starting from scratch ???

TrasaM
thank you,yeah it's horrible when you get something so wrong,i got told he was 100% in every way and decided just to take the owners word for it,if i knew he was anything like this-as cute as he is i would have kept looking,but this is the position i am in and i do think with clear consistent communication he could be good :) obviously with the right help as well :) the owner of one of the yards i was at did mention that domino looked sore/stiff in his stifles buty i have had 2 vets out since so i think i will stick with the physio/massage therapist,to see if that helps.haha yeah that is like domino-with all the groundwork i have done with him,he now backs up/turns just with me pointing at the area i want him to move but when leading,if he sees food,nothing stops him.that is the main thing we will be working on (with a trainer)

EstherYoung
thanks and i dont think there is something wrong just by watching the video over and over,i took the video to send to equine massage therapists and nearly everyone of them said he looked stiff in his hind-which is where most of the pain is,and because he isnt physically hopping i at least know there is nothing broken,so i just thought people could have a look at the the video and say what it looked like-if it was a tear/fracture/splint or what.i am from east ayrshire if anyone could recommend a good trainer who would be willing to come to where i am.
 
My mistake, I think I have you confused with someone else who posted recently asking for similar opinions about soundness from a video. Apologies.
 
OP, this horse sounds like it has some serious issues sadly. I really think (as some have already said) that he needs professional, confident handling - not just nown and again but permanently. He shouldn't be handled at all by anyone less competent as pushy horses often keep testing and if you let them off just the once then they just keep spiraling down again. I had a 3yo BIG Welsh Cob who was horrid when I bought him, he would happily run right over the top of me, kick/threaten over feed, bite, tank off when being led, would also flip out in the trailer when loaded etc. it took a LOT of work and time on my part. I was the sole handler of him though so I made sure I was very consistent in what I asked of him. There's no tricks etc. its just common sense how you teach them to get manners. But although of course, I am no pro - I was always confident with him and never had any doubt in how to deal with him, which makes such a difference. If you're questioning what to do, personally I think you should sell him to someone really experienced (having told them honestly about what he's like).
 
first of all-i will not be selling him and i am confident with him (i didnt used to be ) and i do know what i need to do but i was just looking for advice on which method people have used and has worked and yes i know every horse is different-mainly clicker training because that is the method i will be using and i think will work.
 
first of all-i will not be selling him and i am confident with him (i didnt used to be ) and i do know what i need to do but i was just looking for advice on which method people have used and has worked and yes i know every horse is different-mainly clicker training because that is the method i will be using and i think will work.


Ok if you want to use the clicker training method, get a couple of books first and read them cover to cover... Clicker training the young colt is a good one, the woman who wrote it also does a lot of you tube videos, read up, watch, read up, watch then repeat... Follow the steps... Never have sessions lasting more than a few minutes to begin with... It's incredibly tiring on the brain of a young horse, especially when they are trying to figure out what the hell is going on. You must get your head around the psychology of it, the why, what is the reward - the click, not the treat. When to click, how often to click, when to use bursts of clicking... There is a lot to digest before you go in half cocked, because without thoroughly learning and understanding and thinking automatically along the lines of clicker training and above all being religiously consistent, you are just going to have one very confused horse. So I would reccomend you do a couple of weeks solid reading and watching before you embark on this. Done right, it can teach self control, focus, manners, calm a horse, ground work, introducing new things such as loading, bath time, clipping, feet handling, bombproofing. Some people also use it for advanced riding training, but you must 'live in the mindset of a clicker trainer' for it to be effective.
 
Get a proper equine vet and ask for a full work up! No proper physio will (should) touch the horse in the UK without the Vet seeing it first. Re: the equine massager person if you have a good physio why waste the time and money on someone unqualified! And if they are claiming to be an animal physio check out their qualification.

You can want to do the work all you want but quite honestly if you were capable enough you wouldn't be having the problems you are. It is very insulting to good professional horse people to judge the way they will treat the horse by the bad treatment from bad yards YOU have chosen up to now. Ask for recommendations based on your area....you will quickly find out on here who is good and who to avoid...this goes for vets/physios/farriers as well. There is no reason why you can't livery the horse with a good handler and learn as you go. You've been given some excellent advice which you keep refuting....I'm guessing you'll argue against me too. The final advice I have is if you are not willing to open your mind and move horse and yourself somewhere you can get proper help (and it's very important to realise YOU need the help as much as the horse) the. Don't post on here in 6 months time about how bad things are or how lame he is. You've been offered advice from people with decades of experience in these scenarios...don't ignore it
 
thanks,i'lldefinately have a look at them,i have clicker trained my dog so have some sort of experiance.

the equine massage therapist i used has 30 years experiance and is qualified to do it and he had the vet check him 2 times before being seen by her (pretty sure i already mentioned that)the only advice i am refusing is to send my horse away or have someone to train him who will most likely treat him badly(i have already contacted people inmy area and most of them use whips or some sort of force/abuse,i know alot of people use whips on their horse but there is no point in inflictingpain when it does nothing for the horse anyway, i have said that i will have someone come and guide me along the way but I will be doing most/all of the work myself.
 
Well maybe, if you don't want to send your horse away, how about yourself?! I mean how about doing a bit work experience and training with a good horse trainer near you, maybe over easter? Go and work on their yard, see how they manage their horses, watch them breaking in etc, and ask them loads of questions about your horse.
Most people will be glad of an extra pair of hands who is willing to learn.
I literally rang up an Olympic medallist (sharon hunt), and asked if I could work on their yard for a few weeks, as I want to learn as much as possible. Even got to ride Tankers Town, and I literally asked millions of questions on fittening, feeding etc etc. Recommend it!
 
Please do not lie on the ground in front of a horse. Do you realise the consequences if he just pawed in an inquisitive manner and caught your head? You could be killed... Also I don't think sitting on this horse tied up with no hat, is very clever either, given your description of his behaviour.

If you are determined to work with him yourself, get a trainer to help you. What area are you in and someone will be able to suggest a suitable one.
 
i can tell when my horse is going to do something and he is actually really friendly.the yard i am at just now,all the horses that are on turnout 24/7 are all herded and brought into the yard on a regular basis to be checked over and the owner says he is the frienliest horse out of them all.the only problems i have with him now is leading (which usually is sorted with turnout,so hopefully being turned away will have helped that slightly) and the not moving forward,and for that i will be trying a target through clicker training,when i first take him into the school he usually gallops around and kicks at the same time(when free or leading) but i just do join up for just a few seconds,turn my back and he trots straight up to me,then he stays with me,backs up when i do,turns when i point to his hip/shoulders and backs up when i point to his chest so i will just be doing loads of groundwork (probably start that in the field)then i will start taking him into the school,the only problem though,he has made a good friend which he is always with and i dont know how he will be with leaving that behind,and if thy do get seperated (one of the horses go into another open field) the friend of dominos mainly,will run around neighing.i am in east ayrshire if anyone can recommend a good trainer-prefferably one that will come out to my yard.
 
horse away or have someone to train him who will most likely treat him badly(i have already contacted people inmy area and most of them use whips or some sort of force/abuse,i know alot of people use whips on their horse but there is no point in inflictingpain when it does nothing for the horse anyway, i have said that i will have someone come and guide me along the way but I will be doing most/all of the work myself.

I use a schooling whip when I ride and also when putting BB through his stop start walk etc in hand. I never ever beat him with it.
It's there to support my requests and acts as an extension to my arm. He is not scared if it in any way.
Backing up or moving over for eg I tap his front legs to focus his attention on the body part I need him to move.
I used to have a similar attitude to you to whips but then had a lesson on using it correctly. It was probably the best money I've ever spent.
 
im not saying whips are a bad thing or people that use them are abusing their horse,but i am wanting to find other ways,i havee used a whip a few times but even when you hit him with it he didnt move so i dont see the point in using it,and one of the yards i was at,i brought domino in from the field one day and he had whip marks down one of his sides and that day he was terrified from it,that is the rason i can now do join up (he wouldnt move before) but i felt like sueing the owner or something because nbody should have touched him but if i had proof i would have:mad:
 
Just wanted to say something regarding the knots/spasms.

They can cause a horse to act like this, and vets do not necessarily find them.

I have a mare who i bought with an incredibly bad spasm in her neck due to compensating for an old back injury. I knew she had problems when i bought her, and she was in an awful home so i wanted to help her and rehabiliate her. I should never of bought her, I was 15 wih an unhorsey mum and i thought i knew everything i really didn't.

To begin with her behaviour got worse and worse, then better, then even worse, until she reared vertically as soon as someone sat on her repeatedly until she fell over or they got off. She was seen by a HUGE range of people. You name it, she had it. Full vet work ups, scans, x-rays, ovaries checked, eyes checked, teeth checked, 2 dif saddles, diet changes, chiro, physio, mctimothy, bowen. Turned away. Restarted. Worked harder. Every single report was clear or just a minor common problem. Several highly qualified instructors told
me to sell her.

Sent her away and she was sent back after the rider broke his leg..found someone else
Who wouldn't see her until she had been seen by the lady who still treats her now, who found the spasm. As soon as she started treating her, we could tell she found the problem. Working the muscle was very painful and my mare started biting and kicking. (which for all her faults, she never did). In the end it took several treatments under sedation to get it right, and she needs treatment every 3 months for the rest of her life.

She didn't behaviour right away, she was just as bad initially from remembered pain, but after being sent away for 4 months, and even then sh wasn't perfect, it has taken a good 3 years to get her where she is now which is lovely 98% of the time.


Anyway yeah, just wanted to prove a vet wouldn't necessarily find the problem if it were muscle spasm.

But i do advise, OP, to send him away. When he comes back into work. I sent my pony to an intelligent horsemanship trainer, as getting angry and violent with her only makes her worse. What about one of them? They work using the methods Monty Roberts used, and they like you to come and help. I went weekly (would of more but it was a 60 mile journey) as like they said, they can't 'fix' her and hand her back, i need to learn how to handle her in those methods to ke up the success.

I didn't want to send her away for a VERY long time. I. Wanted to do it myself. I wanted to fix her. Pride or otherwise, I'm not sure, but when i finally accepted that is what i needed to do, things moved forwards.

Had i decided to send her away earlier (had the problem been diagnoses earlier i guess), she might of come back 100% right. Unfortunately, fightin and rearing was her way of life for so long, she will never be completly fixed. Rearing is always her first port of call when she gets upset or in pain. The episodes are rare, but extreme and at times,frankly dangerous. She will never do more than hacking and the odd jump or trot round the school. She is very talented and could of become a top SJ pony, without doubt but she is ruined.

Don't let it get to that point. Good luck, you have his best interests at heart and i think finding the right trainer to send him to, and working with them, would have the best result.
 
I think he needs to be sent away, probably for an extensive length of time, to a professional yard who specialises in youngsters. As the others have said, how you ended up buying a 3 year old for your first horse is beyond me, I've ridden for 18+ years but never owned, but I wouldnt dream of buying a horse much under the age of 7 or 8 simply because I would have no idea what I was doing with a young horse!

You have well and truly over-horsed yourself here, and the poor boy has had a very bad start to life. The question is can you afford a lot of professional help to get him back on track? You would be foolish to do this alone, and foolish to keep moving yards in the hope you will find other horse owners to help you out. Just because these other people own horses does not make them experts either, you need to get a team of professionals to start working properly with you - a good vet, a physio, this massage person (if you had seen a decent vet they should have told you the same thing as the massage therapist told you), equine dentist and a good farrier. Once you have his care sorted and a team of qualified pro's to make sure he is in the best health possible, then at the very least you need weekly lessons with a good instructor, again someone who is good with youngsters to help get you going.

When you bought him, did you have him vetted? Or did you just take the previous owners word that he was fine? Did you ride him when you went to see him? Surely you would have seen these issues when you went to see the horse? If you had him vetted how did none of this come up?

If you can afford it, then send him away to a professional yard to start him again. If you cant afford it, then at the very least find a good instructor to give you weekly lessons. And buy A LOT of books on youngsters and how to break a youngster, it sounds like he basically needs to start again being completely re-backed. I know this isnt what you want to hear but I just cannot see it being possible for someone who has never owned a horse before to re-back and bring on a problem horse like this. You are going to need every book and DVD under the sun, and to spend a lot of money with this massage person or even better, a physio to get these muscle spasms under control. Turning him away for a few months is unlikely to have cured him, chances are he might be a bit better but he is still going to need further help before you can even think about starting to work him again.

Or the better option for the horse (again not what you want to hear) is to be sold, and only sell him to someone who is VERY experienced with youngsters and can give him a chance at a good life. You wont get much for him, if anything to be honest because of his issues, but at least you wont be able to do any more damage to him either.

Sorry if this is a bit harsh, I do think you want to do right by him but honestly I think trying to re-back a problem youngster with no experience of ever owning a horse is an impossible task, and you are only going to cause more problems for him.

Please do not lie on the ground in front of a horse. Do you realise the consequences if he just pawed in an inquisitive manner and caught your head? You could be killed... Also I don't think sitting on this horse tied up with no hat, is very clever either, given your description of his behaviour.

If you are determined to work with him yourself, get a trainer to help you. What area are you in and someone will be able to suggest a suitable one.

Agree with both these....from the sounds of it you are a VERY inexperienced horse owner...and you CANNOT do this alone - please please please for god's sake definitely get someone professional to help you; a vet, physio, dentist, farrier, trainer need to work as a team WITH YOU to tackle these problems. this poor horse has had a horrendous start to life and needs help.

Your heart is in the right place and you obviously love this horse dearly (and he looks very cute and loving) however you will ruin him (sounds exaggerated but it is true...) without decent help; he needs professionals, not a novice ''having a go'' and ''seeing what happens'' - you probably only really have one shot at getting this right and truly starting him from scratch

Listen to all the advice everyone has given you, it is all in you and your horse's best interests :)

Best of luck to you and I hope you solve the issues
 
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