Starting toilet training at five months?

[frb]

I have seen a border terrier that i would like, but she has only lived outside, never been indoors so no toilet training has been done. Is it too late to start? Have never had a puppy before so this is all new and tbh am quite scared!
Any tips/opinions/advice please!!!

 

[Louby]

No advice Im afraid but just wanted to tell you about the pups at the stables as they live outside too. They had paper in half there large kennel/run and still have (at 11mth old) I would say the last 2 mths they have 85% toilet trained themselves, as in hardly any mess, if any at all in the morning. They are let out regulary and have a poo/wee straight away. They did used to pee in the house when let in as they didnt know any different. I havent any experience at all but reckon you could sort her out.

 

[merlinsquest]

I had two boxer dogs from a breeder (at different times though).... one was four when we had her..... no chance of training her.... we actually had to tie her to the upstairs banister when we went to be or she would poo at the bottom of the stairs

Second dog was 9 months old and although she got clean all the time we were there to let her out, she never made it to being clean when we were out of the house..... infact she used to be filthy

and sometimes overnight too... we used to wake up and take a deep breath to see if we dared go downstairs

The Schnauzer we have now we had from a pup and we have never had any problems at all with him..... infact on rare occasions he has been left for 11 hours (not good I know) and still hasnt needed to go straight away when we got home

New puppy arrives in two weeks time...... oh I do hope she is easy too.

But I wouldnt go for another older dog again

They live too long to be dirty

 

[frb]

Bugger.

Any other thoughts peeps?

 

[merlinsquest]

Sorry

But yours may be fine

Perhaps I am just crap at training

 

[frb]

I dare say you are not MQ

I have no experience with puppies and work pretty much full time as does OH so cannot be consistant with her. Sometimes we can be at home with her in the day, sometimes she will be out in the car with me for the day, sometimes she will be alone or with next door's dogs, so her routine will change from day to day. Hum, am so scared, would like a little dog and have come close but keep bottling it due to not wanting house to be a loo, and have to have my clients come to my house.
Somebody slap me, becoming hysterical.

 

[merlinsquest]

If your routine is that inconsistant, would you be better with an older dog that is already house broken??

I am panicking about our new addition and I only work 2 days a week and Zak already comes with me... puppy will too.

Like you, I cant stand the thought of failing or of having a toilet house

Can understand fully why you want a puppy though..... I love borders

 

[frb]

Have considered this and that is the route we were going down, but hard to find one that isn't 200 miles away and won't eat my cats.
Then my farrier made the mistake of telling me about this one and buggered it all up again!
I would post a pic if i could work out the whole photobucket/photo thing and i could figure out how to get the pic off my poxy phone.
Oh dear, scared, pathetic and rubbish! Need another slap.
toddles off for more wine...

 

[kirstyhen]

Not too late at all! Otto was five months old when we got him, and unless he gets stressy he is clean in the house.

Get a crate, one just big enough for the dog, if it is too big they will mess at one end and sleep at the other, but if it is small enough they will be very reluctant to mess where they sleep.

When we first got Otto we took him outside every two hours, lots of fuss when he did something. Everytime he got out of his cage/woke up/ate/drank, he went straight outside. If he did have an accident in the house, no fuss, straight outside, lots of praise when he did it outside.

He now asks to go outside. It has taken 4 months to get him to the point of being clean in the house, and IMO he still isn't completely house trained.

ETA - Otto had lived in a stable until we got him, so had no concept of house training at all, in fact he had no concet of a house!

 

[frb]

Thanks H!
Another question for those with cats who then introduced a dog for the first time, how did cats react? One of my cats is a confident little person, but my beloved felix has a heart condition and is timid, and quite intolerant! Am i am mean mummy to do this to him?

 

[Lucy_Nottingham]

my cats HATE beau with a passion and they have been around him since he was 8 weeks old and smaller than them, they hissed and went for him then, and still do now, only now he is big enough to stand up to them.
My cat will stand his ground, but my sisters cat runs off (which with a border collie is not good) BUT she is getting better

my housemates cat however is the boss! and a number of other people I know have the cat as the boss....... so could go one way or the other.....

Its kind of a hit or miss thing I think! I would have though though if you got a crate and started from square one you should be able to house train! but also keep mind open to the fact it might NOT work as well....

 

[kirstyhen]

My parents have a cat and 6 dogs, but we had two dogs first and introduced the kitten, the 4 dogs that came later were introduced to the cat as puppies.
The cat is the boss, no question, our dogs adore the cat, to the point that they run to his aid if he is having a scrap in the garden.

Otto is not used to cats, and therefore tries to chase the cat when I visit my parents, but the cat just looks at him in disgust and sits still. It is very funny!

I would make sure you give your cats somewhere to escape to, for example put a stairgate up so the cats can escape up the stairs but the dog can't follow. Apart from that I have no other ideas, where's CALA when you need her

 

[CAYLA]

Very good advice from Hen......see u don't really need me

As suggested, u can train a 5month old puppy, u may even be suprised and she might be clean, not all outside dogs will mess indoors, in fact because they have had to use outside for the toilet and never had the "crap in the house option"

she may know instinctivly know where to go, always give her plenty of opportunity and get a routine established asap, the crate is a fab triaining aid as Henmeister suggests, not only can it aid u to introduce a place to leave her when unsupervised/for bed/to help toilet train and for safety with the cats, they are fab, get one asap before u get her.
And don't feel bad about her being in there and let her out all the time at first, because if you don't perfect the routine and the crate introduction, the problems that can occur with lack of training, i.e destruction, seperation anxiety, toilet training problems, will have u in despair

Try to introduce a crate routine asap, don't make the mistake of letting her spend every minute with you, then only place her in the crate when u are out, otherwise it wont work, she will prob just cry.
Feed all her meals in the crate, give her long lasting treats and get a kong, all this can be given in the crate to help her assosiate it with a positive place to be, and always try to wear her out and burn off some energy b4 placing her in for long periods.
Everytime u release her, no fuss or humungus welcome home party

, straight to toilet, this way u are introducing a routine for her toilet times without giving her chance to start to dirty around the house, and she will eventually make her own way to the door when u let her out of the crate, at first restrict all of her access around the house, only allow her access to the room u are in at the time, so if she does go to pass a motion, u can corrrect her, simply pick her up and place her outside to the toilet area, if you let her run from room to room unsupervised, u cannot keep an eye on her or correct/guide her in the right direction.

Re cats...they are the boss, and they say when it's time/or they feel they want to mix, as suggested already get a baby gate, as she is a baby, I would personally not worry to much about her inflicting serious damage, but any sign of her getting over selous or barking, reprimand her immediately, she must learn that the consiquence for this behaviour, comes as a reprimand from you, and be firm with it, if the cat has to reprimand, she could loose an eye

, she will no doubt see them as play pals, they however won't recipricate that, but they will come round eventually, the more she sees them in a clam manor the better she will get, I usually feed my cats in the area the dogs are crated, and give them something to chew on in the crate, this way both animals are calm and getting used to each other presence in a non over exited manor.
Never make a grab for the cat, let the cat escape and grab the dog if an excited situation occurs, the cat will stress and is liable to bite or scratch u in panick, u will then drop the cat, and tend to your wounds in agony, hence letting go of the dog

Always try to tire her out before spending time with u and the cats in the same room, again she will be in lower energy state and less likey to bouce around like a loon

Writers block

Im not going back through that lot for spelling either

 

[CAYLA]

Also to add

as Hen suggests anyway, small crate, one for a border terrier size, not doberman

the smaller the crate for the size comparison the easier to train

 

[Oneofthepack]

I have always had unhousetrained adult dogs and some have been a bit tough. For instance Dillon only ever went to the toilet in the house, on the bed and on the sofa etc for 3 weeks because that's what he and his mum, dad and 6 litter mates had done for the past year..... but they do learn with consistant encouragement.

I find the best way is keep taking them outside, and do it on walks too, wait til they wee or poo and say the word wee wee or poo in a very high pitched excited voice (the neighbours will think you're barking mad but hey ho

) give lots of praise and a treat and it's amazing how quick they learn. I never smack if they do it in inside or rub their noses in it, just say firmly no if you catch them and take them outside. They all wee and poo on command now

Re the cat, you'll just have to make it very clear from the word go that the cat is off limits. My poor cat lives semi outside because of the dogs and it's been a bit of a nightmare for him a but I compensate by making him cosy beds away from the dogs and giving him lots of love.

 

[TarrSteps]

Mine was about four months when we got him and he'd come from essentially an outdoor pen so far as we know. So while he understood not to mess where he slept and ate, he didn't get the idea of "outside", rather just using a separate area. This made it a bit of a trick because he didn't get the idea of going "out" but he did want to sneak away and go where he couldn't be seen, not to be sneaky just because that's what his instinct told him to do. He also didn't have the advantage of learning from a house broken mother or other dogs, which I think IS a big advantage for a puppy.

As the good advice above, we did use a crate and kept it in a separate room he could be confined to as an intermediate step between the crate (which he outgrew too soon, on account of getting much larger and growing much faster than the rescue predicted) but the biggest issue was always keeping him in sight in the house and if he made a move to the door, letting him out then as well as his regular routine trips. It took awhile and tried my patience, I'll admit, but I really wanted him to be absolutely clean in the house so I just kept reminding myself what an important and tricky skill it was for him to master! He is naturally clean and would prefer to go in private if possible, which did make it easier than it might have been with a dog that just didn't care.

On the cat front, he's a breed that's notoriously difficult to have with cats (so much so we've heard some real horror stories) so we took it very seriously, especially since our cat is not very forward. There are rules - they eat in the same are but always the cat first, no running or playing together in the house etc. - but the big one is I'm boss. If I say no that's it and if he even looks funny at the cat he gets a warning. By the same token the cat doesn't get to push the envelope with him either and we don't play with the cat when he's around, just in case. The other thing we're careful to do is never let them out at the same time, although they can be out in the garden together if the cat is calm. (She stays right away all by herself if he's not calm!) I wouldn't trust him with strange cats, although he's been gratifyingly uninterested in cats he's met at yards etc.

So yes, very possible. But I do think it's a big commitment and I was lucky enough to be able to be home a lot when the dog was a puppy. Now he comes with me all day so I guess, technically speaking, house training is not a huge part of his life.

Is the puppy coming from a breeder? Perhaps ask how people they've sold dogs to have coped with the situation before? They also, as Cala mentioned, be regularly letting the dogs out to relieve themselves so it is possible he already understands the concept of "going out" even though he doesn't technically live inside.

 

[frb]

Thank you everyone for your replies and support.
Puppy is from my slightly dodgy farrier

 

[fmay]

One of our border terrier bitches became a house dog at age 3 after her kennel companion had to be pts. I started by taking her outside even more often than I would with a puppy and she was house trained within days and we haven't had any problems with her

 

[brightmount]

I got my Yorkshire Terrier from a rescue centre at 8 months. He had been there 6 months living in an outdoor pen. Prior to that he had been in a soiled crate at a puppy farm.

What with being a Yorkie you would think there was no hope for him, but he was house trained in no time. We didn't crate train him due to his early trauma with being contained in a crate, but I haven't crate trained any of my dogs. We just took him outside regularly, used the "busy" command when he cocked his leg, and lots of praise.