Stomach lining in droppings, cause?

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Ellietotz

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Not my horse, thankfully!!
A lady who has her elderly horse near mine says her horse has stomach lining in his droppings every now and then and I was curious to know why this could be as I'm not sure her vet has done an awful lot finding out either.
It started a year a go, she wormed him and a few days later, he stopped eating his feeds and looked really uncomfortable. That was when she saw quite a lot of what seemed to be stomach lining in his droppings. He is about 28 I think, he can't chew anymore, he still grazes but he pulls the grass up and drops it after sort of chewing on it for a couple of minutes. He gets 4 large feeds a day, from memory I think he gets Veteran Vitality, Speedibeet and soaked grass nuts.

She had the vet out who just prescribed steroid tablets at about 40 a day. He did get better and started eating again. He is extremely underweight and dropped more before he was given the steroids after being wormed. From Spring, she started weaning him off and got right down to 10 tablets a day without problems then all of a sudden he relapsed and started getting lots of stomach lining in his droppings again so he has gone straight back on them at a high dose.

What could be causing this? He gets a very large tub of mash at around 6pm which he eats a fair amount of but he leaves some and goes back to it, although it is probably all gone by about 8pm and his next feed isn't until 10:30am the next day. Could it be because he can't eat anything during the night and is strained? I think she said he usually only has around 4 piles of droppings a day which isn't a lot. She has never had him scoped for ulcers but her vet didn't advise that it was needed.

Would be interesting to know if anyone else knows of this!
 
I'd have thought tapeworms, too. I used to handle intestine regularly and it's actually quite hard to separate the mucosa (the lining) from the rest of it, but I can well believe that she'd think it was lining if she was seeing tapeworm.

Otherwise, if vet also thinks it IS lining, then I'd say it was polyps (from submucosal lipomas) and she should be thinking of making the call, especially if steroids helped, as these would have an effect through slowing growth and easing inflammation (and therefore passage of droppings).
 
Agree with Tiddlypom, if it occurred a few days after worming I would assume it was worms coming out in the dung rather than stomach lining. Could you get them to do a worm count, just to be sure?
 
I think I know what the OP means, I had a horse do it once. It looks like the skin off the inside of your mouth, only there's lots of it, like a shed snakeskin.

I have seen it after harsh worming, I've no idea what would cause it in a horse all the time but I wouldn't think it was good :(

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I believe the vet confirmed it was stomach lining. :( He really isn't putting on much weight now despite the feeds. I'm not sure how he will make it through winter, I think she knows this but trying everything she can to help him as she has had him his whole life. Is there nothing to help this now other than the steroids?
 
Sounds like he isn't getting enough nutrition, regardless of what he is being fed.
If it really is stomach lining, I imagine that he must in be pain..... also how does she/the vet know that it is only stomach lining and not part of the lining of the intestine? All nutrients are absorbed through the walls of the intestine, as the food passess through - he won't be able to digest much if this is happening.

OP, with the best will in the world, I fear your friend is trying too hard for this horse, and isn't being as kind as she thinks she is......
 
This does sound very strange but if a vet has actually diagnosed stomach lining then far be it from me to disagree. However I wonder if it's actually mucus around the droppings my horse has this a couple of times when he has been out all day hunting and has not drunk or eaten enough. I did look it up and apparently the body coats droppings in mucus if they have been there a while .
 
spacefaer said:
Sounds like he isn't getting enough nutrition, regardless of what he is being fed.
If it really is stomach lining, I imagine that he must in be pain..... also how does she/the vet know that it is only stomach lining and not part of the lining of the intestine? All nutrients are absorbed through the walls of the intestine, as the food passess through - he won't be able to digest much if this is happening.

OP, with the best will in the world, I fear your friend is trying too hard for this horse, and isn't being as kind as she thinks she is......
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Hmm, not sure if stomach or intestinal lining actually. He seems somewhat happy in himself but I'm not sure if you gave him all the food in the world that he'd put the weight back on now and it's likely he is still in some sort of pain. His droppings, other than the lining, are all tiny round balls, firm, not dry or sloppy but just not much of them.
 
irishdraft said:
This does sound very strange but if a vet has actually diagnosed stomach lining then far be it from me to disagree. However I wonder if it's actually mucus around the droppings my horse has this a couple of times when he has been out all day hunting and has not drunk or eaten enough. I did look it up and apparently the body coats droppings in mucus if they have been there a while .
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She said it looks sort of stringy, like torn bits of skin. Does the mucus look similar?
 
ihatework said:
Still sounds like potential tapeworm - google picture attached.
Either way, doesn’t sound like the horse is thriving
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I haven't seen it myself so couldn't say. She just said it was stringy and looked like skin. I'm not sure she will make the call just yet, I just hoped if there was something else she could do to help him. :(
 
Presumably she tested for worms before she wormed him? I have always been advised to give something like Protexin or Pink Mash to help the digestive system recover from the harshness of worming and re-balance it and I would certainly do that for an elderly horse that I had to worm.
 
I suspect that it is mainly due to how little fibre he is taking through his system which is slowing everything down as it passes through 4 droppings in 24 hours is very little , whatever it is he is unlikely to improve unless he can take in more food in the form of fibre, possibly some linseed which is good for many reasons and maybe some more water on board to encourage more movement.
Going from 8pm to 10.30am with no food is not helping, I would be increasing that until he still had some left in the morning, a full tub of sloppy grassnuts left last thing each evening alongside his normal feed would be useful if she is going to keep trying but I think it may just be a matter of time before he gets a serious colic and things come to a head, it is never easy to make the call when in many ways they are bright and happy but we all know how quickly things can change.
 
ihatework said:
Still sounds like potential tapeworm - google picture attached.
Either way, doesn’t sound like the horse is thriving
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If it's what I've seen it doesn't look like that at all. Think colourless thin skin, like wet tissue paper, some curled up on itself as if it's been turning inside out and some more obviously having been at one time part of a tube.

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I had a pony do this with enteritis - the vet gave us some powder for his feed but he coliked and was PTS 48 hours later. I don't think it is actually the mucosa but the gut produces a mass of additional mucus which passes out, dries really quickly and looks like shed skin. I can't for the life of me remember what it was we were given (the time was a horrible blur) but I do rememebr that it was horribly expensive and came from America. Thankfully they agreed to buy back the barely used jar! Pony was at least 32 and had had cushings for over 10 years. It was not fair to keep him going so I didn't.
 
To clarify a bit more, what I'm talking about doesn't just look like shed skin, it was shed skin. I picked it out and pulled it around to check what it was.

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Ellietotz said:
Hmm, not sure if stomach or intestinal lining actually. He seems somewhat happy in himself but I'm not sure if you gave him all the food in the world that he'd put the weight back on now and it's likely he is still in some sort of pain. His droppings, other than the lining, are all tiny round balls, firm, not dry or sloppy but just not much of them.
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Mucousy dropping which are small and round are an indication the droppings are staying too long in the large intestine. This can be due to numerous reasons, and can also be a warning sign for impaction colic.
 
Ellietotz said:
She said it looks sort of stringy, like torn bits of skin. Does the mucus look similar?
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Yes it looks exactly like that. I poo pick everyday so saw it the day after hunting a couple of times and looked it up . My horse is absolutely fine but he used to get stressed about being out hunting for the day so didn't eat or drink for quite a period of time so I think that was the cause .
 
Is there a reason he is getting so little feed. With the best will in the world the horse is going to be in poor condition if he has so little to eat.
I used to look after an old gelding who could not eat hay, luckily he was ok ish with fairly long grass, at night he had 3 full buckets of well soaked grass nuts, speediest and veteran mix, he looked good until his last 6 weeks when the weight fell off him, he was diagnosed with a large tumour (bowls or stomach I am not sure) and was pts. He did well on that diet for a few years prior though.
 
twiggy2 said:
Is there a reason he is getting so little feed. With the best will in the world the horse is going to be in poor condition if he has so little to eat.
I used to look after an old gelding who could not eat hay, luckily he was ok ish with fairly long grass, at night he had 3 full buckets of well soaked grass nuts, speediest and veteran mix, he looked good until his last 6 weeks when the weight fell off him, he was diagnosed with a large tumour (bowls or stomach I am not sure) and was pts. He did well on that diet for a few years prior though.
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I don't know unfortunately. If he were mine, I'd be doing that too but he's not. :(
 
Ellietotz said:
I believe the vet confirmed it was stomach lining. :( He really isn't putting on much weight now despite the feeds. I'm not sure how he will make it through winter, I think she knows this but trying everything she can to help him as she has had him his whole life. Is there nothing to help this now other than the steroids?
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If vet has confirmed, then the horse won't be able to take in nutrition and will almost certainly have ulcers colonised by opportunistic bacteria (mucositis). Steroids will help to an extent, but organ failure will follow malnutrition. Terrible time for her, but she needs the vet to be blunt if she won't listen to friends. :-(
 
ycbm said:
If it's what I've seen it doesn't look like that at all. Think colourless thin skin, like wet tissue paper, some curled up on itself as if it's been turning inside out and some more obviously having been at one time part of a tube.

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Yes, mucosa does curl up on itself when it's separated from the submucosa. It's an absolute sod when trying to handle it with forceps and scalpel!! It's a pinky beige colour, rather than the ivory white of tapeworm.
 
When I found something like this in my mare's poo, it was the day after hunting and she hadn't eaten much at all and had hunted all day. Its supposed to be mucus or something similar. Supposed to come out when their food has taken too long in the stomach I think. She did have ulcers as well - never seen it in a horse since.
 
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