Sternum/wither/girth pain

[endurance36]

Hello, I just wondered if anyone has had any similar issues to mine and what it may be? My horse has started turning round to nip when gently girthed but only sometimes. He also tries to nip if I gently press the sternum area between his front legs and just behind his shoulder blades higher up, it's worse on one side I think. Very new behaviour , the sweetest boy for the last few years so obviously pain. Fine to actually ride however I won't be riding him any further until I solve what's wrong. He lives a low stress lifestyle, out 24/7, plenty of hay, on acid ease as a preventive I thought? So I'm not sure if it's ulcers. Would you say it could be that or more likely saddle fit? I'm trying to find a fitter, he's a little over due for one their very hard to find in my area of north Wales. Thank you

 

[Pinkvboots]

Do you have a regular physio check him over?

 

[endurance36]

Do you have a regular physio check him over?

Thanks, not regularly but he has one from time to time. Would you say more regularly would be the most likely answer? Thanks

 

[Pinkvboots]

Thanks, not regularly but he has one from time to time. Would you say more regularly would be the most likely answer? Thanks

It could be a muscle strain or soreness or it could be ulcers or a variety of things but sometimes if you have regular physio they pick up on changes.

It's also worth doing a saddle check just incase it's not right and if all that fails it's worth contacting your vet.

 

[endurance36]

Thank you, il do physio and saddle fit then vet if that fails

 

[sbloom]

It's thought that even one episode of stress could trigger ulcers so it's very hard to rule them out. And try to avoid a saddle fit "box ticking" exercise, it's useful to try a different saddle, bareback pad etc to see if the horse is better, not just check the aspects of fit of the existing saddle.

 

[endurance36]

It's thought that even one episode of stress could trigger ulcers so it's very hard to rule them out. And try to avoid a saddle fit "box ticking" exercise, it's useful to try a different saddle, bareback pad etc to see if the horse is better, not just check the aspects of fit of the existing saddle.

Thank you. That makes sense, must look at it from all angles. He was wary when approached with a bareback pad however gradually less worried as I slowly put it on and off a few times/slowly tightened the girth. Would you say if he's relaxed to actually ride which he is, that it's more saddle fit than back problems? Yes I'm 50/50 now about it being ulcers especially as you say, even one event can trigger them. He had two stressful travelling times in the summer so that could be it too

 

[sbloom]

Hard to say, they're such great maskers of dysfunction and of course habituation can sometimes just be helping them mask, makes things difficult. Yes it probably makes it less likely to be a back issue, but probably only marginally so, so often the change in the way the horse loves under saddle shifts very slowly and we don't even see or feel the dysfunction anyway.

Have you assessed his posture? It provides another good proportion of a 360 degree assessment. There's good stuff in the webinars etc on equitopiacenter.com, join cheaply for a month or two.

 

[endurance36]

Hard to say, they're such great maskers of dysfunction and of course habituation can sometimes just be helping them mask, makes things difficult. Yes it probably makes it less likely to be a back issue, but probably only marginally so, so often the change in the way the horse loves under saddle shifts very slowly and we don't even see or feel the dysfunction anyway.

Have you assessed his posture? It provides another good proportion of a 360 degree assessment. There's good stuff in the webinars etc on equitopiacenter.com, join cheaply for a month or two.

I see, I do hope he's not just masking any pain being ridden, he's not masking anything when he sees the treed saddle thats for sure. I wasn't going to do so atall but he seems fine to be actually ridden, and then again it could be habituation or still, masking it even if he isn't when it comes to the saddle!. If only they could talk. The only thing I'm aware of regarding his posture is his trimmer noted how "camped under he was previously with shoes" to how he is now. Thank you I will look up that site now. I have booked a good physio and I'm trying to get hold of a fitter and will go from there I think

 

[spacefaer]

Thinking slightly outside the box, I had a horse who became very sore around his girth area and sternum, to the eventual point of muscle atrophy. He had longstanding issues with sore front feet and his sternum etc muscles had become sore from trying to hold himself off his feet.

 

[endurance36]

Thinking slightly outside the box, I had a horse who became very sore around his girth area and sternum, to the eventual point of muscle atrophy. He had longstanding issues with sore front feet and his sternum etc muscles had become sore from trying to hold himself off his feet.

Thank you that's definitely a possibility too. It's awful when there's so much it could be

 

[sbloom]

Thank you that's definitely a possibility too. It's awful when there's so much it could be

It's why I emphasise being able to analyse the horse in front of you - posture and movement, and that's not at all like a lameness workup. Horses compensate so most things go unaddressed for some time, and you'll get a pattern of issues in various places. So often we need a team of professionals pulling gently at various threads, and trying to improve all aspects of the horse's lot - groundwork, feet, diet, turnout and other management, saddle etc.

 

[endurance36]

It's why I emphasise being able to analyse the horse in front of you - posture and movement, and that's not at all like a lameness workup. Horses compensate so most things go unaddressed for some time, and you'll get a pattern of issues in various places. So often we need a team of professionals pulling gently at various threads, and trying to improve all aspects of the horse's lot - groundwork, feet, diet, turnout and other management, saddle etc.

Absolutely. I owe it to him to learn all of this and recognize posture good or bad. Yes, and all round look at everything not just one thing would be best I agree. Could it be kissing spines or something very serious do you think? If it's not saddle or ulcers I wouldn't know where to start but I'm worried it could be legs now too or feet . So worried about him. Fitter coming next Tuesday to check saddle and I'm wondering wether to scope or just treat as if he has ulcers as I've heard scoping is stressful enough to cause them if they don't already have them? It's absolutely unusual and new behaviour for him to be biting even kicking abit, when his girth is done up. I do it SO gently too, always have I've also booked the physio he's had a while ago but she's quite far from me so a bit of a wait. Thanks again

 

[sbloom]

Absolutely. I owe it to him to learn all of this and recognize posture good or bad. Yes, and all round look at everything not just one thing would be best I agree. Could it be kissing spines or something very serious do you think? If it's not saddle or ulcers I wouldn't know where to start but I'm worried it could be legs now too or feet . So worried about him. Fitter coming next Tuesday to check saddle and I'm wondering wether to scope or just treat as if he has ulcers as I've heard scoping is stressful enough to cause them if they don't already have them? It's absolutely unusual and new behaviour for him to be biting even kicking abit, when his girth is done up. I do it SO gently too, always have I've also booked the physio he's had a while ago but she's quite far from me so a bit of a wait. Thanks again

I have said on here before I would think VERY hard before scoping but got pilloried for it. I haven't changed my mind, it's invasive and traumatic to the whole system, in particular is highly likely to make the ulcers worse short term (and as we know they don't tend to improve on their own!).

The physio hopefully will be able to identify the areas of concern but remember if you need (and of course in most cases we absolutely DO need) a firm diagnosis then it's a vet, as they're the only ones that can officially diagnose anything. With such a wait it's obviously a bit more challenging, perhaps it's worth a vet visit?

If you're still stuck, then I'm a bit fluffy (I think an awful lot of stuff out there just isn't proven by science yet) so I'd be looking for a slightly more alternative 360 degree assessment. I'd work through resources like those on Equitopia so you can be your horse's best advocate, and you'll get some ideas of SLIGHTLY more alternative approaches on there too. When vets and regular (good, qualified) bodyworkers can't find the issue then we need to get creative, though often the more alternative practitioner can give feedback that helps the vets hone in better. Ask the saddle fitter his/her opinion but do a bit of reading in advance so you can judge the comments/opinions.

I've had a few over the years but the most clear cut recently was a horse that had struggled for months to get a diagnosis of ulcers, they were treated, the horse was still misbehaving so, because they couldn't "find" anything the vets told her to send it to a trainer as was obviously behavioural. Luckily I came to visit in the meantime and saw a horse in a lot of compensation for a physical issue, and we slightly narrowed down what might be going on, or at least where. When the owner stamped her foot and went back to the vets they found, iirc, significant SI dysfunction and a tendon issue.