Stifle surgery cost

[rachk89]

So my horse is getting both of his stifles operated on soon. One is worse than the other.

As a rough ball park, what have other people been charged for this? I know it will depend on the vet, how long the horse stays at the vets, how bad the issue is etc.

But I am really worried that I can't afford it if insurance won't pay out. I've already got a bill of around £1200 just for xrays, ultrasounds, lameness work up etc and there's more to come obviously. If insurance pays out, it's a £3000 limit. So I've only got £1800 left now.

I'm screwed aren't I? If insurance doesn't pay especially and I'm not sure if they will. His back, sacroiliac and pelvis are already eliminated because of his kissing spine, what if they decide his back caused this?

I want the surgery for my boy, he's in pain without it (when not drugged up obviously). But I've already put a lot onto my credit card for him and don't have much space left on it unless I ask the bank for more money on it. I do keep up with payments so they probably would, but I'd rather not.

Any suggestions on what it might cost me? I've been told nothing by the vets doing it, it's a different vet as my vets don't have the facilities to do the operation. Thanks, just worried. He needs it though so I'll have to find a way to pay for it.

 

[be positive]

I have no idea other than it will be in excess of the £1800 you have left but the vets will give you a quote before he goes in and if they know it is not covered by insurance they should give a fixed price that, unless something unexpected happens, they will stick to, it may also be worth getting a couple of other practices to quote as they can vary with charges and as you are not using your own vets there is no reason not to shop around.
I hope he can finally be fully sorted out it has been a long journey with him, I think it more likely that his back was caused by the stifles not so likely the other way round so you may well be covered.

 

[ihatework]

You’ll need to ask the Vets for a quote but IMO you would be struggling to get one stifle arthroscopy for £1800 let alone two stifles.

It’s probably not my place to say this, so apologies, but do have a very frank conversation with the vet about the prospect of success. With concurrent issues I would operate with caution personally.

Good luck x

 

[rachk89]

She has said she's not convinced he will be right even after this. He went in for the examination last week and was very lame according to her. He doesn't seem as bad now though, I agreed at the weekend he did look bad but after a few days he did improve. Probably just the danilon though I guess.

I know what you mean be positive, it most likely was his back caused by the stifles, but it's an insurance company, they'll try to get out of paying if they can.

I'll have to phone the insurance company tomorrow and first see if they've got my claim and will pay. And then phone the vets to find out how much this is going to cost me.

I dunno what to do though, I'm happy to keep him as a retired horse as long as he's comfortable, but I don't want him on danilon his whole life. He's only 9.

 

[Gorseyhorsey]

I had one done a couple of years ago, both sides, came in about 2.5k so not so far over your budget - horse hasn't come right though. Good luck

 

[rachk89]

I am worried he won't be right after this. Worried that he'll still be sore. Is your horse still sore gorsey or just not sound? I am fine with retiring him, I'd rather not but will if that's what's best for him and he'll never be sold no matter what. But I don't want him in pain.

 

[sport horse]

What surgery are they proposing to do to the stifles?

If there is no real prospect of improvement you are just throwing good money after bad and maybe, even more importantly, causing the horse more suffering.

No surgery and recuperation is pain free and/or easy and if the outcome does not give a good prognosis, you must question whether you are doing this for your horse or yourself.

 

[Northern]

I am worried he won't be right after this. Worried that he'll still be sore. Is your horse still sore gorsey or just not sound? I am fine with retiring him, I'd rather not but will if that's what's best for him and he'll never be sold no matter what. But I don't want him in pain.

Sorry to hear you are having issues with him I have been in your shoes, and would advise you to have a good think about whether this is the right route for you to go with him. I had my mare undergo an arthroscopy last year to remove a chip from her fetlock. The outcome was not what we wanted, she was still lame after box rest despite being on Previcox daily, bute made no difference and neither did Pentosan and joint supplements.

The first joint injections may or may not have worked (she ripped her knee open a week after them), but she was lame again after recovering from her knee injury. I would do surgery again in a heartbeat, but I knew I was able to afford it and took the chance despite knowing she may not come right. Like you I just wanted her to be comfortable in the paddock, I didn't need her to be ridden again. I advise you have a think about how much you are willing to put into him, and at what point enough is enough. It would be a shame to slip into debt to have him not come right or be comfortable afterwards. Personally if the vet isn't convinced it will work, I would have a long think about whether to go ahead (second/third opinions may help too).

Best of luck, thinking of you

 

[Goldenstar]

I was told around 2k for one stifle but IME they always underestimate the aftercare costs after surgery .
There’s lots of reasons why I did not go for surgery with Fatty , money was not one but I regret it more than I can express .

 

[Gorseyhorsey]

I am worried he won't be right after this. Worried that he'll still be sore. Is your horse still sore gorsey or just not sound? I am fine with retiring him, I'd rather not but will if that's what's best for him and he'll never be sold no matter what. But I don't want him in pain.

She's fine in the field - v athletic! She does vary a bit, but careering around on a steep hill probably stirs things up a bit sometimes. I just haven't managed to get her back into work.

 

[rachk89]

I'm gonna have a chat with my vet today about it and if she says he will not be sore after the surgery, but can't guarantee soundness, he'll get the operation. I'll just sell everything I can to afford it for him. I have a trailer so that's a big chunk of money to get. So if insurance won't pay out, I have a way to pay for it.

If he will still be in pain even after the op, the worst decision will have to be made. I'm really really hoping it won't be that. I don't care if he's unsound, he can retire and I'll get him a companion from the sspca or something. But I don't want him in pain. He doesn't seem in pain at the moment and still manages small trots in his field when he's excited (he's in a small paddock so can't trot far regardless). He's toe dragging at the back still but that's kind of inevitable considering. He's himself though again, last weekend he was very obviously depressed and sore. Now he's back to himself, he squeals at me when he sees his bucket, he's trying to annoy the horses when they come close to him. So I don't think he's as bad as he was last Friday.

 

[Goldenstar]

Fatty was adjusted his gait he swings the leg out of course you can’t tell for sure but both the vet and Physio say it’s likely he does this because it does not hurt when he moves like that.
And he’s cheerful and canters and plays with the other horses he was very down with it at one point .
Be sure to ask the vet about arthrimed a new newish treatment in the UK while it has not made Fatty sound enough to stand up to work it’s reduced the symptoms a significant amount .
Sadly it’s not cheap .

 

[sport horse]

Sorry, but unless I have missed it you still have not said what is wrong with his stifles and what they are planning to do when they operate. It is fairly important information to enable you and anyone else to make an informed decision.

 

[Antw23uk]

I think you are mad! No way would I be putting myself under that kind of financial strain no matter how much I loved my horses!

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Sorry, but unless I have missed it you still have not said what is wrong with his stifles and what they are planning to do when they operate. It is fairly important information to enable you and anyone else to make an informed decision.

yep, this. My horse had a bilateral stifle arthroscopy in 2010. Before he went in they thought he had a meniscal tear from the way it was presenting and werent able to see anything on scans etc. when they went in they found OCD (he was 9) and werent able to do much other than a tidy up in the bad one and a quick look at the second. The op was £2.8K at a not for profit university vet hospital. He then had IRAP (about £700) which got him paddock sound-we got him back to light hacking after about a year of rehab before losing him to melanoma. Like you I wasnt worried about getting back on him but it was all under insurance. The IRAP had an immediate marked effect on his soundness.

 

[rachk89]

Sorry thought I had but been having a tough time lately so didn't explain correctly.

She said something about there being fibres in the left stifle that are basically just floating in the joint, even when stood still. She recorded it on the ultrasound and we saw pictures of it so those things will get removed from that joint.

The right one she said was crumbling slightly but not as bad as she thought so that wouldn't take much to do. It didn't have anything floating in it though, and the bones looked good on the xray. It's tissue damage he has in both.

Sorry might not be using the right terminology.

 

[rachk89]

Spoke to the vet today and she said that the surgery should get rid of the pain. She thinks because he's gotten better from last Friday when he was the worst lameness of stifle she's ever seen (her words, I didn't realise it was that bad), that he may have had inflammation in the joint which has gone down since then making him better. She also said that horses can react badly to even a small problem, and to be honest he's the type to be very sensitive to pain. He's always been like that, he'll headshake with just one tooth being slightly sharp. So I think that he will be OK after surgery. Of course there is always the possibility that once the surgeon is in there that he sees worse degradation than previously thought but hopefully not.

Also got told how much it will cost and its £1500 which is so much less than I thought. There will be hospitalisation fees of course as well that insurance won't pay, but if they won't pay anything I can afford it by selling my trailer.

Thanks for all your help and advice.

 

[Remi'sMum]

She said something about there being fibres in the left stifle that are basically just floating in the joint, even when stood still. She recorded it on the ultrasound and we saw pictures of it so those things will get removed from that joint.

The right one she said was crumbling slightly but not as bad as she thought so that wouldn't take much to do. It didn't have anything floating in it though, and the bones looked good on the xray. It's tissue damage he has in both..

Fibres? Your description sounds much like arthroscopic images of ruptured or partially ruptured cranial cruciate ligaments in dogs? But I’m not sure if these would be seen on ultrasound? (I prepare to be corrected on that) Might these be OCD lesions (cartilage fragments floating in the joint).

My understanding of cruciate ligament ruptures in horses is that this is a very serious injury. And potentially in conjunction with meniscal injury too.

OP, I think you need the vet to tell you exactly the nature of the injury she suspects, and exactly the nature of the surgery she proposes to carry out. You can’t make an informed decision unless she gives you that info first.

I hope you can figure out what’s for the best for your horse and you x

 

[AmyMay]

I think you are mad! No way would I be putting myself under that kind of financial strain no matter how much I loved my horses!

I have to second this, Op. Sorry xx

 

[Michen]

I have to second this, Op. Sorry xx

Well I totally understand OP decision, when I was faced with either (at the time deemed uninsured) surgery of 6-8k or euthanasia for B, there was no hesitation in my mind. Like OP I had an asset I could sell (lorry) to cover it. Though slightly different as this was an otherwise healthy, proven horse but argueably an even riskier surgery.

I can’t say it wasn’t even more horrendous when I lost him knowing the bill that awaited me (though less as no aftercare) but it didn’t make me regret the decision. Happily insure were amazing and paid though!

 

[rachk89]

I'm happy to go ahead with the surgery as long as it will take away his pain. He's happy right now and it would feel cruel to put him down when he's happy in life. If he retires so be it, but I think she thinks it's worse than it actually is. He's improved since she saw him, people at the stables say it looks like there's nothing wrong with him. There is but it's just not as bad as before. Still needs surgery though. I may even get my horse back to ride, so it's a chance I'm willing to take.

 

[gunnergundog]

My advice would be to:

1. Inform your insurance company NOW if you haven't already done so.
2. Find out from your vet who will be performing the operation if not someone in house.
3. Get the vet/surgeon to write a report of current status and proposed action and submit to the insurers BEFORE comitting to anything. (Ensure they include all post-op care such as IRAP, laser etc etc.)

I, personally, would also want this report to help my understanding of what is going on so that I could do some research to evaluate likely success of subjecting my horse to such a procedure. Perhaps it's lost in the translation somewhere but I'm still not clear as to what the precise problem is.

You refer to 'fibres' in your post above. Someone has suggested these could be cruciate ligament fibres. I would hazard a guess they could also be villi due to synovial proliferation. They could be other things as well, but I would want to know what we are dealing with as this will be a predictor of success. You also say something in the opposite limb is crumbling.....what is crumbling though? Bone, meniscus, cartilage?

Also, be aware that post stifle surgery you need to keep your horse very lean to avoid stress on what is the largest joint in his body. If he is retired and not up to work you may want to think about how you will achieve this and still keep him happy. (Think there is a thread running at the mo about someone with this predicament.....could be worth a read.)

Stifles are an absolute b*stard to deal with. I wish you and your horse the very best of luck but please make sure you have your eyes wide open with regards to the journey you are starting. Sadly, for my horse it did not have a happy ending.

 

[ycbm]

I have to second this, Op. Sorry xx

I'm a third here. He won't know he has been deprived of a few years retired, only you will. I'm terribly afraid for you that all you will achieve is to drain your bank account and stave off the inevitable for a very short time. While also putting him through procedures that will scare him even if they cause no pain, which seems unlikely.

I also don't understand how you can possibly have been quoted £1500 to do TWO stifles. I don't know any hospital which would do one for that price, never mind both. I'd get that in writing if you don't already have it.

I've known quite a few horses with stifle problems operated on over the years. I don't know of a single success.

I'm so sorry, but I think your heart is ruling your head

 

[sport horse]

I had a horse operated on for a bone cyst in the stifle many years ago now. The horse had to do 6 months complete box rest, followed by walking in hand for gradually longer periods. During this walking she kicked one person unconcious and ended up having to be sedated daily. We are a professional yard and we are in a position to ensure that nothing (and mean absolutely NOTHING) moved a whisker while we were walking her. Everything was done to the book.

The outcome after all this care and considerable expense was a permanently lame horse.

I would never do it again.

 

[happyclappy]

I was quoted for my mare five years ago. It was in excess of £20,000 for one stifle.

 

[Theocat]

I'm happy to go ahead with the surgery as long as it will take away his pain. He's happy right now and it would feel cruel to put him down when he's happy in life. If he retires so be it, but I think she thinks it's worse than it actually is. He's improved since she saw him, people at the stables say it looks like there's nothing wrong with him. There is but it's just not as bad as before. Still needs surgery though. I may even get my horse back to ride, so it's a chance I'm willing to take.

Please make sure you get a complete picture from your vet of the aftercare required. It requires box rest and minimal movement for long periods and is no fun for the horse, or the owner, so bear in mind it isn't just the expense that is going to take a toll on you. I don't want to be negative, but please don't underestimate what the next six or twelve months will be like, especially if you're also in debt as a result.

 

[Auslander]

I was quoted for my mare five years ago. It was in excess of £20,000 for one stifle.

You what?? I'm assuming that's a typo! £2k I would expect. £20k is about 4 times what most of the horses in the UK are worth

 

[Goldenstar]

I asked the lady who helps on Sundays yesterday what she thought Fattys stifle Op would have cost .The answer was around 3k for the op that’s one stifle .

 

[AandK]

I was quoted for my mare five years ago. It was in excess of £20,000 for one stifle.

Were they going to gold plate it for you?! That has to be a typo..

 

[Mariposa]

I had a quote for a polo pony three years ago at around £3k. We didn't proceed as they was no guarantee it would fix the issue, the pony was only slightly lame after a flexion test ( we only found the issue when she was vetted when we were trying to sell her.) I ended giving her away to a friend's mother as a field companion, such a waste of a good pony but that's horses isn't it? She is very happy by all accounts ( don't think she ever loved polo anyway!)