sticky thread about towing????

sticky towing thread

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perfect11s

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Is it time we had a sticky thread or a forum for the facts about towing ? seems there is much confusion of the laws and it's not helpfull to people who are new to towing..
licences , weights etc
 
I think that's a really good idea. I've seen so many people ask the same questions about weights and licences that it surely would help people out :)

We could even recommend towing instructors etc if it gets going.
 
I agree it'd be very useful. The more people know about towing and safety the better, I see so many people try to do it on a budget and without the right know how to do so.
 
What about a sticky with the disclaimer 'even the government don't seem to entirely understand these laws so these may be open to interpretation' or something of that ilk! :p :D
 
The ONLY problem is people not understanding the laws and believing myths

The laws on towing are VERY simple and all anyone has to do is to find a law that says they MUST or MUST NOT do something if they are in dispute over an aspect of it

Often I get another saying that they heard this or that and differing views from different people in different authorities but the answer is always the same - what does the law say?

Some people interperet what they are a reading in law differently but there are no grey areas - it either can be done or it cannot

A sticky would be an excellent idea on the different towing laws for B and B+E drivers

I would not lock it though because it will be interesting to dispel the many myths that are about
 
NeverSayNever said:
no, because people will then rely on what's written as being gospel when even the powers that be can't agree on it.
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Of course the powers that be as you call them can, IT IS writen in black and white in law ...its just the mong' s on H&H that think they should quote some idiot they spoke to at a show or down the pub mis read the rules or found some obsure web site and post absulute tosh...
I m sure someone at H&H can find someone from the depatment for transport to supply a fact sheet and the laws for towing light trailers....
 
perfect11s said:
Of course the powers that be as you call them can, IT IS writen in black and white in law ...its just the mong' s on H&H that think they should quote some idiot they spoke to at a show or down the pub mis read the rules or found some obsure web site and post absulute tosh...
I m sure someone at H&H can find someone from the depatment for transport to supply a fact sheet and the laws for towing light trailers....
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I'm quite happy to contact the relevant person and get it down in black and white.

Are there any specific questions that we want to put to them because other wise they're going to spout the confusing rubbish (and I don't dispute it is the truth but it IS confusing) that is on direct.gov and that isn't going to clarify anything for anyone!
 
perfect11s said:
Of course the powers that be as you call them can, IT IS writen in black and white in law ...its just the mong' s on H&H that think they should quote some idiot they spoke to at a show or down the pub mis read the rules or found some obsure web site and post absulute tosh...
I m sure someone at H&H can find someone from the depatment for transport to supply a fact sheet and the laws for towing light trailers....
Click to expand...
The problem will still be that someone will say that the MAM of the trailer cannot be more than the towing capacity and there is no written anything to say that is wrong and when you/we try to explain that it is not the case because there is no written law to say so they don't believe it because it is not in writing

They don't think in 'negatives' (nothing written to prevent it) only in 'positives' (something written that allows it) so they keep saying "it does not say that is ok to do"
 
perfect11s said:
I m sure someone at H&H can find someone from the depatment for transport to supply a fact sheet and the laws for towing light trailers....
Click to expand...

well Id be fascinated to see it as so far I believe nothing like this exists, not from an official body anyway ;) I was told by my examiner when I sat my b+e recently that some such thing is being looked into to come out later in the year however.
 
NeverSayNever said:
well Id be fascinated to see it as so far I believe nothing like this exists, not from an official body anyway ;) I was told by my examiner when I sat my b+e recently that some such thing is being looked into to come out later in the year however.
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Unless they give many examples of what is or is not legal and why then it will be useless.
 
NeverSayNever said:
no, because people will then rely on what's written as being gospel when even the powers that be can't agree on it.
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I agree with this!!! Having spoken to DVLA Vosa and my trailer manufacturer to then come on forums, read magazines then read the websites and NONE of it marries up.

I have my B+E licence but I still adhere to the previous apparently 'non B+E/Pre-97' rules
 
NiknKia said:
I have my B+E licence but I still adhere to the previous apparently 'non B+E/Pre-97' rules
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B+E rules have always been the same for anyone who has a B+E licence no matter how they got it

The only recentish rule change was a mamimum trailer MAM of 3.5 tonnes when towing with a B+E
 
This is response from VOSA when questioned about towing trailer with greater mam than car capacity. (stolen from trotonline)

I refer to your mail of 20 June to VOSA Enquiries on the above subject which has been passed to me to answer. There are two aspects to your question, the technical capability of the car to tow the weight, and driving licence limitations. There is no technical problem with the gross vehicle weight of the trailer exceeding a car's towing capability providing its actual weight does not exceed the towing capability, or if the car also has a stated train weight on its manufacturers plate and the weight of the car, trailer and load does not exceed that train weight . It is entirely normal for vehicles totow trailers which have a GVW exceeding the towing or GTW capability. Most HGV artic combinations are like this. For driving licence purposes, however, if drivers only have a category B driving licence entitlement then if the trailer exceeds 750 kg GVW then the trailer GVW must not exceed the unladen weight of the car and the totalof the trailer and car GVWs must not exceed 3500 kg. The combination of a trailer with a GVW of 2800 kg (or 2600 kg for that matter) could not therefore be driven on a category B licence. It can however be driven on a category BE ( or B+E on some licences) which anybody who passed their driving test before 1 January 1997 will have. This category does not have the trailer weight or relative combination size limitations. If they haven't got the BE / B+E licence (people need to look at the licence photocard reverse for entitlements) then they will need to take an extra trailer test to get the BE entitlement. According to the above and referring to your mail it is Group B that arecorrect. Group A are getting confused about issues related to category Bdriving licence restrictions which are irrelevant in the forum context ofpre-1997 qualified drivers. I hope this answers your question adequately. Steve Whitehart Heavy Vehicle Process Manager Testing and Support Services Customer Service CentreVOSA Swansea
 
JunoXV said:
This is response from VOSA when questioned about towing trailer with greater mam than car capacity. (stolen from trotonline)

I refer to your mail of 20 June to VOSA Enquiries on the above subject which has been passed to me to answer. There are two aspects to your question, the technical capability of the car to tow the weight, and driving licence limitations. There is no technical problem with the gross vehicle weight of the trailer exceeding a car's towing capability providing its actual weight does not exceed the towing capability, or if the car also has a stated train weight on its manufacturers plate and the weight of the car, trailer and load does not exceed that train weight . It is entirely normal for vehicles totow trailers which have a GVW exceeding the towing or GTW capability. Most HGV artic combinations are like this. For driving licence purposes, however, if drivers only have a category B driving licence entitlement then if the trailer exceeds 750 kg GVW then the trailer GVW must not exceed the unladen weight of the car and the totalof the trailer and car GVWs must not exceed 3500 kg. The combination of a trailer with a GVW of 2800 kg (or 2600 kg for that matter) could not therefore be driven on a category B licence. It can however be driven on a category BE ( or B+E on some licences) which anybody who passed their driving test before 1 January 1997 will have. This category does not have the trailer weight or relative combination size limitations. If they haven't got the BE / B+E licence (people need to look at the licence photocard reverse for entitlements) then they will need to take an extra trailer test to get the BE entitlement. According to the above and referring to your mail it is Group B that arecorrect. Group A are getting confused about issues related to category Bdriving licence restrictions which are irrelevant in the forum context ofpre-1997 qualified drivers. I hope this answers your question adequately. Steve Whitehart Heavy Vehicle Process Manager Testing and Support Services Customer Service CentreVOSA Swansea
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Yep there you go folks correct, thank you Juno XV....
 
Id still want to see something that's been officially published. sorry, but I asked the examiner at a vosa test centre and got different answers.
 
NeverSayNever said:
Id still want to see something that's been officially published. sorry, but I asked the examiner at a vosa test centre and got different answers.
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that post by juno was a reply from one of the head people by the look of it!!!! I think the best bet is go for you and get a book on road trafic law and go into it, google Sweet and maxwell for books on law or you could phone the dept for transport in london they are the goverment dept that deals with roads and laws relating to vehicles when I rang them a few years ago about gooseneck trailers they were very helpfull I spoke to a fella for about an hour and he sent me quite a lot of info about brakes and other things and answered some unsual questions for me , VOSA and the police are inforcement agencys some staff will have more knowlage of the law than others!!! so someone who does the driving tests may not be up to speed on all aspects of road trafic law...
 
It is a confusing subject .....

and you shouldn't call people "mongs" perfect11s as it's derogatory and offensive.
 
tallyho! said:
It is a confusing subject .....

and you shouldn't call people "mongs" perfect11s as it's derogatory and offensive.
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Oh sorry !!!! I forgot we live in this fluffy PC age of no one should be critised or held acountable no mater how feckless or stupid they are ... no wonder youth uninployment is so high and the country is in a mess!!!!!
 
perfect11s said:
Oh sorry !!!! I forgot we live in this fluffy PC age of no one should be critised or held acountable no mater how feckless or stupid they are ... no wonder youth uninployment is so high and the country is in a mess!!!!!
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This shouldn't excuse you from using offensive terminology.

It's a derogatory term used by people circa 1985 to describe people who have a certain disability and is not considered acceptable in this day and age.

I suggest you delve deep into your thesaurus and choose another word to describe your feelings before you offend some good people on here.
 
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On the subject of towing tests.... it's just another tax... who is actually pulling up on it?

I saw one in Wales about three years ago at the Cardiff VOSA point.... none since have been done.

£115 for a act B+E... then add on an average of £600 for lessons.... what a rip off. Its basically a driving test with a trailer attached.

All the dangers still apply and are not tested upon i.e. SAFE towing. Apart from speed limits and a short reverse... it's just another tax.
 
tallyho! said:
This shouldn't excuse you from using offensive terminology.

It's a derogatory term used by people circa 1985 to describe people who have a certain disability and is not considered acceptable in this day and age.

I suggest you delve deep into your thesaurus and choose another word to describe your feelings before you offend some good people on here.
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IS mupet ok :D
 
tallyho! said:
On the subject of towing tests.... it's just another tax... who is actually pulling up on it?

I saw one in Wales about three years ago at the Cardiff VOSA point.... none since have been done.

£115 for a act B+E... then add on an average of £600 for lessons.... what a rip off. Its basically a driving test with a trailer attached.

All the dangers still apply and are not tested upon i.e. SAFE towing. Apart from speed limits and a short reverse... it's just another tax.
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Maybe alot of these tests and certs and things like equine pasports waste of time things the gubermint comes up with but what would else could you find for all the
people with potty degrees to do ????? they wouldent lower themselves to do anything usefull....
 
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Hallelujah :D:D:D
Thanks for posting that. It may be worth printing that out and keeping it in your cars for when the nice people ;) pull you and say your trailer has a greater MAM than your car.

And Perfect11, great idea to have it as a sticky. Theres so much confusion and so endless posts on here that always end up with the same debate going on.
 
I'm sick of towing, I want a mobile gin palace *kicks the stupid economy* I was led to believe there would be mobile gin palaces in the future!
 
When vosa themselves give conflicting advice re the towing laws depending on who you are asking I do not think it is reasonable for anyone to be called even a muppet for having a different viewpoint to yours!
Particularly as my understanding of the law that is written states only about which licence you hold and if that is pre 97 then what you are actually towing , with no mention of what you are towing it with at all!
 
lannerch said:
When vosa themselves give conflicting advice re the towing laws depending on who you are asking I do not think it is reasonable for anyone to be called even a muppet for having a different viewpoint to yours!
Particularly as my understanding of the law that is written states only about which licence you hold and if that is pre 97 then what you are actually towing , with no mention of what you are towing it with at all!
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DO you know anyone or can point to anyone who
has been prosicuted for any of the mythical ofences !!!!!!
 
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