar and clip the lunge rein on the side, then as we are walking send them on ahead and flip the lunge rein over their backs and before you know it they have a rein each side and long reining :). This is on a bridleway btw, not a road. It is a good idea to get them to think for themselves. If they see something they don't like they can stop and have time to work it out rather than feeling they have to run away or start a struggle. I try to support them towards the right decision (which is, we are going forward) rather than pushing them as it makes them more confident. Although I have one that I don't allow too much thinking time!

If they are wearing a bridle it is because they are learning about bridles rather than because it is needed for control. However, no harm in having a bridle over the headcollar then it is there if you need it. Mine are Arabs so naturally light and forward anyway.

Don't forget to wear gloves :)

ETS - one of my youngsters stopped dead, I wasn't paying attention and walked straight in to the back of them :eek: luckily they just went :rolleyes:
 
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I longrein my lad in a dually, great for when he's full of himself.
tbh I don't think a dually weighs any more than a decent leather headcollar, they can be fiddly till you get the right fit, I have one for each of mine with their names on, saves any confusion
 
I do longrein in a headcollar, but horse is also ridden bitless, so horse understands the system :)

I wouldn't use a rope halter - too thin and too much movement on the face. The other link you put up is probably fine, although in my experience those cheapy leather bitless bridles on eBay have very odd sizing (if it fits on the noseband, the throatlash will virtually strangle your horse ;)).

There are a number of bitless options that are just nosebands that attach to a regular bridle - the LightRider is one. My ideal for longreining would be a Micklem, but since you're just getting started with the youngster, trying to think of low cost options is probably a better bet :D

BTW, my "longreining" is exactly as you describe - I walk (and trot) at "twenty past", rather than directly behind at "half past", and one rein comes over the horse's withers. Sort of Spanish Riding School stylee ;) or like Ellen Ofstad (like the preview on here... http://ellenofstad.com/longreiningeng/longreining.htm). Horse seems to really enjoy it and up and down hills is great for building hindquarter strength (in him and me :D).
 
Thanks everyone! The lightrider looks interesting, might investigate that a bit further. As I said before, the ebay one was just one I find that shows the type I want, without having to look too far, not what I will buy :)

To me, longreining is just what has been described, being more with the horse and reins over the back, longlining is two lungelines, whether in circles or straight, and lunging is a single line (which I personally don't do for various reasons).

I won't bother with a rope halter, I'm not overly keen on that idea but thought it was worth asking about for the sake of more knowledge, but I thought it might move too much. And for me, a dually weighs heavy and feels heavy in the hand, I just really don't like them at all. And I would rather start them off with no pressure "gadgets" at all if possible until I get to know each of them and what they work well with.

Any more ideas I would love to hear them, but thank you for everyone's input!
 
I haven't used a bit since 1998!! I use a simple PNH rope headcollar or hackamore and various lengths of fairly light rope.....I use this set up for everything, 'lunging' 'long reining' and 'riding'!!! I do not like either the Dr. Cook crossunder system or the light rider as both 'grab' the head or nose......I do have a light rider and I have clipped the reins so there is no 'slide', but I haven't actually used it as I always pick the simple system!! And my horses seem to be very happy!!
 
I always start long reining and riding in a normal headcollar- I just clip on to the metal rings on either side of the noseband part :)

Personally, I wouldn't long rein on public roads with just a headcollar though, unless someone was also walking by the horse's head.
 
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