Stopping a horse napping backwards... sounds easy but!? Help!?

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Switchthehorse

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Ok so my mare when she has a 'head explosion' moment has the habit of reversing backwards. Sometimes at speed, sometimes in slow motion, but always its impossible to stop her. It is generally if she panics (at speed) or is refusing/napping (slow motion). She can walk backwards for literally ages if she is being stubborn (eg xc last night won't go near a fence, probably reversed 100 yards! Slow mo walk but steady!)

Totally get that you are supposed to get them going ANY direction other than backwards, and have spent many a time with people yelling 'turn her, turn her' etc

My problem is simples - I cannot turn her, I can crank her head round so her nose is touching my leg, and she can still go straight backwards, freak of nature!?

Have tried flexing her one way then the other. Have tried with head on knee/head on her bottom, etc. She just won't turn and just keeps going!!

Any hints or tips on (I know this sounds stupid!!?) but how to turn your horse if reversing?

Normal caveat, am not a numpty, been riding 30+ years, have regular lessons, she is not in pain, saddle etc all checked, teeth done yada yada :)

Thanks!!
 
I have exactly the same problem, she also likes to reverse into path of oncoming traffic - i'd love to see what people have to suggest! with my girl sometimes she will turn when asked but most of the time wont hmmm bloody horses!
 
OP - I can't help you, but I am very interested in the replies - I've got a mare who is very similar - I've spent about £10k getting scans done, treatment for this that and the other, endless physios, vets and hospital trips and dentists. Mine is in no pain that they can find, physios and saddlers say tack is fine, but mine also does this. Added to which if I try to smack mine, she goes vertical and then does a rodeo sideways and backwards which I can't stop! What really bugs me is that I can long-rein this mare anywhere, but she loses confidence when I get on board and I don't know why - like you I'm no numpty, I've had nappers and rearers in the past, but this ones really "speshul" if you get my drift!
 
must be a mare thing lol as mine does it too, but i am 'lucky' in that she hates reining back under normal circumstances, so as soon as she goes in reverse, i ask for more reverse lol, she gets a huff on and goes forward:D
might be worth a try , i was a bit 'hmmmm' when her old sharer told me to try it but it worked and it's how i've dealt with her ever since:)
 
I would be looking at teaching her to disengage her hindquarters - first on the ground and then while ridden, the reliance should be less on the rein aids, and more on the leg, with her able to step her hind leg (say left side) under herself in front of her (say right) hind leg. The more she is able to yield in this manner on the ground, the more able you will be able to ask for it while riding. i use this yield when on a young or out of work horse when lunging or riding - to get their attention back. If they are looky or spooky, if about to buck, if not transitioning well up or down, a leg yield where they step their hind leg under themselves makes them stop, think take their mind off whatever else. I used this on a rescue mare that had an extreme bucking issue to good effect, once taught by a NH instructor.

If you can get an NH or IH instructor in they will nip this in the bud in no time flat and give you the tools to deal with this - sometimes you just need someone else to be there and take you through it.
 
Lets hope we get some answers :)

Holly Hocks - if its any consolation have been told a number of times never to use a stick on her as this would lead to what you describe... and that it is a genuine fear/nervousness and she doesnt trust something.. so its all about building confidence... I continue to try and do this (don't we all!!) but am interested in the mean time to work out how we can stop them running backwards when they do it!! Echo with the long lines, we are fine, but try and hack on own for example - impossible!!

Am ENDLESSLY jealous and frustrated that friends horses just go anywhere/jump anything etc... I appear to own the biggest tank of a wimp the world has ever seen!!?

Ruddy horses!!!
 
jeeve said:
I would be looking at teaching her to disengage her hindquarters - first on the ground and then while ridden, the reliance should be less on the rein aids, and more on the leg, with her able to step her hind leg (say left side) under herself in front of her (say right) hind leg. The more she is able to yield in this manner on the ground, the more able you will be able to ask for it while riding. i use this yield when on a young or out of work horse when lunging or riding - to get their attention back. If they are looky or spooky, if about to buck, if not transitioning well up or down, a leg yield where they step their hind leg under themselves makes them stop, think take their mind off whatever else. I used this on a rescue mare that had an extreme bucking issue to good effect, once taught by a NH instructor.

If you can get an NH or IH instructor in they will nip this in the bud in no time flat and give you the tools to deal with this - sometimes you just need someone else to be there and take you through it.
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Thanks for the post, sadly have tried this, had Richard Maxwell out a few years ago (about other issues) and he taught me and her how to do this... and it worked for some other probs I had .. but when on board and reversing its like she is blinkered and just doesnt listen to any of my aids!? Agree though it is a very useful tool, just hasnt worked for her in this scenario...
 
Mine does the same! Isn't it funny how there all mares!! Why didn't I get a gelding! Haha. I have tried the spinning in circles which doesn't work. I will try asking for rein back and see what she does.
 
Mine is the same. I love it when people tell you it's all about schooling and teaching them to do X, Y and Z so they listen to you... all that goes out of the window when mine gets his stupid head on! Thankfully mine doesn't do it very often anymore, just occasionally he has a meltdown out hunting and will freeze/run backwards. I tried turning him, he just stands there with his head to one side biting my foot! When he runs backwards I can usually turn him, so if I can turn a full 180deg then I make him go backwards in the original direction we were headed in. It usually takes him a few seconds to realise he's still going where I wanted, just backwards, and he gives up. If he's having a frozen moment, the only thing that works is actually to give him a big pat, push his head back to the front with my hand and give him another pat and he'll walk on. Sounds daft but it's the only thing that works. Must admit I've also been known to jump off onto the ground and lead him on for a few strides. I know people say not to but it always resolves the problem, and it's easy enough to find something to get on from (and I have a 17hh horse so if I can get back on that, no one else should struggle!!).

I also found that giving him magnesium oxide daily helps (not one of the expensive branded supplements, just plain magox) - he can still be sharp but he doesn't overreact to things now.
 
What happens if you just wait her out (if it's safe, of course!)? So she goes into reverse, you sit and wait until she gets bored and then once she has stopped, don't let her move until you say to?
 
Have you tried a "wip-***"? Basically a soft rope with a sort of pom-pom on either end. If she stops, before she can step back you flip the rope either side of her shoulder, this is often enough to shock a napping horse into hopping forward. Dont know if its the shock of something different, or that they catch sight of the ends of the rope and move forward away from it, but it does work! Had this problem with my mare, although she would go backwards then just plant! Wip-*** def saves legs, use of whip and lots of frustration!
 
Switchthehorse said:
Thanks for the post, sadly have tried this, had Richard Maxwell out a few years ago (about other issues) and he taught me and her how to do this... and it worked for some other probs I had .. but when on board and reversing its like she is blinkered and just doesnt listen to any of my aids!? Agree though it is a very useful tool, just hasnt worked for her in this scenario...
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You need to transfer it to a ridden situation, have her somewhere she is happy and not napping and really work on moving her in all directions, can you move her shoulders over? I just repeat, repeat, repeat all sorts of different sideways movements, I am not dressage correct or anything, I don't have a clue, I'm just asking him to cross his legs over. I always aim to get them as responsive and agile as possible. It really shows to me, I haven't ridden my gelding for months as he's been off lame, but I've been riding other people's horses etc. I got back on him for the first time a few weeks ago, and I cannot believe how responsive and agile he is, he'll move his shoulders over from a light touch. He used to also run backwards, since I've taken full control of him laterally etc he has never ever done it.

I would teach it on the ground first then transfer it to ridden. Then if you get into a situation where you feel her thinking about napping, immediately ask questions, move her legs about, make her think. Is it at all feasible for you to have another session with Richard because I'm sure he'd be able to help you transfer it to your ridden work.
 
Yes, another reversing mare here! The turning circling/didn't work for me either, the circles gradually got further away from the object of fear! The only thing that worked was turning her away at the first step back and getting off, then I would lead her past the scariness, get back on and away we went. It is working for us as she hardly ever does it now (touch wood). I considered keeping her going backwards until she got bored, but she would go for ever and I did get the feeling that she might rear . It's a case of keeping things calm and stress free to avoid escalation of the behaviour.

I think it's worked for us because she doesn't really get them chance to reverse because I've defused the fear by turning her away from the scariness and because we have done a bit of join-up groundwork she trusts me and will follow me on foot.

I knnow you can't do this in the middle of xc, though! Would second the suggestion of getting an IH trainer out to help.

Michael Peace is another brilliant trainer who could help, he doesn't use any tricks or fancy headcollars, just common sense based on the indivdual horse.
 
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Another mare here who does it I'm afraid!! Always has. My most recent solution is to turn her round so she is facing home, then before she decides that's where she's going, I do 4,5,6 strides of reinback then turn her again to the direction we were going and ask to walk on (voice and leg). If not we rein back again, 6,7,8 strides etc. until she decides it's bettr to go forward. It helps if you don't have a racing heart caused by being cross/embarassed whatever!! Easier said than done I know! Good luck!
 
smokey said:
Have you tried a "wip-***"? Basically a soft rope with a sort of pom-pom on either end. If she stops, before she can step back you flip the rope either side of her shoulder, this is often enough to shock a napping horse into hopping forward. Dont know if its the shock of something different, or that they catch sight of the ends of the rope and move forward away from it, but it does work! Had this problem with my mare, although she would go backwards then just plant! Wip-*** def saves legs, use of whip and lots of frustration!
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Cant stand it, obviously the second part of the name is also considered a racist term, not one I've heard since I was a child in the dark ages!
 
Thanks for the replies keep them coming!!

Lolo - if i wait her out we can go for a full five minutes (no exaggeration) backwards round the field/down the road etc! Which isnt ideal. She literally doesnt stop.

Smokey - yes tried a w-w = explosion!

Sorry guys sounds like I am arguing with all of you and I do genuinely appreciate the input!!

LouS - yes I have done this on the ground, and have tried it in a ridden situation, it really helps if she is tense/about to panic and I can feel it coming, and has completely put an end to her spin/bolting. (she sounds such an angel doesnt she!?) The issue with the backwards thing is sometimes you have no clue it is coming, she will suddenly stop dead, and there is no way you can move her. I don't know if i can use size as an excuse as she is 17hh plus and built like a tank (IDxWB). But she just becomes dead to any aid, any leg on = go backwards or diagonally but away from the direction we are supposed to be going. Her whole body goes rigid except for her neck, which is bendable, but she still goes ruddy backwards!!

Agree that sometimes if i can get her to stop, and give her a pat, I can sometimes get her going forward again. But its IF i can get her to stop! And agree 180 degree spin would be a good idea, but thats my problem - i just cant get her to turn!
 
Oh also worth a try, I've found it really makes some horses react, just smack the loose end of your reins quickly either side of their shoulder, but be careful because I've done it on things that have really shot forward. I've also done it on things that haven't reacted at all though.

ETA just read your reply, is getting Richard out again not an option, I really think he'd be able to help, this is the sort of thing he deals with.
 
LaurenBay said:
Mine does the same! Isn't it funny how there all mares!! Why didn't I get a gelding! Haha. I have tried the spinning in circles which doesn't work. I will try asking for rein back and see what she does.
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Nope got a gelding who does it under pressure but hardly at nowadays.

He is not scared as such as when he genuinely afraid he will take reassurance and walk on, but his body language is different to fear. It's like he gets blocked and once I get past the spot he'll walk on fine.

And it's not going away home either, he did it once on the way home just as I was about to turn into the farm, it was getting dark and raining and I spent about half an hour getting him past that spot. You would think the stupid animal would want to go home.

Any leg aids or whips just increases the speed backward in fact the lighter the aid the better the result.
I can turn sideways and wait it out then ask with my voice to walk. Get a few steps and stop him, wait and ask again.

I can also get off lead for about 50 yards get back on and he'll be fine but prefer not to.
 
Echo that going towards home as well

A few months ago had been out for a hack with a friend, we have an electric 5 bar gate on our drive way - drive way about 300 yards long. Anyway we are halfway up the drive so technically 'home' ie she is next to her field, friend goes through the gate but it shuts before we can. Donkey can see friend on other side of gate so calmly press gate button again but she starts to panic. Instead of trying to get through gate to be with friend who is calmly waiting for us 6 ft away we reverse all the way back down the drive (c. 200 yards) and end up pretty much on the road - away from home!? Had to get off in the end, was nothing I can do!!

Re getting Richard out, my biggest issue is I cant recreate it for love or money!! So chances are £400 later she would have been an angel for 5 hours, we would do all the ground work I already do with her and it would appear like nothing is wrong!?
 
I have a gelding that does this- although not so much nowadays. We've shot backwards down a near vertical hill- managed to spin him around as its not a hill I'd ride down forwards but i certainly wash;t going down backward:eek:

And most recently at Cricklands going up the slop to collecting ring then straight back down the slope backward straight into a solid picnic bench, sort of bum cartwheeled over into a standing position- I don't know how we did it..... and as per usual he wandered straight back up as if to say' i don't know what you're all worried about?'

He seems to do it less now he realised it doesn't unsettle me and once he's finished his strop I'll make him do it anyway

Good luck and I'll be watching
 
Switchthehorse said:
Echo that going towards home as well

A few months ago had been out for a hack with a friend, we have an electric 5 bar gate on our drive way - drive way about 300 yards long. Anyway we are halfway up the drive so technically 'home' ie she is next to her field, friend goes through the gate but it shuts before we can. Donkey can see friend on other side of gate so calmly press gate button again but she starts to panic. Instead of trying to get through gate to be with friend who is calmly waiting for us 6 ft away we reverse all the way back down the drive (c. 200 yards) and end up pretty much on the road - away from home!? Had to get off in the end, was nothing I can do!!

Re getting Richard out, my biggest issue is I cant recreate it for love or money!! So chances are £400 later she would have been an angel for 5 hours, we would do all the ground work I already do with her and it would appear like nothing is wrong!?
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He helps with ridden issues as well, he's been on my boy, he is brilliant and at the end of the phone if you begin to struggle after he's gone. I can't recommend him enough for things like this, it always makes so much sense the way he does things, I wouldn't hesitate to have him again with an issue like this, although I do find methods I've used for one horse will also work on another.
 
Switchthehorse said:
Re getting Richard out, my biggest issue is I cant recreate it for love or money!! So chances are £400 later she would have been an angel for 5 hours, we would do all the ground work I already do with her and it would appear like nothing is wrong!?
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That's the problem, mine does it randomly, is absolutely fine if I'm on the ground and will quietly follow me with a smug expression on his face and usually won't do it if there is someone else on the ground as a passer helped us out once by leading him forward for a few steps which unblocked him.
 
I have a gelding that does this - he is 26 now and I've had him 18 years! he can STILL do it! The reason i probably think he doesn't do it as much is probably because he doesn't get ridden as much.

I think it was last year though we had a little 'disagreement' about going up the (steep) hill away from the stables. He decided he didn't like something and started reversing. He will also spin. He too can just get faster and faster so I do what I have always been told and I make him reverse then stop, if he stops i then ask him to walk on. If he still reverses i ask him to reverse again! Release the pressure asking to reverse and see if he stops and ask for walk on again.

It can take ages. On this particular day, he spun round so what did I do? I decided to ask him to reverse UP the hill so in the direction i wanted to go but just in reverse. He would stop, I'd turn him back round, ask for forward and he still reversed so we kept repeating until he eventually decided it was much easier to walk forwards up the hill than backwards!

I have to admit I have got off in the past because he has got me that angry and I have lead him past whatever the issue was then got back on again once I'd calmed down! Lol

I have to use his reverse though when passing any large vehicles as he cannot walk forwrads past them, he panics, spins round and the only way to get past is to reverse!
 
It really annoys me when people just say 'SMACK IT' 'HIT IT' beating a horse is not the answer and 9times out of 10 it makes it worse ( mine goes vertical if i smack him for napping) have you tried reversing her in the direction you want to go, rather than trying to make her go forwards which is what she does not want to do, turn her round and make her walk backwards to where you want to go, your still able to go where you want on your hack and after a while she will get fed up and turn round and walk on (the time it takes for her to turn around will reduce the more you do it)
 
Brilliant posts everyone! I have this with a gelding (!) he did its couple of times when I first got him, and it seemed to be when he knew there was a big downhill coming up. Had all checks, all fine and he hasn't done it since, until, last sat when he did it leaving our drive when going out with another horse, I hoped off ( as the other horse is a youngster so I didn't want him learning any 'tricks' ) led him 20 paces and then he was as good as gold! The one thing I've noticed is that it happens when he is due for shoeing, so I'm not sure whether it may be something to do with a worry of slipping / not feeling as stable? I'll keep you posted anyway! As other say, he shoots off backwards with no regard for what's behind (and that can be terrifying!!) sometimes I can get him to go forwards, but if it's in a more dangerous place there isn't always time to even try for long, we can go other directions (not back towards home) so its not traditional napping if you like. He's perfect in the school, it's just these odd rush backwards. I'm on the hunt for a god instructor currently, but again I'm not sure how they can help correct this issue. I'll let you know anyway! Good To know it happens to others too!
 
Ps agree with the 'smack it' advice annoyance too, a smack results in backwards quicker in mine and clearly does not help!! You can also tell i think when you're on a horse as to whether a smack is the right thing to do or not. I will try the reverse reversing tip though next to e it happens. Always happens to me when random passerby is around too, Ho hum.
 
ellie_e said:
It really annoys me when people just say 'SMACK IT' 'HIT IT' beating a horse is not the answer and 9times out of 10 it makes it worse ( mine goes vertical if i smack him for napping) have you tried reversing her in the direction you want to go, rather than trying to make her go forwards which is what she does not want to do, turn her round and make her walk backwards to where you want to go, your still able to go where you want on your hack and after a while she will get fed up and turn round and walk on (the time it takes for her to turn around will reduce the more you do it)
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Thanks for the post, the problem is I cant turn her!!! Thats my biggest issue! So i can't reverse her in the direction she doesnt want to go as I cant get her pointing the opposite way darnit!! :)
 
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