Still head in walk - what am I doing wrong?

SpottedCat

SpottedCat

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Ok, been doing a week of walk work this week and he has been very inconsistent in the contact.

I know it is not back tack or teeth as all have been done in the last two weeks.

I have my reins at a consistent length, and am either holding a firmer contact by squeezing with little finger and one above it when he resists, immediately relaxing them when he gives, coupled with a single squeeze or kick, then waiting for him to give before relaxing the fingers. He is getting plenty of chance to stretch as I am letting him go long and low etc. Mirrors in the school indicate he is tracking up, and he certainly feels forward, but he is fussing with the bit - he has always chomped on it, but he is sort of flicking his nose back and forwards.

He is in a grakle and a KK lozenge loose ring snaffle. If I use just a cavesson then the results in dressage tests are me 7 or 8 for riding, him 4 or 5 for submission - put on grakle/flash and he gets 7 or 8 for submission too. Bear in mind before I got him 2 years ago he was ridden in draw reins if he was schooled at all and when I first got him the wall was what we used to stop!

Any exercises I can do to improve this, or any suggestions about what I am doing wrong that is making him so inconsistent?
 
If he is fussing I would think that he is not in front of the leg enough- get some spurs on and jolly well make sure that he is in front of the leg- take up a good contact and push your hands right forwards- so that he goes forward from the leg and pushes his nose out into a soft hand. Wont happen if the engine is not coming through though. This can then be re-enforced with lots of lateral work in walk using seatbone aids and not so much leg aids. Again using spurs when needed to make sure he is off the leg.
 
You have confirmed my gut reaction - he is a lazy toad in walk! (LEC will confirm having sat on him!). I don't have this problem in trot or canter - he is heavier but consistent in those gaits which is lack of self-carriage on his part which will take time to get anyway. My gut instinct was he was not forward enough but usually when he is not forward enough he is not tracking up and he deffo is at the moment.

Right, I will be meaner!
 
Or you could come and ride him...
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God I am crap on the flat!
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No you are not crap! He's a big strong lad and I think that he knows that!
Would love to come and see him anyway- LEC is long overdue for a visit from me so I am hoping that I will be in your direction soon!
 
Do! Then you can ride him and I can marvel!
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I am determined to improve the flatwork this winter. He is not so determined IMO...
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PMSL!! I've a feeling that I will be tiny on him but I will try!
He is capable of doing some really fab tests that horse- I hope that he starts trying harder soon-the cocky bugger!
 
He is ridiculously lazy in walk. Having to pony club boot him to walk around the lorry park at a show where he should be buzzing proves this!!
 
You can't be tinier than me! I am only 5 foot and a bit.....

He is perfectly capable, he is just hindered by his rider, seriously, I am getting some intensive training in this winter - all xmas presents are funds towards me being sent to dressage boot camp! Plus am going to have some lessons on a schoolmaster...
 
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He is ridiculously lazy in walk. Having to pony club boot him to walk around the lorry park at a show where he should be buzzing proves this!!

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Why is this? Is it me or is he just inherently lazy in walk?! Are some horses just lazy in walk?

He is never buzzing at shows though. on the whole he is much more ridable at shows than at home as at shows he does not argue at all!
 
My horse nods her heard in walk, not on a long rein but when I pick up the contact. She has a big walk and finds it hard to step through from behind when I collect it up a bit. I have to make make her deeper and really infront of my leg. by using my seat and the odd flick of the whip - I found insisting on this out on a hack was easier at first as she was more inclined to be more forward then. I think it took me about a month to get this right initially, still have the odd head bobbing moments though.
 
Having a very similar problem, but i def think mine is teeth related.
Hes desperate to jog/trot he hates walking with a passion and is on a real mission atm.

But the sounds of it, its similar to winston who can be a bit lazy in his walk also and frequently drops behind the leg.
 
Good luck with Snoops!

B is forever dropping behind my leg on the flat (no such issues jumping funnily enough
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), so I think it is deffo that.

He had a full MOT during his hols - back man, farrier, dentist and saddler all the the space of 2 weeks - arrrgh! Mind you, at least I know it is not that!
 
I always think walk is the hardest pace to get right because it has less momentum than trot/canter. Watch the top dressage riders when they come back to walk they always look terrified and lots of their horses don't walk well. As you working his walk as well as forward think of relaxtion across is back to make sure he doesn't start to shuffle. Walking over poles on the ground can help to get him to stretch. Use lots of poles, lines of poles 12/14, raised poles, single poles. Make sure to get the walk striding correct for the poles to keep his rhythm. Transitions in and out of walk will also help get his hind end under him, lateral work, TOTF, rein back etc
 
Sienna is incredibly lazy in walk. I have to kick her all the way up the road as often as not when we go out on our hacks, then she power walks all the way home.
The only thing I have to watch is that she is actually tracking up. Infact when she's being lazy she is overtracking more & coming home she's not working at all.
 
Do you do any hill work? I'm a great believer in this. Also i find going round school in walk is so boring, Do you do any hacking, roadwork?

Also very good lis ots of transition but instant ones and keep them guessing which ones, also moving with paces aswell but at walk i feel ipod would be required
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Ah yes, we have that too - beach donkey out on hacks, power walk home!

I am conscious of him not working through quite right hence using the mirrors - thought I have cracked it when he was finally actually tracking up...but seems not. Why is flatwork so hard?
 
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Do you do any hill work? I'm a great believer in this. Also i find going round school in walk is so boring, Do you do any hacking, roadwork?

Also very good lis ots of transition but instant ones and keep them guessing which ones, also moving with paces aswell but at walk i feel ipod would be required
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Yes, I do hill work when I box across the A38, or in the fields but those are smaller hills. Hack all the time, two or 3 times a week in summer, only at weekends or v occasionally in the week in winter as too dark. Roadwork and off road mix as have fields to ride round and a bridleway. He's only been back in work a week so not introducing hill work just yet - will be doing so after next couple of weeks when he has got back into trot and canter work. I do billions of transitions as I was always taught that unless riding through a dressage test you should never go down a full side of the school without doing something, whether that's a transition, circle, change within the pace, shoulder fore etc etc etc. I aim for hill work twice a month.

Schooling in walk in an arena is dull, but if you work full time, horse is only in walk work and is miles away from home then in the evenings there isn't much choice! Last night the traffic was so bad it took me an hour and 20 mins to do the 20 miles to the yard - usually a 30min journey at the weekend and 40mins after work! So I am a bit hampered by that too.

he came back into work last Sat, hacked sat and sun, school mon and tues, hack weds, school thurs, walker fri and sat (twice on sat as has to stay in due to hunt but that is another gripe altogether!) and will hack on Sun, so I do try and keep it varied.

Trot work starts on Sunday so that will make things a bit more exciting all round.
 
i think you've got to teach him to soften the jaw and drop the poll first. this is best done in walk anyway, because you can correct immediately and gently, feel every nuance, and the horse's balance won't be shifting, nor will the rider's! however it's very hard to explain, took my (incredibly patient) trainer a lot of sessions to teach me the feel of it, so that i can now teach it to a horse. i like to teach it from a soft, relaxed walk, i don't make them march around into the contact until they know what contact i want, which is the first step! hope that makes sense.
 
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i think you've got to teach him to soften the jaw and drop the poll first. this is best done in walk anyway, because you can correct immediately and gently, feel every nuance, and the horse's balance won't be shifting, nor will the rider's! however it's very hard to explain, took my (incredibly patient) trainer a lot of sessions to teach me the feel of it, so that i can now teach it to a horse. i like to teach it from a soft, relaxed walk, i don't make them march around into the contact until they know what contact i want, which is the first step! hope that makes sense.

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OK - so how (in words of one syllable!) do I do that?! Or rather what should I be doing to achieve it, as I may be doing that anyway
 
i think you have just described working full time and winter!! I'm in switch off mode and hopefully will just do little schooling but after crimb defo going to crack on with my flatwork but that also so i don't get to bored aswell

You're very lucky, i have no facilities (but i love yard) so winter is schooling on road with mother taking there darl-ling to school
 
umm, it is really hard to convey in words now, rather than while watching it happen.
okay, the idea is that you ask the horse very gently to give to the hand. keeping inside hand contact still and light but moving gently with horse, as that is the hand that just stays for him to trust, you engage lightly with inside leg and givetakegive with outside rein, gently. it is a soft and gentle persistence, going large, circling if necessary. if contact gets too strong, soften and start again, you decide on how much contact. praise the moment the horse gives at the jaw, gently mouthes, softens at poll. it is a feel in the hand, a very light change in the horse's allowing it through, you will feel a slight block disappear from the jaw or behind the ears, and the horse just start to let the aids through, with no tension.
sometimes it is best to soften very slightly with inside hand to reward when the horse gives, at others this just confuses the horse and it's better to keep the same contact on the inside and just give with the outside hand. it's just a case of gentle exploration and feel, learning about each other's responses. for the horse it's a bit "if i do this, will she do that... oh, she does that, okay, that's nice" kind of thing!
doesn't matter if horse flexes a little too much laterally to begin with, as long as he starts getting the idea of softening to the hand and accepting the inside rein contact, without actually turning his body to follow his head, hope this makes sense.
you should be able to go down the long side on inside rein contact without horse needing outside rein input to keep him going straight and not circling inwards.
let me know how it goes!
this teaches a horse to have true self-carriage, not helped-carriage, and always with a soft, light inside rein, because "the inside hand acts like a handbrake on the inside hindleg".
this is all my wonderful German trainer's system (he trained with Neindorff), not some crackpot thing i've dreamt up!
you end up with a horse which totally trust the inside hand, and listens to the outside hand, and legs, for instruction. so, say in a stressful comp situation, the horse stays calm because he always knows the inside hand is there, constant, comfortable, reassuring.
let me know how it goes...
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Ok, I do a fair amount of that - flexing inside and outside both on a long side and on a circle without falling in/going crooked/drifting. So I guess it is just time and more forwards - will keep trying!
 
Have you tried a drop noseband ? I had a youngster that was just the same and found he was fighting the flash more than the contact but had the same submission issues (LACK OF.... )with just a cavesson !! The drop suited him perfectly tho
 
Haven't tried a drop, primarily coz I don't have one! The grakle is brill for him, like it a lot, but if I can beg borrow or steal a drop too then I will try that!

Kerilli - despite my youthful appearance, I am old enough to have used drops extensively before they went out of fashion, back in the days when all I can remember using was either a drop or a cavesson, so I too cringe at all the badly fitted ones
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I've a load of drops, feel free to come and get one to try if you'd like to.

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As I am a) lazy and b) away with work on corporate boringness a lot in the next couple of weeks could I persuade you to bring one to the pub? If we ever get a date that is!!

I have a feeling changing the noseband won't actually make me a better rider so will not make that much difference, so am not in any great rush...
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