sticky thread about towing????

[Pedantic]

Lets confuse everyone, it's a lot more interesting

 

[tallyho!]

No no no no.... pedantic, lets keep giving everyone hard facts from various different trustworthy sources and insisting we are right... then, we print it off, send it to VOSA, DVLA, IW & Bateson and watch a fight

Then we organise a mass "tow-off" somewhere near a VOSA weighbridge and whoever is right according whoever happens to be there gets a red rosette. Then we can grade the rest and offer rosettes up to sixth place.

 

[Pedantic]

No no no no.... pedantic, lets keep giving everyone hard facts from various different trustworthy sources and insisting we are right... then, we print it off, send it to VOSA, DVLA, IW & Bateson and watch a fight

Then we organise a mass "tow-off" somewhere near a VOSA weighbridge and whoever is right according whoever happens to be there gets a red rosette. Then we can grade the rest and offer rosettes up to sixth place.

Presses like button

 

[NeverSayNever]

i still hold my opinion, I would not rely on something posted on a forum or in a magazine for that matter when it comes to matters of law. As I said initially I believe something is being published later in the year and until such times as a link could be provided to an officially published source I don't think it's a good idea.

 

[perfect11s]

i still hold my opinion, I would not rely on something posted on a forum or in a magazine for that matter when it comes to matters of law. As I said initially I believe something is being published later in the year and until such times as a link could be provided to an officially published source I don't think it's a good idea.

I aggree dont belive a word of any of the posts about anything on horse and hound it's all lies and rubbish writen by idiots they are all lies to get you in trouble, no one posts anything to be helpfull or pass on what they have learnt esp about horse care , training or transport ... keep taking the tablets you will be fine!!!!

 

[NeverSayNever]

I aggree dont belive a word of any of the posts about anything on horse and hound it's all lies and rubbish writen by idiots they are all lies to get you in trouble, no one posts anything to be helpfull or pass on what they have learnt esp about horse care , training or transport ... keep taking the tablets you will be fine!!!!

pardon ?

actually, there is a wealth of helpful advice here, however you are talking about stating law.

I disagreed with you, politely, there is no need to be so rude.

 

[ROG]

Being rude etc to those that are not aware or misread the rules in not the way forward.

The best way is to present an argument that holds water

I like to ask the question - please show me the law that prevents doing what you state cannot be done

To the member who got a different answer from VOSA - did you present a senario which they said was illegal and then follow that with - what law does it break?

Never accept a negative answer if the person giving it cannot state which law is broken

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Being rude etc to those that are not aware or misread the rules in not the way forward.

The best way is to present an argument that holds water

Well said, insulting people and calling them mongs or muppets isnt funny nor a good way to make people listen to you.

As far as I am concerned I will carry on with what i am doing and thats towing a 500kg horse in a 905kgs (max weight 2000kgs) trailer with my 2250kg MAM Xtrail and my B+E licence

Not been done yet and cant find anything in the old nor new rules to say that I cannot tow this combination

 

[tallyho!]

Anyone ever asked a traffic cop? Just wondered, not trying to be clever or anything.

I just wonder what they could possibly pull you up on when towing a reasonable rig e.g. 4x4 + IF510... for example... and you have appropriate licence.

Because I think most know without the B+E you can only be 3.5tonnes heavy without trailer being heavier than the motor.

 

[tallyho!]

Well said, insulting people and calling them mongs or muppets isnt funny nor a good way to make people listen to you.

As far as I am concerned I will carry on with what i am doing and thats towing a 500kg horse in a 905kgs (max weight 2000kgs) trailer with my 2250kg MAM Xtrail and my B+E licence

Not been done yet and cant find anything in the old nor new rules to say that I cannot tow this combination

Red rosette

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Red rosette

yay!!! Thankee

 

[perfect11s]

Being rude etc to those that are not aware or misread the rules in not the way forward.

The best way is to present an argument that holds water

I like to ask the question - please show me the law that prevents doing what you state cannot be done

To the member who got a different answer from VOSA - did you present a senario which they said was illegal and then follow that with - what law does it break?

Never accept a negative answer if the person giving it cannot state which law is broken

your 100% right... but I've come to the conclusion that some posters see themselves involved in a game and enjoy having a debate nothing to do with the facts which have been pointed out by many people with copys of Vosa replies ,links to gov web sites . and towing web pages about towing and licence laws and rules on countless threads, they are here to be the web village idiots not to learn or go away and google trailer law and educate themselves , or maybe they are kids they certainly have a childish way about about a serious subject ....

 

[ROG]

As far as I am concerned I will carry on with what i am doing and thats towing a 500kg horse in a 905kgs (max weight 2000kgs) trailer with my 2250kg MAM Xtrail and my B+E licence

Not been done yet and cant find anything in the old nor new rules to say that I cannot tow this combination

If 1405 is within the towing capacity for your Xtrail then its fine on a BE

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

your 100% right... but I've come to the conclusion that some posters see themselves involved in a game and enjoy having a debate nothing to do with the facts which have been pointed out by many people with copys of Vosa replies ,links to gov web sites . and towing web pages about towing and licence laws and rules on countless threads, they are here to be the web village idiots not to learn or go away and google trailer law and educate themselves , or maybe they are kids they certainly have a childish way about about a serious subject ....

Maybe some people are repsonding to you childish replies no?? I mean if your going to insult people and make stupid comments about their posts then people are not going to take you seriously and therefore disregard you.

Its one thing I have learned on forums the years I have been on them.

Well the max towing weight of my Xtrail in the books says 2250kgs so i would assume that 1450kgs is within its capabilites

 

[jaquelin]

Sticky a good idea.
But it seems to me that this thread is focusing on the legalities - will I get arrested if I do this - over what is safe. From the many, many posts I have seen on HHF about towing, my biggest concern is the posters who blithely suggested towing with a vehicle which does not have sufficient capacity to do so. I occasionally see this on the roads. So besides the legal issue, the real issue is "if I do this, will I have an accident? " not "if I do this will I get arrested?"
I saw a towing accident caused by precisely that - car towing too many horses ( 4 polo ponies in a 3 horse trailer) and it will stay with me for life. 1 horse died, one seriously injured.

 

[tallyho!]

Jaquelin, you may have a point...

It IS a minefield of misinformation out there. Instead of a "facts" thread, why don't we have the resident or a panel of leading lights on the issue provide a "safe towing clinic"? Or even invite someone from DVLA.

Members who are worried about their rig could then post the combination they have and can have an answer as to whether it is safe and legal to do so....

e.g. Is my 4.0l Range Rover Vogue capable of towing my pink IF511 with two 500kg hunters? p.s. I don't have a BE Licence but Mum n Dad are loaded....

They could then have an instant answer and steps to take to increase safety and make it a legal option.

 

[lannerch]

Is my mini pink off course capable if towing my equitrailer with 2 horses! If I have a downhill start I can get moving .
I have a pre 97 licence so I am allowed to tow any combination up to 7.5t so seems to be legal so must be safe!

Seriously I agree with the above poster the law is not as black and White as perfect posters seem to claim the law as all it clearly states is licence required and what you are towing and not what you are towing with. But the most important thing is safety and if you are safe I am willing to bet you won't get arrested!

 

[PaddyMonty]

e.g. Is my 4.0l Range Rover Vogue capable of towing my pink IF511 with two 500kg hunters? p.s. I don't have a BE Licence but Mum n Dad are loaded....

Yes it is but you cant drive it and anyway you should be arrested and sent down for a very long time just for having a PINK trailer.

 

[perfect11s]

Sticky a good idea.
But it seems to me that this thread is focusing on the legalities - will I get arrested if I do this - over what is safe. From the many, many posts I have seen on HHF about towing, my biggest concern is the posters who blithely suggested towing with a vehicle which does not have sufficient capacity to do so. I occasionally see this on the roads. So besides the legal issue, the real issue is "if I do this, will I have an accident? " not "if I do this will I get arrested?"
I saw a towing accident caused by precisely that - car towing too many horses ( 4 polo ponies in a 3 horse trailer) and it will stay with me for life. 1 horse died, one seriously injured.

Yes you see people doing stupid things on the road most days if you drive alot for work like I do , people in the 3rd lane on the motorway with trailers , small cars towing horse trailers with two in , driving too close , lane hogging , driving to slowly or too fast for conditions , however to their credit I dont think anyone has surgested its ok to take risks with overloading on this forum ,never!!! mis reading the law and quoting the man down the pub, but it's been more of what you cant do falsehoods than oh you will be fine my mate does that and he has never had a problem..... , the law is fair and quite simple the main thing to remember is have I got a licence to tow B+E ??? then how much does my trailer and its load weigh and does my vehicle have suficient towing capcity to handle said load .. simple ...

 

[Birker2020]

Would be brilliant and help people like my Dad and I who, when we asked a policeman at our local police station about towing weights as we were concerned we were over or nearly over the limit, he suggested putting a concrete slab in the boot to even the weight out!!! Yes very helpful......NOT

 

[tallyho!]

Yes it is but you cant drive it and anyway you should be arrested and sent down for a very long time just for having a PINK trailer.

I've got matching tack... that makes it ok surely?

 

[ROG]

Is my mini pink off course capable if towing my equitrailer with 2 horses! If I have a downhill start I can get moving .
I have a pre 97 licence so I am allowed to tow any combination up to 7.5t so seems to be legal so must be safe!

Seriously I agree with the above poster the law is not as black and White as perfect posters seem to claim the law as all it clearly states is licence required and what you are towing and not what you are towing with. But the most important thing is safety and if you are safe I am willing to bet you won't get arrested!

The laws on this are crystal clear but when individual interpretations are applied then they become fuzzy

Being LEGAL and being SAFE are totally different issues

The authorities are very likely to pull in a driver towing a trailer who looks under 35 as they are more likely to only have a B licence and the only way to accertain that is to stop them and do the checks

 

[ROG]

e.g. Is my 4.0l Range Rover Vogue capable of towing my pink IF511 with two 500kg hunters? p.s. I don't have a BE Licence but Mum n Dad are loaded....

They could then have an instant answer and steps to take to increase safety and make it a legal option.

It would be illegal to tow it on a B licence - a B+E is required

Safety for other road users would also need taking into consideration as a pink trailer could be deemed as being 'distractive' - LOL

 

[tallyho!]

ROG, are you from the DVLA or other authority? (- serious question btw)

Would you be willing to do a "clinic"?

 

[ROG]

ROG, are you from the DVLA or other authority? (- serious question btw)

Would you be willing to do a "clinic"?

I am not a member of any official organisation

I do have 'trustable' contacts in the police and VOSA.
In regards to DVLA, I always use e-mail as that gets the definitive answer because they do not wish to be quoted as being wrong

Using all three organisations it has been easy to get definitive answers in which all three agree

I also have good contacts in the DSA so that helps with other issues

I find it interesting to collate and then double/triple check on driving issues before posting a definitive - guessing or assuming is not recommended but there are times when I will do so but make it clear that it is in my opinion and not definitive

I am also pretty good on the basic driver regulations which govern those under the EU driver regs but the more technical bits I leave to the experts

 

[ROG]

An example of a confusing issue which I am currently checking on -
A driver in NI passed car test in a manual but then passed BE test in an auto

UK DVLA rules state that the driver cannot drive BE manual but the driver claims that the NI rules of DVLNI do allow it

The driver may wish to drive a BE manual set up in the UK so are they covered to do that?

So far the e-mail to DVLNI has been passed on to their regulatory team and I await an answer .....

 

[ROG]

If a member on here was to provide me with the relevant info then I can say whether the set up is legal or not on either a B or BE licence and WHY

I would need -
1 - What licence they hold - B or BE
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer

 

[tallyho!]

Excellent! Well we should probably create a new "Clinic" thread: but I'll start here first...

1. B+E Licence
2. 2410kg (this is kerbweight/unladen right?)
3. 3450kg (not too sure about this - what does it mean? Max load of vehicle?)
4. 2500kg (Capacity)
5. 1905kg (HB505)
6. 905kg

Thanks ROG.

 

[BonneMaman]

Oh god, I soooo wanted to click the "lets fight over it" one but you are absolutely right - every time someone comes on here and asks a question about the weight ratio of towing cars vs trailers people start having a go! We will need to still put a disclaimer on it - somethis like this is for reference only and readers should go to ... for more info. Just in case the law changes!

 

[ROG]

1. B+E Licence
2. 2410kg (this is kerbweight/unladen right?)
3. 3450kg (not too sure about this - what does it mean? Max load of vehicle?)
4. 2500kg (Capacity)
5. 1905kg (HB505)
6. 905kg

LEGAL

1 - max vehicle GVW of 3500 (you got 3450) and max trailer MAM of 3500 (you got 1905)
2 - correct - usually listed in handbook
3 - correct - number 2 (2410) with full load of 1040 (2410+1040=3450)
4 - max weight of empty trailer plus the load on it
5 minus 6 1905-905=1000 so 1000 is the max load that can be loaded onto the trailer

5 is much lower than 4 so a fully laden trailler weighing 1905 is well within the max towing capacity of 2500

Your max combination weight would be 5355 with that set up (3450+1905=5355) but you could go up to 5950 if you got a trailer with a MAM of at least 2500 (up to 3500)

ADD - the problem in getting a trailer with a greater MAM could be that it is heavier when empty so getting a 3500 MAM trailer which weighed 1500 empty still only allows you a max payload of 1000 because of the 2500 towing capacity limit for your vehicle

If you are happy with the trailer load capacity of 1000 then great!