Stay on or dismount...

FfionWinnie said:
I would stay on in all situations because in my opinion if you get off the horse has won.

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When on a bolting racehorse that has already run through TWO closed gates I didn't give a stuff about winning the argument, I had never been scared on a horse, ever, but that day I sat there wondering, very calmly, if it was going to hurt to die. I just wanted to be alive :( Perhaps bailing out into a hedge wasn't brave, or clever, but in the event I got up, the horse wiped out big time on a corner and if I'd still been on him I would have hit a brick wall from a flat out gallop.

It turned out that the horse had a tumour, no arguing with a brain which had burned out. :(
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From my experiences, no I don't dismount, as I feel I have far greater control on the horse than on the ground, especially when riding out. I figure they have to work a lot harder to spit me out the side, than to yank the reins from my hands and be off down the road.

Each to their own, if you are not comfortable to stay on or know dismounting gives you greater control in a dangerous situation, then hop off. I'd just be careful not to make it the automatic response every time should the horse begin to play up. As we know, they are very clever!

I did hop off a horse not that long ago. It wasn't mine, had a reputation as being a pig, and I was doing the owner a favour. Jumped on, worked nicely for 10 minutes before spitting the dummy for no reason. We were in a biggish paddock and no one knew the horse well enough to judge just what it was capable of. I calmed him down a bit and hopped off, it wasn't worth risking my neck.
 
I agree with those saying it depends on the horse and situation. When my pony was just starting out hacking we had a route that took us over a small stone bridge over a ditch from one field to the next. There was another ditch to our left and the field we were going into contained pens of pigs. Every time we went over it he would spooky, spin, try and canter the other way. I found it tricky to have the arguement with him because of the ditches. One day he started arguing and I hopped off, lead him straight across like a lamb and got back on the other side, no drama, no big deal. After that it seemed to break the cycle of us stopping in the same place each time and he was much improved.

In scenarios where he's spooked at something and there hasn't been the worry of a ditch I've sat it out and had the arguement.
 
I think it's completely down to horse/ rider combination. To say stay on always is a bit of a sweeping statement. The experience of Enfys above proves that sometimes self preservation dictates that you bail out, but that was an extreme situation. What I am concerned about are the amount of riders out hacking amongst traffic on
horses that for whatever reason regularly cause that rider to get off. I believe that these horses for the majority of the time simply lose confidence in the ability of their rider to take care of them. They pick up so quickly on our confidence and a horse that believes we are not in control will start to make it's own decisions, and that will always be bad news.
At the risk of offending and upsetting I will go as far as to say if a rider is not confident about riding a horse out and staying in control of that horse in all but the most extreme conditions then either rider, horse or both is not ready to be hacking out.
As many experienced riders above have said, sometimes the unexpected presents itself and you have no choice, but generally to take a horse out with the full knowledge that you are not able/willing to ride it on through day to day situations is not the best idea. The situation will only get worse, and it's not usually the
horse being clever and realising it can win, more the horse realising you can't be relied on to be in charge and he/ she must take responsibility for their own safety, which for a horse means avoid all things that worry it and, in their mind threaten that safety. When they are making their own decisions in a tricky situation they ate totally selfish, they come first, you don't matter.
I really don't mean to sound harsh but the mix of unreliable horse and rider relationship should not be out mixing with the lethal machinery of today's traffic, it's not fair to anyone. Stay in a safe place until you are confident enough to push through the issues and if that can't happen, I think it's time to wonder if maybe it's a case of being over horsed or if not, accept that hacking out is not possible at this stage and maybe never.
 
Sarah1 said:
I find this all very interesting. I wonder why some horses feel more confident with their rider walking along side than on board? What's the difference? Is it the flight thing? Do they forget who is in the saddle & think their rider is a monster?! Really interesting...
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Not sure about others, but my oldie is a different horse on the ground. In hand he is a donkey, calm and more interested in eating weeds and watching the world go by. Get on his back and he gets excited, even now at 36, head goes up ears prick cant wait to be off. I wouldn't have got off him in the last 10 years or so. But the 20 years before that I did occasionally.

For example we once went for a hack, came back and one of those machines which scrape tarmac off had appeared. No way round it, dreadul noise, dust, other machines etc. Nothing on this earth would have made him walk through that lot with me on his back. In hand he strolled through it, genuinely interested in what these strange people were doing :D
 
Dismount. I am a very nervous and novice rider, but I am good on the ground, they can chuck a paddy in hand and I just deal with it no bother. On board I will freeze, become a wreck and fall off.
 
I prefer to stay on...but sometimes my little firey welsh dragon throws so many toys out of the pram when his knickers are in a twist that it is quicker and easier to get off and lead the little darling past the demon with 50 heads that is going to eat him!!!
Just depends on the circumstances really, you wont make, cajole or bribe him past anything once the coil is truly sprung, so getting off works in those circumstances for me because he calms down a lot if I walk next to him putting myself between him and the horse eating monster.
I do love my little welshie dragon!!!
 
Normally stay on unless I'm coming off either way! Only time I deliberately got off was when my TB mare started rearing whilst facing up a steep hill, she had a tendency to sit down whilst rearing so really didn't fancy being underneath her if she did go over.
 
ribbons said:
I really don't mean to sound harsh but the mix of unreliable horse and rider relationship should not be out mixing with the lethal machinery of today's traffic, it's not fair to anyone. Stay in a safe place until you are confident enough to push through the issues and if that can't happen, I think it's time to wonder if maybe it's a case of being over horsed or if not, accept that hacking out is not possible at this stage and maybe never.
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Well, that leaves us out of the accusation then as we hack in the middle of nowhere :rolleyes:. To assume that problems or situations arise solely as a result of lack of confidence of either horse or rider is not only naive, but to assume that you not only know the situations that everybody finds themselves in, but the causes of their 'problems' - and therefore the answers (sell your horse or stay on the yard :rolleyes:).

My horse is still young and 90% of the time has to hack alone - and (in my opinion), because I've not allowed a situation to develop to the point where I've needed to 'nip it in the bud' or 'push through it', she's now all the calmer and more trusting.

Everybody, their situations, their horses are different - and it's them and them alone who make the decision as to what is the best way for them to handle a situation - and also whether or not they are over horsed or fit to be let out.
 
I can assure you I'm not naive. Neither did I at any point suggest the problem was solely a result of lack of confidence, but it often is.
I'm sorry if I've ruffled feathers but I feel very strongly about the mix of total confidence and experience when riding out on the roads, unless the horse is riding school type and 100% couldn't care less what goes on around it.
 
ribbons said:
I can assure you I'm not naive. Neither did I at any point suggest the problem was solely a result of lack of confidence, but it often is.
I'm sorry if I've ruffled feathers but I feel very strongly about the mix of total confidence and experience when riding out on the roads, unless the horse is riding school type and 100% couldn't care less what goes on around it.
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Feathers not ruffled :), just trying to point out that ***** doesn't just happen on the roads and only as a result of traffic - there's a whole myriad of stuff that can cause a horse to go into a meltdown and only the rider knows the best way for them to recover the situation.

Though in fairness, I only quoted part of your post and in the part I didn't quote you did say 'I believe that these horses for the majority of the time simply lose confidence in the ability of their rider to take care of them.', - and which is rather rather different to what you have just said above.
 
Well, I'm riding out on my relatively green pony alone. She's pretty good, but doesn't have much experience of roads and traffic. So I might be seen walking with her along one road, then I'll hop on when we get to the woods, then stay on for a bit of road with good visibility and room for vehicles to pass. As she's reacting less to traffic and becoming less easily distracted the time in the saddle is increasing. If something really worries her then she definitely gets a bit braver if I'm on the ground with her. Just guessing, but if we are on top and driving them forward we're expecting them to go "first". If we're beside or in front of them then certainly for some that could give them more sense of being given a lead or "leadership"? If we're riding with a friend and a young horse gets worried we often ask the experienced horse to come alongside or in front to help, but when we're riding along we can't do that. Just pondering really...
If people see us out and think I'm mad, inexperienced or simply not up to the job that's their problem.
I suppose I've got a slightly different perspective on things because I probably do more work on the ground than many would (nothing wrong with that, just a matter of approach). When I've got that 12ft rope in my hand I'm pretty certain that I'm not going to lose her, for sure no more likely to lose control than if she got scared witless when I was on top. As for being able to remount if I've got off it's simply not an issue. I've got a dodgy knee so all of mine will sidle up alongside anything I perch on, be it a gate, log, or just a higher bit of bank. When I'm really rough they will also put up with being asked to stand beside something so that I don't have to drop so far when I dismount. In fact, when I'm really rough I can't put weight in a stirrup, so they put up with me scrabbling on board with no stirrups at all, which really requires some patience on their part, love them.
 
I've dismounted once or twice when I couldn't get my horse to walk past a tractor for love nor money. As I was holding the farmer up I decided to dismount, he just strolled past. He's not normally afraid of them but this one had spikes on the front that he didn't like.
 
I've only got off once and that's because the horse was getting in a right tizz about the flies and as I was nearly back I thought it would be fairer for him if I got off and walked by his head to try and help swat away flies. Also, I wasn't sure if he was about to rear up and with customers on a trek behind me and my slight lack of confidence I felt safer walking.
 
Do you think sex has anything to do with it? The old saying of 'tell a gelding, ask a mare & discuss it with a stallion'?!
The reason I ask is because I have recently purchased a little mare for my daughter & although I don't ride her (she's 9hh so def would be in trouble for pony squishing! :D) I have noticed she needs far more reassurance, in general, than my gelding - I've put this down to the fact that she's new but I wonder if there's something more to this...
My boy is a super lad & for myself I really wouldn't have anything other than a gelding (and in fact ideally wanted a gelding for my daughter but along came Strawberry!), he very much needs and likes to be told what to do (for the most part - he has his moments where he thinks he's knows enough and you can't teach him anything! :rolleyes:). I know when he's trying it on & a firm hand is needed in those situations, however, when he's genuinely worried I tend to back off a bit and be more gentle & very quiet with him. With the new little mare I've found myself having to behave totally differently from the off - she needs reassurance and a no nonsense attitude only exacerbates a tense situation, I don't know if this is due to the fact that she's a mare or because she's smaller & therefore feels a bit intimidated by adults...she's happy as larry with my little daughter...
I think I've digressed a bit from the original subject though, apologies! :D;)
Obviously there are exceptions to everything & I am aware that some of the people who have said their horse is better behaved if being led own geldings! I was just thinking 'in general'...
ETA - I know a few people with mares & they seem to have to 'tread on eggshells' around them in comparison to me with my gelding (& the other 3 geldings that are currently in our family!)
 
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ribbons said:
I think it's completely down to horse/ rider combination. To say stay on always is a bit of a sweeping statement. The experience of Enfys above proves that sometimes self preservation dictates that you bail out, but that was an extreme situation. What I am concerned about are the amount of riders out hacking amongst traffic on
horses that for whatever reason regularly cause that rider to get off. I believe that these horses for the majority of the time simply lose confidence in the ability of their rider to take care of them. They pick up so quickly on our confidence and a horse that believes we are not in control will start to make it's own decisions, and that will always be bad news.
At the risk of offending and upsetting I will go as far as to say if a rider is not confident about riding a horse out and staying in control of that horse in all but the most extreme conditions then either rider, horse or both is not ready to be hacking out.
As many experienced riders above have said, sometimes the unexpected presents itself and you have no choice, but generally to take a horse out with the full knowledge that you are not able/willing to ride it on through day to day situations is not the best idea. The situation will only get worse, and it's not usually the
horse being clever and realising it can win, more the horse realising you can't be relied on to be in charge and he/ she must take responsibility for their own safety, which for a horse means avoid all things that worry it and, in their mind threaten that safety. When they are making their own decisions in a tricky situation they ate totally selfish, they come first, you don't matter.
I really don't mean to sound harsh but the mix of unreliable horse and rider relationship should not be out mixing with the lethal machinery of today's traffic, it's not fair to anyone. Stay in a safe place until you are confident enough to push through the issues and if that can't happen, I think it's time to wonder if maybe it's a case of being over horsed or if not, accept that hacking out is not possible at this stage and maybe never.
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ribbons said:
I think it's completely down to horse/ rider combination. To say stay on always is a bit of a sweeping statement. The experience of Enfys above proves that sometimes self preservation dictates that you bail out, but that was an extreme situation. What I am concerned about are the amount of riders out hacking amongst traffic on
horses that for whatever reason regularly cause that rider to get off. I believe that these horses for the majority of the time simply lose confidence in the ability of their rider to take care of them. They pick up so quickly on our confidence and a horse that believes we are not in control will start to make it's own decisions, and that will always be bad news.
At the risk of offending and upsetting I will go as far as to say if a rider is not confident about riding a horse out and staying in control of that horse in all but the most extreme conditions then either rider, horse or both is not ready to be hacking out.
As many experienced riders above have said, sometimes the unexpected presents itself and you have no choice, but generally to take a horse out with the full knowledge that you are not able/willing to ride it on through day to day situations is not the best idea. The situation will only get worse, and it's not usually the
horse being clever and realising it can win, more the horse realising you can't be relied on to be in charge and he/ she must take responsibility for their own safety, which for a horse means avoid all things that worry it and, in their mind threaten that safety. When they are making their own decisions in a tricky situation they ate totally selfish, they come first, you don't matter.
I really don't mean to sound harsh but the mix of unreliable horse and rider relationship should not be out mixing with the lethal machinery of today's traffic, it's not fair to anyone. Stay in a safe place until you are confident enough to push through the issues and if that can't happen, I think it's time to wonder if maybe it's a case of being over horsed or if not, accept that hacking out is not possible at this stage and maybe never.
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How do you expect someone to gain confidence then if they don't expose themselves to roads?

I really don't see the issue in dismouting if your Horse is ok with that.
 
on board knowing what my beast is like to handle on the ground compared to on top means that i stay firmly in the saddle... i also dont want to be caught in the cross fire of his legs which fly about everywhere when hes buggering about or excited... also dont think i will get back on very easily as hes 17.2hh but no always stay on :)andif the gender thing applies then i dont know what my gelding falls under as if you tell him to do anything it usually ends in an argument... ask him hes fine but hes the most opinionated horse known to man :o
 
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horserider said:
There isn't a right or wrong way really. Generally its easier to influence the horse mounted, but if its a choice between keeping yourself safe or loosing control on board, I'd go with the first option.
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Agree with this.
There has been a handful of times I have dismounted and most have invovled situations with bolting and/or busy roads.
It's not worth risking your personal safety over IMO
 
I really don't agree with this idea that horses are being clever and winning when in fact they are just scared or worried about something. Just do whatever works for that individual horse to help them through and they'll get better. For a hacking horse, it's about miles on the clock and gradual exposure to new experiences. You can't avoid outfacing them sometimes, but you just need to have your safe strategy to deal with it. I agree that the rider needs to be confident about being able to deal with the horse, but really don't think that means that the rider has to stay mounted to meet that criteria.
 
ribbons said:
I really don't mean to sound harsh but the mix of unreliable horse and rider relationship should not be out mixing with the lethal machinery of today's traffic, it's not fair to anyone. Stay in a safe place until you are confident enough to push through the issues and if that can't happen, I think it's time to wonder if maybe it's a case of being over horsed or if not, accept that hacking out is not possible at this stage and maybe never.
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You may not mean to sound harsh but you do!

I'm in agreement with you so far as to say I feel more confident on board than on the ground when a situation occurs out hacking but if someone only ever started hacking once they were totally confident then no-one would ever hack out! You have to deal with the situations that hacking throws at you (totally different to any schooling situation) to gain confidence and though it doesn't work for me with my current horse if it means someone is safer to the general public and/or more confident out of the saddle for a short while then I can't really see the problem...

If someone is constantly hopping off any time the horse becomes a bit more on it's toes or when they imagine something terrible is going to happen THEN that's probably something that needs addressing in so much that it's obviously a lack of confidence and maybe a helper on the ground is a good idea...
 
If I thought I couldn't ride it (i.e. had to get off), I wouldn't go out on the roads. Much easier / safer to stay on top.
 
Cortez said:
If I thought I couldn't ride it (i.e. had to get off), I wouldn't go out on the roads. Much easier / safer to stay on top.
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But you can feel totally confident beforehand and then something unexpected can happen...

...I think it's horses for courses (pardon the pun!) :)

Show me a rider who NEVER gets nervous & I'll show you a liar!
 
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Sarah1 said:
But you can feel totally confident beforehand and then something unexpected can happen...

...I think it's horses for courses (pardon the pun!) :)

Show me a rider who NEVER gets nervous & I'll show you a liar!
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All riders get nervous; not all get off when something happens. The unexpected is a given with horses, it's how you deal with it that is the question here.
 
Cortez said:
All riders get nervous; not all get off when something happens. The unexpected is a given with horses, it's how you deal with it that is the question here.
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You're right not everyone does get off and I'm with you on staying in the plate - it works for me with my current horse - BUT what I have learned from this post (which I started) is that sometimes it can be totally dependant on the rider/horse/situation combo.

I just think it's a bit harsh to say if you can't handle your horse on the road then you should be confined to the school, that's how people learn. Though I do think an overly nervous or very novice rider sholdn't be hacking alone and should have someone on foot...
 
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Stay on..as my mare, has before, ran off in the forest and we had to chase her for 2 miles. So I am now terrified of leading her in a stange situation as she is very strong and could get away easily. She is well behaved ridden and I feel alot safer ontop. :)
 
Jenna1406 said:
TBH - its up to how you feel but never think that dismounting means the horse has beaten you, never true! :)
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I'd disagree. My last hack started bucking one evening, and I got off (only time I ever have, I did it as there was no one else home, and it was not worth getting hurt over) and just lunged him a bit. Let me tell you, he realised that day he could scare me, and it took a long time to get him to stop playing up. Like almost 2 years of bucking and pigrooting...

I don't regret it as I made the right choice at the time, but trust me, he knew what he'd achieved that night!
 
It depends on the situation. I normally feel that I have more control when I stay mounted.

I had a very nappy mare on loan. She was an ex-riding school so although hacked alot she never went in front/alone. When her owner tried to hack alone she used to dismount at the first sign of the horse wanting to turn for home. I hacked this mare out every day and after a couple of weeks she hacked out without napping. Her napping was not from her being scared, she wanted me to get off or turn for home as she was so used to doing with her owner, didn't help she was a very opinionated mare. Once I pushed her past this we used to hack out for hours and she loved it!!

On the other hand I also had a very green youngster at one time. One day I was schooling him in a large field on the farm. My friend was long-reining her flighty youngster in the next field. Que said youngster galloping up the hill towards me with lunge lines flying behind him! I jumped off mine when I saw it coming and mine started to shake, he trusted me more on the ground at that point and stood cool as a cucumber next to me whilst the other horse galloped around us!
 
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My experience with my boy is that if he is really scared of something then he is more confident if I get off and lead him past. This has happened 3 times while out hacking in the last 3 years.

It isn't about him or me winning. It is about not really needing to have a massive drama about something that is actually very frightening for him. I know he will walk calmly past anything with me on the ground, so if he is genuinely very fearful, I think by getting off and leading him past I am doing the right thing by him. To me it is saying 'I know this is scary, but I will show you that we are ok and you can follow me.'

I am not getting off because I am frightened. He doesn't do anything except not go past and I know that I could have an argument and get him past. But occasionally if something is genuinely frightening him I think it is much easier to help him past on foot. He does so much that I ask of him, I don't think it is too much to help him on the odd occasion when he needs it.
 
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