Starting horses too young??

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It could just be me getting old but when I was growing up and learning about horses horses weren't broken in until they were 4. Also they were a certain age and that was it.

Now I see horses for sale being ridden in the school at two and jumping at three. Also what is with horses being described as rising three or rising four? Surely that makes them either two or three? Is all of this wrong and are people just rushing horses or have things changed?
 
I describe one of mine as rising 7. The fact he is a big slow grower and not born until late July means he is more babyish than id expect a February born to be yet traditionally the same age.
 
I completely lost respect for someone I know, who's opinion I previously actively sought, after she was going on about how proud she was of her new project that he could school circles in canter and do roadwork on busy main roads at the grand age of two. Told her I thought she was completely out of order, her response was that he's already 14.2, so up to her 8 1/2 stone for schooling 4 times a week and llunging the other days. He's going to be sold on anyway, so won't be her problem if he breaks down.
 
I think it depends on the horse and what they are like. But I'd certainly never sit on anything under 3 1/2yrs old, and that's only just to back. My cobs just turned 3, he's so eager, he opens his mouth for a bit, and looks a bit miffed if I get the tack out to ride my older boy. And he loves going for inhand hacks. But il only be leaning over his back and long reining him until the winter, then il sit up on him a few times and walk him round. Then turn him away until he's 4, and bring him back slowley.
 
In showing circles yes, I'd expect the black & white horses is either 2 or 3 or 4 that year etc... so you would never buy a July foal as they wouldn't have grown very big by the time the show season starts. You'd go out and look for an early foal to get the size advantage.

But if you are planning on doing other things I think ACTUAL age has an impact therefore worth considering as physiological maturity has an impact on the future development of the horse.

In racing, all tb's birthdays are on 1st January whether or not they were born then but breeders try to time them as close to this date as possible going to such lengths as artificially bringing mares into season...

It depends how considerate you are to the horse or to the world you conform to.
 
I think breeds vary in their rate of development, eg TBs are faster to develop than WBs, however, I think there's a worrying trend to do too much too soon, often to increase the value of a horse. I especially worry about the 4 year old classes that are very popular, these horses in dressage and eventing are competing at quite a high level for their physical and mental maturity and long term, I'm not entirely confident that it doesn't harm them.
 
I hate it and see no point what soever of backing and turning away Just wait until the animal is fully developed at about 4- 4.5 then get on with it.
What is more backing young is far more likely to damage a horse than an older horse being ridden by an overweight rider no matter how light you are
 
oldie48 said:
I think breeds vary in their rate of development, eg TBs are faster to develop than WBs, however, I think there's a worrying trend to do too much too soon, often to increase the value of a horse. I especially worry about the 4 year old classes that are very popular, these horses in dressage and eventing are competing at quite a high level for their physical and mental maturity and long term, I'm not entirely confident that it doesn't harm them.
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Hmmm.... quite. And you never know if the youngster is actually 4 or it's actually still 3yo....
 
windand rain said:
I hate it and see no point what soever of backing and turning away Just wait until the animal is fully developed at about 4- 4.5 then get on with it.
What is more backing young is far more likely to damage a horse than an older horse being ridden by an overweight rider no matter how light you are
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Depends entirely what "backing" means to a person... the introduction of tack, bit, long-reigning can be better introduced gradually than having to take it all in at once... equally I can't see it making much difference just to do it all at once in the 4th year. I guess it depends on the individual human, which way is best for them timewise/facilities wise/etc etc...

Dont believe there is a right or wrong unless the young animal is being put under force or pressure beyond its capability.
 
My horse is rising 3, had all tack on and currently being long reined... However, I won't be leaning over or sitting on him untill he is at least 3 and a half. He enjoys being in work and goes grumpy when he's been off a few days.. He's only lon reined 2-3 times a week for about 15 mins a time an seems to enjoy it.
 
Not backing doesn't mean not training!! Every horse rider/person needs to read Dr. Debs Ranger article about the development of the horses skeleton.....the last part of the horse's skeleton to mature is the spine - right where our weight goes when we sit on them!! And that doesn't happen until 6/7 years old regardless of breed, height or amount of 'bone'!!! As for the 'rising' expression it means 'nearly' so 'rising 7' means the horse is perhaps 6 3/4....remembering that Jan 1st is their birthday in the Northern hemisphere and August 1st in the southern!!!
 
I started b1 as she turned 3 but she's an august foal and we lunged long reined and played with tack for the summer, dragged tyres and sledges about in deep winter and ambled about on tip during spring introducing hills distances and schooling over summer just before she turned 4 then we introduced pokes and jumping very slowly.
 
I think folk are in too much of a hurry nowadays and as horses are increasingly expensive to keep there seems to be this drive to not have a horse sat in a field doing nothing other than growing - it must earn its keep!!:rolleyes:
All horses mature at the same rate regardless of breed as studies have clearly shown it - their weight bearing growth plates don't fuse till they are 4, but some breeds are bred to look mature at an earlier age like TBs, WBs etc giving the illusion they are a big strapping horse when in fact they are at their most fragile growth wise, and yet folk will happiliy lunge 2/3/4yr olds which just makes me cringe as I can just imagine the joints grinding - eeee!!!
I lost my rag a bit I have to say at a supposed professional trainer on a FB group the other day as he was saying the younger you start lunging a youngster on a 6m cirlce the better as there is less strain on their joints - go figure!!! - and this was on a friesian page where the breed is renowned fo getting OCD!! I actually had to delete some of my post as I was that short, the fact the fellow also refered to a 2yr old colt as a stallion always rings alarm bells with me - call me cynical but maybe it sounds more macho perhaps than saying you're breaking a baby colt!!:rolleyes:

And I think folk refer to horses as rising whatever age if they are late born foals but I never see the point after the horse is say 6 as who cares as it will have caught up mentally and physically by then so why not say it's 7 rather than rising 7 - maybe folk think if the horse sounds younger it will be worth more or forgive it the fact it may not have done as much as some horses of a similar age?
 
Perhaps we need to think about what a horses spine is designed to do for the horse? In my somewhat limited understanding it is for flexibility, carry nerves (spinal cord) and hang organs/tissue off. It actually wasn't designed to carry weight from above. If Dr Deb Bennett is correct it raises some serious questions about when (what age) and how we back and ride horses. Surely preparation and age much be huge factors?

The thinking that if a horse is a certain size it is strong enough is a non starter for me personally, we could ride Shires at months old if that was actually a good argument. :rolleyes:
 
To be fair it's not just TB's who go by January 1st. Most warmblood registries do as well and for purposes of sport the same. Like age classes. Your warmblood turns 5 in June. You don't get to show in 4yo classes til he turns 5.

At any rate. Here is my view if you have a 3 or a 4 yo standing around on an acre of sparse grass and a muzzle because they' re sooooo fat you aren't preventing any damage by not sympathetically starting them.

Always "back in the day......." . Well back in the day most horses were chucked out til 4 with very little done which is a good thing. They did not eat super balancers and were not gtazing on super grasses. They got very little hard feed, maybe a salt lick. Most likely looked like crap in the winter and good in summer. They also had big fields to roam. Built muscle too.

I don't like starting 2yo's and don't. I have one actual 3yo. She'll do a little bit this summer about 5 weeks. It will not kill or harm her. She will not be doing courses of fences and flying changes at the end.

There is more than one way to damage a horse. Starting at a certain age because the joints close blah blah blah. Horses need exercise. Being too fat can do just as much damage to joints as starting badly. Standing around most of the day isn't real good for them either. Proper exrecise is good for bones, joints, muscles, ligaments ect. Metabloism is changing in 3yo's as well so that needs to be considered too.

The whole picture needs addressed. Not one part.

Terri
 
I've got a young horse, he's actually just 2. The fact he's 3 next month doesn't change the fact he's still 2 today. I really don't like people saying they are rising 3/4...whatever. I know in any other hands my baby would be broken to harness by now and hammered down the roads for miles. The amount of people who ask me if I've been on his back yet is starting to wear a bit thin! The type of people who ask tend to have fields full of coloureds who do nothing with them.

In reality he's a baby, still got a lot of growing to do and I'm in no rush. I'm working on the foundation of his education through daily interacting and ground work but I intend to give him the best start in life I can....and that means I have to wait until he's mentally and physically ready and able to go onto the next stage of his life. Plus to be honest, he's a boy so a bit slow bless him. It's like he's on dial up and not broadband! lol

I have another older cob too, I never sat on her until she was 4 and now she's 13 and doing just fine.
 
oldie48 said:
I think breeds vary in their rate of development, eg TBs are faster to develop than WBs
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Wrong, wrong, wrong. :p

Alyth said:
Not backing doesn't mean not training!! Every horse rider/person needs to read Dr. Debs Ranger article abot the development of the horses skeleton.....the last part of the horse's skeleton to mature is the spine
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It's a fantastic article. http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_2008/ranger_piece_2008_pdf1.pdf

Alexart, I agree with you.



Equilibrium Ireland said:
The whole picture needs addressed. Not one part.

Terri
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Very true.
 
cblover said:
I've got a young horse, he's actually just 2. The fact he's 3 next month doesn't change the fact he's still 2 today. I really don't like people saying they are rising 3/4...whatever. I know in any other hands my baby would be broken to harness by now and hammered down the roads for miles. The amount of people who ask me if I've been on his back yet is starting to wear a bit thin! The type of people who ask tend to have fields full of coloureds who do nothing with them.

In reality he's a baby, still got a lot of growing to do and I'm in no rush. I'm working on the foundation of his education through daily interacting and ground work but I intend to give him the best start in life I can....and that means I have to wait until he's mentally and physically ready and able to go onto the next stage of his life. Plus to be honest, he's a boy so a bit slow bless him. It's like he's on dial up and not broadband! lol

I have another older cob too, I never sat on her until she was 4 and now she's 13 and doing just fine.
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No, officially your horse is 3 - and that is exactly why people often say rising 3, because they know that officially their horse is three and most in the horse industry would refer their to their horse as a 3 year old, but in reality it is actually two.
 
There was a time when people trained by rote. "That's the way my grandfather did it and that's good enough for me". The method didn't require discussion because that was the way things were done. Period!

Hopefully, there is a better understanding of psychology and physiology these days and far better communications and access to information than years ago! In my day, we kept our mouths shut and our ears open and certainly did not discuss different ways of doing things.

Young animals can learn and accept some things but not others simply because their brains are not fully developed. Much the same physically. Obviously, you don't over stress a young body.

I would hope an intelligent trainer would use all that knowledge, plus experience, to judge when it is safe to do what he is attempting to do. There is no doubt that young animals accept new ideas and are easier to train than old ones. But that is a two edged sword. Make a mistake with a youngster and it could cause a problem that will last for life.

We took two youngsters here (3 and 2.5 years) from tacking up to ridden away in a handful of afternoons. But they'd been regularly handled and de-sensitised since weaning and the rider was both very experienced and (hope she doesn't read this!:D) rather small. I can see nothing but good coming from such solid and early foundations. Obviously, both still have a lot to learn but they won't forget the early lessons either.On the other hand, I've had the "untouched and unspoilt" type and you can keep 'em!:D

Just because something is old and well tried doesn't mean it's better. And the fools, like the poor, will always be with us!:rolleyes:
 
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Just to clarify I am not saying that nothing should be done until 4 just very little in the way of ridding work/school work until then. As I said I have seen 3 and 4 yr olds cantering 20m circles and jumping and that just seems wrong to me.

I know the argument about racing but thats a whole other thread of wrongness IMHO!
 
DabDab - my horse is absolutely not 'officially' 3 until his third birthday. So in actual fact he is 2 as today stands. I'm 45 this year but I'm sure as hell not going to tell people i'm rising 45, because the fact is i'm 44.

He was bought to be a pleasure horse and I'm in no rush to make out he's older than he is.....I wouldn't want to wish his life away. He's very special to me and we've been through a lot.

Also, I met up with Becky Holden who visited my place recently and asked how old he was....I said he was 2. Then she asked when his birthday was...I told her. Her reply was 'how refreshing it is to hear someone telling me the actual age of their horse for a change'. I took that as a compliment!
 
cblover said:
DabDab - my horse is absolutely not 'officially' 3 until his third birthday. So in actual fact he is 2 as today stands. I'm 45 this year but I'm sure as hell not going to tell people i'm rising 45, because the fact is i'm 44.

He was bought to be a pleasure horse and I'm in no rush to make out he's older than he is.....I wouldn't want to wish his life away. He's very special to me and we've been through a lot.

Also, I met up with Becky Holden who visited my place recently and asked how old he was....I said he was 2. Then she asked when his birthday was...I told her. Her reply was 'how refreshing it is to hear someone telling me the actual age of their horse for a change'. I took that as a compliment!
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I was merely explaining why a lot of people use the 'rising' terminology with horses where they wouldn't with something like a dog. And by officially I meant the age it would be considered to be for official purposes - as in your horse would be eligible for 3yo classes but not eligible for 2yo classes :)
 
My horse had a rider on his back at three. I bought him as a 4 year old. I always thought 3 and 4 was the "right age", from reading pony magazines when I was a kid :o

But at my current farm they are busy training their 2 year olds to drive. Another horse there had a rider on her at 2. She was then turned away and brought back into work at 3. To me this is too soon and unfair on the horse.
 
My 3yo boy has been almost feral til this year. Lightly handled but mainly just turned away to play. Now we're bringing him in for a couple of hours most days so he's having a lot more groundwork and leading practice. He's worn a saddle once and my 5 stone young jockey has sat on him bareback twice. He's never had a bit in his mouth and won't until he has a wolf tooth extracted in the summer. He's a well mannered and polite young man and physically very balanced at the moment. He is in perfect condition and well muscled from natural exercise - play fights and races with his best buddy who is also a young gelding. He leads very nicely and now spends regular periods in the riding paddock where he happily walks around the jumps and over poles on the ground. We plan to continue this education through the summer and autumn, then he'll be turned away again for winter. Next spring, when he actually turns 4, he will hopefully be ready to be backed and ridden properly.

Yesterday my OH was watching the 2yo fillies race at Ascot, and it just made me cringe :(
 
My colored cob was started at three yrs and did long reining to start with and progressed onto light ridden work in the form of hacking in the autumn of her third year
 
Sorry phone

then turned away over winter and started up again in the spring .
I fell pregnant and she had a whole ten months back.
Been back in work a while now,she's five, she's alot strongr and mentally more mature.
My Welsh is three yrs he is being long reined and wearing tack but he's looking immature and tack, unlikely Will be backed this year. Will chucked away in Autumn till next spring.
 
cob&onion said:
Sorry phone

then turned away over winter and started up again in the spring .
I fell pregnant and she had a whole ten months back.
Been back in work a while now,she's five, she's alot strongr and mentally more mature.
My Welsh is three yrs he is being long reined and wearing tack but he's looking immature and tack, unlikely Will be backed this year. Will chucked away in Autumn till next spring.
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That sounds fine to me its people doing a lot more and a lot of work in the school I have issues with
 
I have a very beautifully bred Trakhener gelding. I've had him since he was 17 months. I always knew he was going to be big, didn't realise quite how big however!! He was very gently 'backed' at 3 - long reining around the yard and fields. We did approx 3 weeks work (long reining), 3/4 times a week, then he was turned away for 6 weeks, then we did another 3 week stint, ending up with a rider sitting on him. No school work as such. He was then turned away for a year - totally turned away with company. He came back to the yard this last May where we started again, very slowly. He remembered everything, I even started long reining him in the field with his companion before I boxed him back to the yard.

Everything is taken extremely slowly with this boy - I'm starting some school work, but only lunge/school once a week, the other 3 times a week he's either hacked out round our gallops or long reined.

He's kept relatively lean on vets instruction as he is such a big boy, and I am under no illusion that he won't mature until around 7/8 years. He'll be turned away again around October time until May 2014 and brought back into work as a five year old.

I've changed my trainer as my previous one wanted us to progress too quickly, I now have a much more sympathetic trainer who realises that taking a big horse slowly is the way to go. Her comment was, you can hoik him in at the front, he'll look fabulous and do well, but in three years time you'll have lameness issues. Take him slowly now, get all the basics correct - straightness, forwardness and totally off my seat and leg, and you'll have a horse that will last for a much longer time.



As you can see he's got so much more filling out to do - especially his back end. I lunge him using the kavalkade ho, literally for about 10 minutes, on enormous circles using two lines, so long rein in between. He's currently around 17.2. It's very very tempting to go too fast with him as he has the most amazing temperament and work ethic.
 
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